Yellowing Leaves Early in Flower

GrowUpSun

Member
Have a troublesome grow indoors. First grow since 2014. Did 2 dry runs with 6 inch plants through flower. Seeds were from 2010 black market cannabis. Plants looked perfect the entire way. In fact lower leaves didn't yellow at all through to harvest, but they were tiny plants in 2 gal containers.

I started some plants from a seed bank. Bubblegum and Super Skunk. Grew them mostly outdoors in soil for the first several weeks. (It was a bad situation because, while my black market plants were all the same size, as with every grow I've done, these expensive seeds weren't. All different rates of growth in the same environment.)

Eventually transplanted the bubblegum (4 plants) and super skunk (2 plants) from soil to coco to grow outside in an extremely hot environment (Average 110F for two weeks x 2 episodes). Plants were transplanted to 10 gallon containers prior to the high heat assuming they would finish outdoors and so I could water heavily during the hot spells. Plants had one episode of yellowing leaves outdoors, possibly due to a phosphorus deficiency caused by too much sun) that appeared to be remedied by strict control of PH (5.8) and adding Flower Fuel (1-34-32) to the VPS products I was using at the time.

Unfortunately one super skunk and one bubblegum started flowering a few days after the longest day of the summer (with over 14 hours of light every day), and a month before I thought they would start, so, because of our monsoon season and knowing bubblegum molds, I moved all 6 plants indoors.

Now the plants are in a 4x4 in 10 gallon containers. Using a VS KS5000. About 12 inches off the canopy and set to 100%. PPFD is over 1000. Plants were trained to create a horizontal canopy and even though I lollipopped, the canopy is still thick, but light is reaching leaves that are now turning yellow, where as a week ago only leaves way down in the canopy were yellowing, and that appeared to be from a phosphorous deficiency.

When I started noticing a possible phosphorus deficiency fairly quickly in the tent, I added Flower Fuel to VPS again (PH 6.0) and fed that for 3-4 feedings. Nothing changed really, except the leaves didn't appear to have the previous brown spots on yellowing leaves.

As mentioned above, now I have leaves receiving light that are yellowing, but the latest leaves do not appear to have a phosphorus deficiency. Looks more like it might be a nitrogen deficiency. All 6 plants are at a different stage of development. One Super Skunk appears to be in about week 5 and the first to flower Bubblegum looks a week younger. The rest are in weeks 2-3.

So, before I loose this crop after all the work of getting them this far, thought I would ask for help. I did turn down the KS5000 to 75% to see if that would help. PPFD is around 600 to 800.

Added Co2 via wine yeast and sugar water a couple days ago. Do not have a CO2 meter to measure CO2.

Do not have pictures. Will take some when lights are on again.

I just want to say...WOW. That is a LOT of moving and some complicated stuff. I have to say, I think most people make growing this wayyy to hard. Harder than it ever has to be. My plants (3 different strains) which were started together were all different sizes when planted outside. No big deal, now that we are toward the end of Veg, even the smallest plant has caught up and is incredibly tall. We have some 9 ft monsters after I topped them throughout the grow. I make sure that when I plant them in the ground they get the best start. I amend the soil w the best organic ingredients I can find.. After that I feed 1x a week, slowly increasing the strength & amount I feed as they grow. It all works out. I just trust the plants.. If a plant has a problem, I try feeding that ones a little more and waiting a week to see the change. It has worked wonders. I'll attach pics. I learned from growing a veggie garden for many years about plants. At the end of the day this is a plant, and a pretty forgiving one too. I don't ever check ph or anything. My veggies grow well here, I amend my soil w compost at the end of the year and prepare for next year. If peppers and tomatoes like it, cannabis will too. That's what I have found. I use a dry feed and cal mag...that's it. PICS Below: we have small autos in pots growing along side our photos in the ground. Planted at different times, so we have different harvest times. The very large plants were first plants to be planted in June, they were tiny.. now some are literally over 9 ft..even w toppings...
 

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Thanks for sharing.

