Nute burn or Potassium Deficiency

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Clk55r1d3h

Member
Noticed for a few days now, not sure which one, i'm ruling out light burn, the tops look great. Feed athena pro nutes at 2.5ec although they recommend 3.0ec in coco w/perlite. Also, the branches have green and purple in them, not sure if that's also a problem.

Runnoff ppm: 2900-3100 (when talking to athena, they say to get the ppms real high around 5000-7000 and check for ph)
Runnoff ph: 5.7-6.0
Water/feed every other day in 5gal buckets
Growers Choice 720 LED at 85%, 2nd week of flower

Some leaves are curled up and brown and some are curled down

Any help would be appreciated, don't want to overfeed. All these symptoms look very similar.
 

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TrichDaddy

TrichDaddy

Well-Known Member
Something is not making sense here. I've never gone over 1.5 ec in coco so that seems pretty crazy they'd recommend 3.0. I haven't used those nutes but I have a very hard time believing those guys know what they're doing.

Also I think the runoff PPM line is a typo? Take a zero off each of them and they make more sense. TBH I would disregard all of that. Flush them with very weak nutes for a day or two (Like 0.2 or 0.3ec) and slowly raise it to 1.3 or 1.4 area as you think they can take it.
 
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Clk55r1d3h

Member
TrichDaddy said:
Something is not making sense here. I've never gone over 1.5 ec in coco so that seems pretty crazy they'd recommend 3.0. I haven't used those nutes but I have a very hard time believing those guys know what they're doing.

Also I think the runoff PPM line is a typo? Take a zero off each of them and they make more sense. TBH I would disregard all of that. Flush them with very weak nutes for a day or two (Like 0.2 or 0.3ec) and slowly raise it to 1.3 or 1.4 area as you think they can take it.
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Thank you for the reply, it’s not a typo. Talking to Athena they throw out crazy high numbers, and every time they say make sure the ph is right and that’s the reason for problems. I am already giving 2.5ec every other day, the coco is not drying out, so I have a hard time believing raising to 3.0 is gonna make things better. Are we pretty certain it’s nute burn?
These are salt based nutes, and searching around I found people suing 3ec from start to finish.
 
Melquides

Melquides

Active Member
Ive been running around 2.0 in hydro/quickdrain rockwool, and im running into issues. But I have other issues too, Coupled with big temp swings and what i thought was light stress. Concensus is i locked out with high EC, hoping a drop to 1.5 will help.
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
The mega-EC Athena recommendations are bizarre.

I've used many different nutes and have never (intentionally) used more than 1.5EC for any cannabis strain I've grown. This applies to the Flora Series, Floranova, Maxi, DynaGro, and Jack's 321

I believe Dr. Bugbee recommends ~1.3EC

I don't hit 3EC on my pepper plants which are much heavier feeders than cannabis.
 
potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
I would not listen to Athena; they are out of their flipping minds. Looks like Calcium lockout to me.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
I'd lower it to 1.2 and feed daily (or twice daily), and be sure to feed to plenty of runoff.
 
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Clk55r1d3h

Member
Ok thanks to all for trying to help. Lets ignore what athena says what are some safe EC numbers going forward? my tap water has 300ppm, i'm using big boy filter for chlorine. I'm assuming most feed around 1.2-1.4 ec. Also, in regards to runoff, is it suppose to be close to what i put in , higher or lower? Clearly its not what i put in at the moment.

I thought maybe i wasn't doing 3.0EC like athena says and instead 2.5EC and if i upped the nutes, deficiency would get solved. But, i have a hard time believing .5 is going to make the difference at this level. My ph looks fine, doesn't nute lockout occur because of the ph mostly? Like most of u said nute burn makes more sense.
 
TrichDaddy

TrichDaddy

Well-Known Member
Clk55r1d3h said:
doesn't nute lockout occur because of the ph mostly?
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Can be either really. Just my opinion but I wouldn't sweat ph/ec of the runoff too much. You don't need meters to work out what's happened here, and fixing it is generally straightforward (lower the ec). It's good that you've picked up the problem quickly.

What I do in a grow is start off with half or quarter strength nutes when plant is very young and then switch to that ~1.3 level once they get into rapid veg mode and onwards. More important than any static ec number or range is to observe the plants as they will show you what they want. So if I have a nice light green foliage in veg and the plant is pumping, but then slowly notice it getting darker and darker green leaves, and you no longer get that flourish of light green growth at the tips, I know to back off a little, or give it a very low ec flush to clear out the system. Some of the best growth I've seen has been while giving a flush to a plant that needs it - It's just such a relief for them.

Observation or reading the plant is a good skill to pick up because at the end of the day, different strains and even different phenos will have differing ec needs. If it helps though, I checked my runoff ec last night and it was a few ec points higher than what went in.
 
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Clk55r1d3h

Member
That makes sense. This I what I’m thinking of doing. I just flushed it once, ppms are around 2800, for tomorrow I’m thinking of getting them down to around 1000ppm or lower and finally feed them low ec. Keep going like that with Ec around 1.1 - 1.3. I’m in second week of flower, so I gotta dial this in before shit hits the fan.
 
Bakersfield

Bakersfield

Well-Known Member
Clk55r1d3h said:
Noticed for a few days now, not sure which one, i'm ruling out light burn, the tops look great. Feed athena pro nutes at 2.5ec although they recommend 3.0ec in coco w/perlite. Also, the branches have green and purple in them, not sure if that's also a problem.

Runnoff ppm: 2900-3100 (when talking to athena, they say to get the ppms real high around 5000-7000 and check for ph)
Runnoff ph: 5.7-6.0
Water/feed every other day in 5gal buckets
Growers Choice 720 LED at 85%, 2nd week of flower

Some leaves are curled up and brown and some are curled down

Any help would be appreciated, don't want to overfeed. All these symptoms look very similar.
Click to expand...
Overfed leading to lockout!
I bet your coco is salty and could use a good leaching with a low dose of nutrients.
Nutrient companies make money off of people buying more fertilizer.
Athena makes lots of money apparently.

Like others have said;
All you need is EC 1.2 with good drainage in Coco.
I've fed up to 5 times daily with great results.
I always supplement with a Cal/Mag product in coco as well.
It's cheap insurance.
 
C

Clk55r1d3h

Member
Bakersfield said:
Overfed leading to lockout!
I bet your coco is salty and could use a good leaching with a low dose of nutrients.
Nutrient companies make money off of people buying more fertilizer.
Athena makes lots of money apparently.

Like others have said;
All you need is EC 1.2 with good drainage in Coco.
I've fed up to 5 times daily with great results.
I always supplement with a Cal/Mag product in coco as well.
It's cheap insurance.
Click to expand...
I don’t have the opportunity to water that many times a day. What would u recommend for water once a day. I would do once every other day about a gal each. I can do daily 1.2ec with good runoff, as I understand that should be good enough.
 
Bakersfield

Bakersfield

Well-Known Member
Clk55r1d3h said:
I don’t have the opportunity to water that many times a day. What would u recommend for water once a day. I would do once every other day about a gal each. I can do daily 1.2ec with good runoff, as I understand that should be good enough.
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It depends how vigourous your plants are to begin with, but 1.2 is great for multiples on a drain to waste and a bit higher at once a day.
Start lower and adjust from there if all the other growing variables are in order, like light and ventilation.
 
C

Clk55r1d3h

Member
Indogrow420 said:
Maybe try kratky?
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Would love to try but would like to dial in growing in coco as I’m more confident in that. Basically I can hand water everyday and that’s what I’m mostly looking to do. Btw, grateful for all the help, was kinda second guessing on what to do.
 
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