War

DIY-HP-LED said:
Another thing is those Neptune missiles only traveled about a third of their maximum range, so there was lots of jet fuel left in the tanks. Reports said it was hit about 60 miles off the coast and if the missiles were launched inland a few miles, they would have got there fast at 600 MPH and would have had plenty of fuel to add to the mess.
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I can only do this by analogy with block C Harpoon, a largely similar missile. It consumes 780 lb of fuel per hour but has a flight time to max range of 12 minutes (120 mph max range at 600 mph) which requires 156 pounds of fuel. This is a bit more available energy than the 330-pound warhead of Neptune, but half that fuel will be gone. Being generous and imagining that Neptune has similar range but a less efficient sustainer engine, half its fuel remains so ~100 pounds. It would have to be a bullseye on the magazine for that burning fuel to make a difference. But hey, that could have happened! The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and Moskva certainly took it full in the face.
 
Trump wasn't the only one who liked gold toilets, the connections to Manafort and Trump.
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Ukraine Seizes Assets Of Putin Ally In Crackdown On Russian Corruption

 
Maybe America could extradite Manafort to Ukraine, I'm sure they can come up with something. Though perhaps Uncle Sam isn't done with the bastard yet.
 
Moflow said:
A lot of pollution?
An artificial reef?
Lol
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Depending on where she went down, it could be shallow enough to recover missiles from her, if she landed upright and say Ukraine took Crimea by summer. The thing is full of AA missiles and anti ship missiles, plus the CIA could want to look at some things, perhaps even encryption equipment etc. The Russians might want to keep one of their subs close by! It all depends how deep she is and it's generally shallow where she was operating, if she's at 100 feet, then scuba divers could reach her easily. She would be considered a war grave however and she no doubt has dead crew aboard.
 
If the icon on the map is close to right, it should be inside Ukraine territorial waters and it's shallow there, but I don't know the exact depth of water.

If the big picture objective is to get rid of Putin and his regime in Russia, then helping the Ukrainians to break his army and eject him completely from their country while blowing up his bridge at Kerch is a way to do it, make his failure and humiliation complete. Once his army in Ukraine is broken and destroyed, he will be powerless and Ukraine will be active in Georgia and Belarus, causing as much mayhem and revolution as they can. Belarus and Ukraine could end up in a military alliance against Russia, if they too kick Vlad out and change their government, then he will have his buffer between Russia and NATO, but it will be hostile and armed to the teeth by NATO, with warehouses of arms ready to be shipped in the EU. While both Finland and Sweden will become NATO members. This is a result of Vlad's threats, weakness and having most of his army tied down in Ukraine. It's a good time for them to join NATO and both are real assets and not burdens, Vlad's atrocities in Ukraine helped move public opinion in both countries a lot.
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Ukraine War: Turkey to limit access to strait

 
DIY-HP-LED said:
Depending on where she went down, it could be shallow enough to recover missiles from her, if she landed upright and say Ukraine took Crimea by summer. The thing is full of AA missiles and anti ship missiles, plus the CIA could want to look at some things, perhaps even encryption equipment etc. The Russians might want to keep one of their subs close by! It all depends how deep she is and it's generally shallow where she was operating, if she's at 100 feet, then scuba divers could reach her easily. She would be considered a war grave however and she no doubt has dead crew aboard.
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The Russian cruiser was kind of obsolete,I love how the Russian's cram so much weaponry on their ships to make them look intimidating,their Kirov class battlecrisers are even crazier looking ,armed to the teeth,all show no go,sank by a enemy w/virtually no naval presence just another shocking outcome in a war that has left Putin so exposed he has a leaf covering his johnson.
 
Usually they talk strategy with former admirals and generals, this guy was a former sergeant, who obviously continued his education. He also appears to have a head on his shoulders and is an example of the kinds of NCOs that make our armies and navies work way better than the Russian system.
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‘A Great Turn For The Ukrainians’: Russian Warship Sinks In Black Sea

 
DIY-HP-LED said:
Usually they talk strategy with former admirals and generals, this guy was a former sergeant, who obviously continued his education. He also appears to have a head on his shoulders and is an example of the kinds of NCOs that make our armies and navies work way better than the Russian system.
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‘A Great Turn For The Ukrainians’: Russian Warship Sinks In Black Sea

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Yeah, I've seen the dude on Morning Joe,MSNBC,He's spot on and his analyses hits the nail on the head,a walking advertisement for career senior NCO's that commanders rely on spread the word and make things work
 
CCGNZ said:
The Russian cruiser was kind of obsolete,I love how the Russian's cram so much weaponry on their ships to make them look intimidating,their Kirov class battlecrisers are even crazier looking ,armed to the teeth,all show no go,sank by a enemy w/virtually no naval presence just another shocking outcome in a war that has left Putin so exposed he has a leaf covering his johnson.
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Yep, lot's of arms means lot's of ordinance, you might have been able to fire a .50 Call at close range at it and it would go off like a bomb. Just too much shit aboard, trying to do too many jobs, none of them well. There was a drone used to ID the target and possibly to deploy radar jammers or to distract them. By the time their shitty radars broke the missiles out from the shore radar clutter on a stormy night, they only had minutes to react as the cruise missiles came at them doing 10 miles a minute. They were only 60 miles offshore when struck apparently so say 4 or 5 minutes warning at the most.
 
CCGNZ said:
Yeah, I've seen the dude on Morning Joe,MSNBC,He's spot on and his analyses hits the nail on the head,a walking advertisement for career senior NCO's that commanders rely on spread the word and make things work
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An example of Russian ineptitude, they have 1 year conscripts doing maintenance on equipment, you can't train an auto mechanic or technician in a year. They also have no specialist career NCOs, guys as smart as the officers, but without a formal higher education, that do the training and run the show. So that's why their stuff is poorly maintained and breaks down, aside from massive corruption.

They are and will pay for it on the battlefield and you will see western military theory and practice in action, because the Ukrainians fight and organize like we so. The organization of forces was made for free men to use their own initiative and imaginations in defeating the enemy and it is a match made in Hell, when applied to motivated people like the Ukrainians.
 
injinji said:
I don't trust poot-poot. But I don't want the other nuclear powers to get in an arms race with cruise missiles. The all or nothing aspect of ICBM's keep folks from thinking that a nuclear exchange is winnable.
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They will do what technology will allow, for an edge, or because the other guy might. Wide spread of precision strike capabilities means places like South Korea could take North Korea and all it's artillery guns at a stroke on a first wave and follow up with a second wave on anything they missed. Drones or stealth cruise missiles could be take out the fat fuck and his nukes at the same time. While the South Korean Army took out everything in their path North to the border with switchblade killer drones and other precision munitions. They were recently even saber rattling about it and the south claimed it had everything targeted with precision weapons, all 5,000 artillery pieces dug in pointed at Seoul.

So technology will upset the traditional balance of power we had with ICBMs. Russia needs to fear revenge attacks more, if someone were to "acquire one of their tactical nukes it could easily be converted into a thermonuclear bomb of many megatons, by adding fusion fuel and modifying the design slightly. This might end up in Moscow by clandestine means, hidden there and could be detonated by a cellphone call and punching in a code. That is the true danger of nuclear proliferation, what would happen then? Vlad made many enemies and is making more every day, if he uses tactical nukes in Ukraine he will open up such a Pandora's box of future revenge.
 
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