It was a lot of moving because I did not want to turn on an air conditioner. Normally I grow Oct through Feb. This time I started April 29th to practice before I planted seeds I paid money for. These seed bank seeds were funky at the start. I had 4 plants and 2 plants of the same strains. Everyone of the same strain were different from the other in size. Then I got whacked by FFOF fungus gnats. And then they flowered a month earlier than I expected outside, and during the monsoon. So I had to move inside or take a chance with mold after all the work.

BUT this is what I am talking about. Seeds from 2010 kept in a freezer. All plants the same size. Grown to about 6-9 inches and then placed into flower bent over as a guy on here named TBone Shuffle suggested in an historical post.

Both runs (7 plants and 4 plants a couple weeks apart in age) hermied. Tried to grow with no AC. The seeds I used were feminized by mistake years ago. Fluctuating environment and spider mites freaked the plants out. Now everytime I grow those seeds they are always female and they always hermie if everything isn't perfect. And all of these got whacked by FFOF fungus gnats. Mosquito bits worked but I didn't continue after I thought all gnats were dead, so they were a nuisance the entire run. Another reason to try coco coir inside.

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When I have had leaf problems like that I can usually fix it with a heavy flush and re-water. I've plugged up the sink after the flush, over water and adjust PH directly in the runoff, cycle through the runoff and check again. Keep adjusting runoff until it's the same going out as coming in at your ideal PH. Depending on the soil, what you're feeding, etc. the PH can get very low and adding properly PHed nutrients on top isn't going to raise it up enough. Conversely, I've had situations where the PH through normal watering ended up around 6.7 for what reason I don't know... but a heavy flush with a careful PH afterwards will take care of salt buildup and PH issues. I've had sorry looking plants perk up quickly doing this.
Hey Rahz, Did the flush last night. Took 6 hours and I ran about 10 gallons of PH'd rainwater through each 10 gallon container. Flushed until TDS was below 200. The TDS per plant at the start of flushing were: 1120, 770, 749, 750, 670, 667. The high one was a smaller plant that was fed identical to the large ones.

That was a hard job. 60 gallons of water in and a lot of water out. Without that $40 Craftsman 5 gallon bucket vacuum, I'd still be flushing. That was work. Those containers would have 5 gallon had I not gone outisde for a month or so. Needed thermal protection (large container) and the ability to water heavily in 110F heat.

Interesting aspect of coco coir was that more I flushed the higher the PH went in the runoff, stopping at about 6.6 to 6.8, and most being 6.7. Need to research that. That must be why coco coir guys say to not worry about PH of the runoff.

I did not feed them last night. They probably were fed by released nutrients. The runoff water was VPS Flower red, so there were a lot of nutrients in that coco coir. Should say 50/50 coco perlite.

AND something else was apparent. After removing the trellis and actually lifting the containers out of the tent, they were light as a feather. Maybe I've been underwatering. And they were 30-40 lbs heavy after flushing. Could have been underwatering. But now the canopy is thinner. Did not get a chance to look at them before lights went out this morning.

I have a tiny grasshopper in there eating my leaves. Hopefully it escaped. Did not see it while I was flushing.

Thanks again!
 
Thanks for sharing.

It was a lot of moving because I did not want to turn on an air conditioner. Normally I grow Oct through Feb. This time I started April 29th to practice before I planted seeds I paid money for. These seed bank seeds were funky at the start. I had 4 plants and 2 plants of the same strains. Everyone of the same strain were different from the other in size. Then I got whacked by FFOF fungus gnats. And then they flowered a month earlier than I expected outside, and during the monsoon. So I had to move inside or take a chance with mold after all the work.

BUT this is what I am talking about. Seeds from 2010 kept in a freezer. All plants the same size. Grown to about 6-9 inches and then placed into flower bent over as a guy on here named TBone Shuffle suggested in an historical post.

