Is there optimal amount of light that you can give for photoperiod plants? 18/6 to 24 hours? And when to swap?

[calvin.m16]

18/6 because electricity is expensive and ain't nobody got time for that.

 

[RonnieB2]

Just like thhe title says, how much light would be the optiomal in the start to start growing for photoperiods, or is there such thing?

I've always used 18/6, but i've seen people using 20/4 or even 24 hours at the start. I'm already at the second week with 18/6 and they seem to be at least growing. But would giving more light give better results?

And if you give more light, when should you swap to 18/6 OR should i even run them higher for the full veg state? Shouldn't veg state always have 18/6 cycle with photoperiods or is my info incorrect (haven't read or studied growing much in a looong time), at least autos are different but i haven't grown in a while and never grown autos, so i don't know about them.

One thing i read that 18/6 is much better and gives you better root mass, less stress overall (breathing room to plants) and even swaps your plants faster to flowering. But that is a lttle bit bro science, but several people have said the same in some forum threads. So is 18/6 the king of lighting schedule?

And if you give your plants more light, does different states of germination matter until flowrering? Like should i be swapping the lighting schedule sooner than flowering state or veg state (if i go with more light)?

I have a couple indoor grows successfully done in the past (this is my third) with the 18/6 until flowering state, but i just want to know more about this topic if this is the right place to ask.

For curiosity, have anyone here done testing about this certain topic, if we leave out autos and just talk about photos? Thanks!

A lot depends on the strain and how much you are feeding. If pushing your plants hard. You need more light if growing them easy you can back off. I run my photos hard so it's 24hrs until I flip them

 

[buckaclark]

Would someone mind explaining what it is a plant does during dark period, as in how do they benifit from it?

They jerkin the gherkin

 

[Delps8]

I dont think I said it needs a dark period. I do think almost everybody uses one.

My comment is simply that nature tells us how to grow. You can do it different and that works but imo nature has told us what to do. There is no proof it is "better", I believe there is proof it can be faster.

How plants and animals have adapted to their environment is simply how they've adapted to their environment. It means nothing in terms of how suitable something is for the human species. The idea that things are "optimal" because it's happening doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Evolution is, essentially by definition, a demolition derby for carbon-based lifeforms. It is is an extremely slow, error-prone process that is marked by massive numbers of failures, death, and extinction.

 

[ComfortCreator]

How plants and animals have adapted to their environment is simply how they've adapted to their environment. It means nothing in terms of how suitable something is for the human species. The idea that things are "optimal" because it's happening doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Evolution is, essentially by definition, a demolition derby for carbon-based lifeforms. It is is an extremely slow, error-prone process that is marked by massive numbers of failures, death, and extinction.

...and what evolves out of all that are the organisms that are best adapted to their environment. Evolution is not simply random it is survival of the fittest adapting to all of life's challenges and changes.

 

[rkymtnman]

...and what evolves out of all that are the organisms that are best adapted to their environment. Evolution is not simply random it is survival of the fittest adapting to all of life's challenges and changes.

what if you believe in creationism and not evolution.

like on the 9th day, god created cal/mag?

 

[Delps8]

what if you believe in creationism and not evolution.

like on the 9th day, god created cal/mag?

You can believe in creationism, sure. That doesn't change how evolution works.

"like on the 9th day, god created cal/mag?"
Ugh. CalMag… I dated a woman who had worked as a nurse in a psychiatric hospital here in CA (that tells you how old I am!). She recounted to me that one "client" would, after walking up to the counter, ask for her "daily placebo". I look at CalMag as a nutritional supplement — a magic potion that is widely used and almost never needed.

I've got an unopened gallon bottle of CalMag if anyone wants to stop by and pick it up.

 

[Delps8]

...and what evolves out of all that are the organisms that are best adapted to their environment. Evolution is not simply random it is survival of the fittest adapting to all of life's challenges and changes.

What we're seeing around us are species that haven't died out yet. They are adapting to their environment but that's for that species to thrive in their environment, not necessarily what humans want and that's the key.

We have the ability to change our environment so how something grows in nature, which I'll stipulate is "best adapted to their environment", is often very, very different that what suits our needs.

That was my point. Apologies for not being more to the point.

 

[Kassiopeija]

18/6 because electricity is expensive and ain't nobody got time for that.

though if you run HIDs then 24/7 with a new bulb can have it run at max efficiency. to light out a bigger veg footprint...

 

[Mason Jar 92705]

Ive been using 24/0 since the dawn of HID in the 70s. I used Halide for the first 20 years, until Hortilux started enhancing the HPS with some Blue. I went to 1000w Hortilux HPS in the 90s.

