Can't keep seedlings alive

G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
Here's an update:
Got the new PH meter on Thursday and calibrated it. I've been lowering the PH in the res to about 5.9 as measured by the new PH meter.
The plants are growing, but still in bad shape. I assume it'll take more time for them to recover if they ever do.

Added another 1mg/Gal of the Flora trio. EC measures at 650ppm.
Lux measures around10k-11k at the top of the plants.

20220710_114008.jpg
 
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
Another update:
They're still growing super slow, still showing chlorosis and some of the older leaves are still dying.
I've trimmed away the dead leaves.

Is this the normal process of recovery or is there still something wrong?

The PH is around 6.0 every day.
EC was 650ppm, which I think might be too high so I diluted it down to 350ppm and adjusted the PH back to 6.0.

These plants are now 4 weeks old, are they permanently growth stunted or is it possible for them to recover?

The other 2 plants in the res are rosemary and sweet basil, and those plants are growing perfectly fine.

20220715_110151.jpg
 
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
@Herb & Suds I was worried they were getting nutrient burned at 650ppm, so yesterday I diluted it to 350ppm.

Is 650ppm really too low for them at this stage of growth? If so I'll slowly increase the nutes again and see what happens.

EDIT: typo.
 
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
OK thanks @Herb & Suds I'll slowly increase the nutes again and see how they respond.

It's worth mentioning: the left 2 plants are commercial seeds (Equilibrium "Dark Cherry"), while the right 2 plants are bag seeds. That might explain the difference in appearance.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
gwarf said:
@Herb & Suds I was worried they were getting nutrient burned at 650ppm, so yesterday I diluted it to 350ppm.

Is 650ppm really too low for them at this stage of growth? If so I'll slowly increase the nutes again and see what happens.

EDIT: typo.
Click to expand...
I would be at 500ppm ±50 true nutrient ppm at that stage. In other words if the water is 100ppm my final ppm should be around 600.

Are you maybe fussing with the pH too much trying to stay at a set point? Anywhere between 5.4 and 6.4 works tho I used to aim for 5.8 it would fluctuate from the 5.4 I'd drop it to up to up to 6.3 at each top-up every 3 days. Adjusting the pH a lot to stay at one spot can cause problems of it's own but they do look hungry so I'd add a bit more nutes to get the ppm up to what I said and add some epsom if you haven't yet. Just toss a heaping Tbsp into the tub and it'll mix in on it's own.

:peace:
 
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
Awesome, thanks for the info @OldMedUser and @Herb & Suds .

Yesterday I was at 650ppm total, that was about 4ml/Gal of CalMag and 3ml/Gal of each of the Flora nutes in distilled water.

I'll add the nutes slowly to get it back up to around 500ppm.

Is it OK to skip the epsom salt since I already have CalMag in there?
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
gwarf said:
Awesome, thanks for the info @OldMedUser and @Herb & Suds .

Yesterday I was at 650ppm total, that was about 4ml/Gal of CalMag and 3ml/Gal of each of the Flora nutes in distilled water.

I'll add the nutes slowly to get it back up to around 500ppm.

Is it OK to skip the epsom salt since I already have CalMag in there?
Click to expand...
You can drop the Mg (Epsom Salt) if you are using a CalMag product.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
gwarf said:
Awesome, thanks for the info @OldMedUser and @Herb & Suds .

Yesterday I was at 650ppm total, that was about 4ml/Gal of CalMag and 3ml/Gal of each of the Flora nutes in distilled water.

I'll add the nutes slowly to get it back up to around 500ppm.

Is it OK to skip the epsom salt since I already have CalMag in there?
Click to expand...
Epsom Salts are a good source of sulphur so remember to use some in later flowering as S is the secret ingredient in most bud boosters and increases resin output.

I would cut back on the CalMag to no more than 2ml/gal and none at first when starting with a fresh batch of nutes. Your GH nutes are designed to give plants enough Ca and Mg when you first use them. I used to do my DWC from clone to harvest without ever changing nutes even once using AN 3-part with RO water and hardly ever used CalMag. Never saw a deficiency in either but after the stretch in flower would notice signs of low MG so then would add a heaping Tbsp to the tub to fix that and give them extra S tho the AN Big Bud I use as my booster has 10% S in it the Epsom gave them a bit more. Very hard to overdose with S but too much Ca blocks K, Fe, Mg and Mn.

Calcium.jpg

Save this one for future reference. Make sure to carefully read the clues around the plants pictured as many symptoms are common for more than one deficiency or excess and the problem shows in different areas depending on whether the nutrient in question is mobile or immobile. If mobile the older leaves show problems first, N,P,K,Zn and Mg as the plant can steal it and use it in actively growing areas like the tops. Everything else is immobile so if the plant can't get it thru the roots the newest growth will show symptoms first. Gotta play detective to make sure you get it right or you can make things worse. You can get all sorts of free grow books at PDFdrive.com. Just do a search for cannabis, pot, marijuana and start downloading. Comes in other formats than .pdf too.