I also start seeds/seedlings under 1000w Hortilux HPS or 1150w Gavita DE HID, or a Gavita 1700e/LED. I blast them from day one. If we were in the mountains of the Andes, seedlings would be getting blasted from day one with huge amounts of light, and UVA/B. So I see no downside in blasting seedlings/rooted clones from the start. IMHO it makes them grow really fast, and develops strong side branching early on.

I grow big plants in large containers due to being in an unfriendly state to keep total numbers of plants down somewhat.

I start seeds/clones in 32oz Uline Deli Containers with Promix BX, and when theyre ready to transplant I veg them in 5 gallon grow bags for 45-70 days. When theyre ready to be transplanted the root system takes up all of the room in a 5 gallon container, usually, but is strain dependent. Fast growing Sativa dominant varieties usually fill out the space the fastest. Then when theyre ready to flower, and using an old Barneys Farm G13 x Haze that Ive had the mother plant for 12 years, I put the grow bags in 20 gallon containers and cut the bags off of the plants when ready to flower, and may veg them a week more in the 2o gallon containers, and when theyre done 70 days later, the root system takes up 100% of the space in 20 gallons of Promix BX. Ive not seen any short, or long term root growth problems vegging on a 24/0 schedule. I can lift the whole 20 gallons of soil out of the container using the stalk of the plant, and its completely root bound when theyre done.

I do have very very good ventilation/ Fresh air exchange, and temps really never exceed 85f. If you dont have good fresh air exchange the plants will not grow optimally. All in all if you have strong light, good air exchange, plenty of good soil, proper PH, and adequate amounts of food, and water, not much will hold them back. If even 1 aspect of the grow isnt optimal, progress will be slowed, or completely fucked.

Once every 7- 10 days I do turn the lights off for 4 hours to cool down the ballasts, but have also used 24/7 for 60 days veg, and never turned the lights off, and didnt have any negative impact on the plants.
I can get 22oz-24oz per 1 plant/G13 x Haze with 60 days veg. The G13 x Haze also sstretches 4-5 times its size when flipped, and I look for strains that stretch alot after flip. Im not takling about stretching where the buds are not thick either. Long, thick, dense colas. I also bend my plants over early on, and grow them like a forsythia bush. I also dont top.

Mornin’ Jimmy, I’ve been reading some of your posts and I like your style of growing, similar to mine. I run the old technology, single ended eye hortilux, 1000 watt phantom digital ballasts and I’m on the fence about changing. No, not changing to LEDs but considering the Phantom low profile digital ballast with double ended 1000 watt. Ballast/hood all one unit.
How high are your ceilings with your double ends? My ceiling is 8’ and my finished plants end up about 5’ tall. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Your gravitas are considered ‘commercial? The hydro farm phantoms I was looking at are as well. I would need 2 of them for my flower space. I just want to make the right decision or I’ll just go buy more single ended eye Horts. Thanks.

Vester

 

[Lenin1917]

How are you getting on with straight to 12-12?

I've been thinking about trying seed to 12-12 for pheno hunting as yeild isn't really a factor just a tester would be enough and then clone/re veg if required.

I've never seen anything started with 12-12 I wouldn't mind seeing some photos early or/and late if you have any handy?

Anytime I ran 12/12 from seed it still took about 3 weeks for them to start flowering. Longer node spacing too. These are from last summer

 

[Star Dog]

Anytime I ran 12/12 from seed it still took about 3 weeks for them to start flowering. Longer node spacing too. These are from last summerView attachment 5149688View attachment 5149689View attachment 5149690

Thank you I appreciate the pics, your plants look ideal I'd be delighted with that it's more than enough for a good tester lol.

I'm getting tired of vegging for wks, having to keeping clones from potential mothers then find its not great at the end of flowering.

Going straight to 12-12 would cut out a lot of work then when I find keepers I can hopefully just re veg the plant.

I flipped 2 weeks ago so now I'm going to make space for a pot and give it a try, thanks again!

 

[Lenin1917]

Thank you I appreciate the pics, your plants look ideal I'd be delighted with that it's more than enough for a good tester lol.

I'm getting tired of vegging for wks, having to keeping clones from potential mothers then find its not great at the end of flowering.

Going straight to 12-12 would cut out a lot of work then when I find keepers I can hopefully just re veg the plant.

I flipped 2 weeks ago so now I'm going to make space for a pot and give it a try, thanks again!

If you’re environments dialed in to optimal vpd for veg(0.8-1.5) it goes way faster no tricks needed.