CervantesNutrientChart.jpg

:peace:
 
Billytheluther

Billytheluther

Well-Known Member
I run ro water id try and give 1.5 calmag at that stageper gallon
Brings up my ec to around 15-200ish
Then run flora trio at3/4 strength for early growth using the old feed chart not the new one
Remember to mix in cal mag first
 
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
@OldMedUser great tip about the sulfur in epsom salts! I'll keep that in mind and grab a bag from CVS.
I actually downloaded that exact same deficiency chart a while ago (well mine has a "www.loudclouds.co" logo at the bottom, but same thing).
After I nutrient-burned my first grow I picked up Rosenthal's book in hard copy. I refer to it for the fundamentals but it's not exactly a step-by-step tutorial.

To recap, this is basically how this grow went so far:
Week 1:
2ml CalMag, nothing else
* Plants stretched so I increased the light power from 25% to 50%

Week 2:
2ml CalMag, GH Flora (1ml/1ml/1ml)
* Started noticing plants fucking up, lowered light to 30%

Week 3:
4ml CalMag, GH Flora (2ml/2ml/2ml)
* Learned the PH meter was miscalibrated and the real reading was around 7.5. Started lowering PH.

Week 4:
4ml CalMag, GH Flora (3ml/3ml/3ml)
* Plants are still doing poorly so I diluted the res to 350ppm
* Just today I added 1ml of Flora back to the res

I'll keep an eye on these plants but they seem very stunted at this point so I'm starting to germinate new seeds.
 
Z

zebracake

Member
I think it might be overfeeding. When I have plants around that size I'm usually feeding 400-500ppm. You can see the tip of the leaves on your largest plant are pointing down that's either overfeeding, too much light, or both. But since your plants are stretching I'd say it's overfeeding.

Also, you shouldn't use epsom salt if you're already using cal mag since cal mag has all the magnesium you need. You gotta choose one or the other. I use epsom salt since most nutrient companies neglect sulfur but I mix my own nutrient salts with a hydroponic calculator. And if you're not using cal mag you replace it with epsom salt for the magnesium and calcium nitrate for the calcium and nitrogen.
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
gwarf said:
@OldMedUser great tip about the sulfur in epsom salts! I'll keep that in mind and grab a bag from CVS.
I actually downloaded that exact same deficiency chart a while ago (well mine has a "www.loudclouds.co" logo at the bottom, but same thing).
After I nutrient-burned my first grow I picked up Rosenthal's book in hard copy. I refer to it for the fundamentals but it's not exactly a step-by-step tutorial.

To recap, this is basically how this grow went so far:
Week 1:
2ml CalMag, nothing else
* Plants stretched so I increased the light power from 25% to 50%

Week 2:
2ml CalMag, GH Flora (1ml/1ml/1ml)
* Started noticing plants fucking up, lowered light to 30%

Week 3:
4ml CalMag, GH Flora (2ml/2ml/2ml)
* Learned the PH meter was miscalibrated and the real reading was around 7.5. Started lowering PH.

Week 4:
4ml CalMag, GH Flora (3ml/3ml/3ml)
* Plants are still doing poorly so I diluted the res to 350ppm
* Just today I added 1ml of Flora back to the res

I'll keep an eye on these plants but they seem very stunted at this point so I'm starting to germinate new seeds.
Click to expand...
I’d suggest stop using so much CalMag and let your nutrient line provide them.

Not sure why you insist on using CalMag and not following the manufacturer guidelines for feeding.
 
Last edited:
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
@twentyeight.threefive That's a good point, I'll avoid adding more CalMag. In my last grow I basically followed the GH feed chart for the first 2 weeks, but my tap water already had a high ppm (around 500ppm). The plants were very quickly overfed.
Thread here: https://rollitup.org/t/early-signs-of-yellowing-veins-dying-leaves.1074024/
The GH feed chart I was following was the "Medium" feed for Flora here: https://generalhydroponics.com/wp-content/uploads/assets/GH_FloraSeries_FeedCharts_USD.pdf

TLDR: I started low with about 1ml/1ml/1ml. In the second week I used 4ml/4ml/3ml (per the feed chart above). The seedlings started yellowing, I assumed it might be an Mg deficiency so I added 2ml/Gal (again according to the feed chart). The seedlings crisped up and never recovered.

I figured the amount of CalMag I'm using should be safe since the label on the CaliMagic bottle says "When using reverse osmosis or purified water, add 1 ml per liter (1 teaspoon per gallon) to water before adding nutrient solution".

This time I'm using a lower feed just to avoid overfeeding them again, something like the one for DWC here: https://www.growweedeasy.com/general-hydroponics-flora-trio-guide
 
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
@OldMedUser The roots are all long, thin and white. The water level is about 1 inch below the bottom of the net pots, but they do get pretty wet from the bubbler.

20220716_215751.jpg
 
ProPheT 216

ProPheT 216

Well-Known Member
Do you use bacteria? Looks In need of shit to fight whatever is killing your roots. If you don't know anything about how to pick a product ask plenty will help
 
G

gwarf

Well-Known Member
@ProPheT 216 so far I've just been adding a little H2O2 here and there but no other root treatment. After week 2 I suspected something might have infected the res so I swapped out the entire container for an unused container that I scrubbed with H2O2. Is this really a sign of something killing the roots, and not just stunted growth from previous problems? The other 2 plants in the same res (rosemary and basil) are still growing fine.

I was thinking of grabbing a quart of Hydroguard, I've heard good things about it.
 
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