 

[Star Dog]

If you’re environments dialed in to optimal vpd for veg(0.8-1.5) it goes way faster no tricks needed.

A faster transition into flower?
I'm quite fussy about the environment its never far off.

 

[Star Dog]

I use 24hrs but I've always made it clear that I'll use 18/6 in summer, well its summer...
I'd forgotten that I'd flipped my timer to 18/6 from 24hrs the last time I pruned my mothers around a week ago but I can check the exact date.

It's set to go off in the afternoon when I'm not around hence it slipped my mind however the growth is obviously elongated by normal standards.

I'll let it grow for 10/14 days then photograph it then flip it back to 24hrs and compare the growth after the same time frame.

I'm not trying to prove anything I'd be just as happy to not inconvenience myself but if anyone is actually interested I'll do it?

 

[jimihendrix1]

Mornin’ Jimmy, I’ve been reading some of your posts and I like your style of growing, similar to mine. I run the old technology, single ended eye hortilux, 1000 watt phantom digital ballasts and I’m on the fence about changing. No, not changing to LEDs but considering the Phantom low profile digital ballast with double ended 1000 watt. Ballast/hood all one unit.
How high are your ceilings with your double ends? My ceiling is 8’ and my finished plants end up about 5’ tall. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Your gravitas are considered ‘commercial? The hydro farm phantoms I was looking at are as well. I would need 2 of them for my flower space. I just want to make the right decision or I’ll just go buy more single ended eye Horts. Thanks.

Vester

Ive got 10 foot ceilings, and keep the light 36in-40in from the top of the plants get 5 feet tall, and you need 35in- 40in from the canopy, you dont safely have enough height. Are you also taking into account the extra height of the container??

I bend my plants over starting very early on, and they grow into a huge shrub. A big one will easily cover a 4 x 4 depending on the strain. If I didnt bend it over it would be at least 4ft tall. Some heavily Indica type strains wont fill in a 4 x 4, so I use 2-3 of them.

Also the 1150w DE Gavitas get hotter than hell. I think in many cases the SE Hortilux are a better choice.

 

[Mason Jar 92705]

Ive got 10 foot ceilings, and keep the light 36in-40in from the top of the plants get 5 feet tall, and you need 35in- 40in from the canopy, you dont safely have enough height. Are you also taking into account the extra height of the container??

I bend my plants over starting very early on, and they grow into a huge shrub. A big one will easily cover a 4 x 4 depending on the strain. If I didnt bend it over it would be at least 4ft tall. Some heavily Indica type strains wont fill in a 4 x 4, so I use 2-3 of them.

Also the 1150w DE Gavitas get hotter than hell. I think in many cases the SE Hortilux are a better choice.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I’m taking into account the container too. I veg my plants in 10 gal. top once and veg to belly button height. They finish 5-5.5’ tall. So pretty much just stick with the single ended eye hort 1k bulbs/set up? I’ve been doing it the same way from the beginning, a long time ago. What would u recommend? And no, I’m not doing led’s.

Vester

 

[SpideyManDan]

!8/6 or 24/0. Just veg your plants then flip to 12/12 and flower them when you're ready.

Why worry about things and over complicate them?

I kind of get where OP is coming from, it's something to tinker with and experiment. I get where you are coming from, but imo, why not. As long as they record their results and try to make sure to have a control plant to compare it to.

 

[Delps8]

I kind of get where OP is coming from, it's something to tinker with and experiment. I get where you are coming from, but imo, why not. As long as they record their results and try to make sure to have a control plant to compare it to.

Each to his own? Agree completely.

"try to make sure to have a control plant to compare it to." - "There is no "try" only "do"." as the little green guy with the pointy ears said.

It's not just a "control plant". To carry any weight, it's got to be "controlled experiment".

One of the drawbacks to "experimenting" is the difficulty of designing and executing a "controlled experiment" that is actually a controlled experiment. And once you've conducted the experiment, you publish the results, and other growers attempt to reproduce the findings using the conditions that you've published. Yeh, that's being picky but, if you don't have that level of rigor, it's just another grow.

 

[jimihendrix1]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I’m taking into account the container too. I veg my plants in 10 gal. top once and veg to belly button height. They finish 5-5.5’ tall. So pretty much just stick with the single ended eye hort 1k bulbs/set up? I’ve been doing it the same way from the beginning, a long time ago. What would u recommend? And no, I’m not doing led’s.

Vester

I would continue using the 1000w Hortilux HPS. 1 for each 4 x 4 area.