Both runs (7 plants and 4 plants a couple weeks apart in age) hermied. Tried to grow with no AC. The seeds I used were feminized by mistake years ago. Fluctuating environment and spider mites freaked the plants out. Now everytime I grow those seeds they are always female and they always hermie if everything isn't perfect. And all of these got whacked by FFOF fungus gnats. Mosquito bits worked but I didn't continue after I thought all gnats were dead, so they were a nuisance the entire run. Another reason to try coco coir inside.

View attachment 5178405

View attachment 5178409

View attachment 5178410

View attachment 5178411
Thanks for sharing.

It was a lot of moving because I did not want to turn on an air conditioner. Normally I grow Oct through Feb. This time I started April 29th to practice before I planted seeds I paid money for. These seed bank seeds were funky at the start. I had 4 plants and 2 plants of the same strains. Everyone of the same strain were different from the other in size. Then I got whacked by FFOF fungus gnats. And then they flowered a month earlier than I expected outside, and during the monsoon. So I had to move inside or take a chance with mold after all the work.

BUT this is what I am talking about. Seeds from 2010 kept in a freezer. All plants the same size. Grown to about 6-9 inches and then placed into flower bent over as a guy on here named TBone Shuffle suggested in an historical post.

Both runs (7 plants and 4 plants a couple weeks apart in age) hermied. Tried to grow with no AC. The seeds I used were feminized by mistake years ago. Fluctuating environment and spider mites freaked the plants out. Now everytime I grow those seeds they are always female and they always hermie if everything isn't perfect. And all of these got whacked by FFOF fungus gnats. Mosquito bits worked but I didn't continue after I thought all gnats were dead, so they were a nuisance the entire run. Another reason to try coco coir inside.

View attachment 5178405

View attachment 5178409

View attachment 5178410

View attachment 5178411
And I have 5 of these potentially hermie plants outside suffering through extreme weather in 5gal plastic pots. No sign of any hermies yet. Plants love freedom too.
 
Hey Rahz, Did the flush last night. Took 6 hours and I ran about 10 gallons of PH'd rainwater through each 10 gallon container. Flushed until TDS was below 200. The TDS per plant at the start of flushing were: 1120, 770, 749, 750, 670, 667. The high one was a smaller plant that was fed identical to the large ones.

That was a hard job. 60 gallons of water in and a lot of water out. Without that $40 Craftsman 5 gallon bucket vacuum, I'd still be flushing. That was work. Those containers would have 5 gallon had I not gone outisde for a month or so. Needed thermal protection (large container) and the ability to water heavily in 110F heat.

Interesting aspect of coco coir was that more I flushed the higher the PH went in the runoff, stopping at about 6.6 to 6.8, and most being 6.7. Need to research that. That must be why coco coir guys say to not worry about PH of the runoff.

I did not feed them last night. They probably were fed by released nutrients. The runoff water was VPS Flower red, so there were a lot of nutrients in that coco coir. Should say 50/50 coco perlite.

AND something else was apparent. After removing the trellis and actually lifting the containers out of the tent, they were light as a feather. Maybe I've been underwatering. And they were 30-40 lbs heavy after flushing. Could have been underwatering. But now the canopy is thinner. Did not get a chance to look at them before lights went out this morning.

I have a tiny grasshopper in there eating my leaves. Hopefully it escaped. Did not see it while I was flushing.

Thanks again!
Canopy is thinner AND the coco coir is fresh and clean for the homerun stretch. Gotta stay positive.
 
Well, Farck. AC died yesterday. Moved everything outside. Farck. Well, I suspect the yellowing leaves will dissipate now. This should be interesting. 100F+, rainy season.

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I use this one as suggested by cocoforcannabis: https://www.amazon.com/Lxuemlu-Professional-Temperature-0-9999ppm-Aquariums/dp/B079DN9DRS

though, if you have a TDS meter and it is using the 500 scale, you can just multiply it by 2x and that is your EC i.e. 500ppm = 1000ec or 1.0ec

I am not familiar with VPS nutrients, but varying the feed by 500ppm is highly unstable and can cause problems.

This is a rough guide for EC / ppm targets which you might find useful. The whole website is super informative.
Hello, do not understand Weeks 7-11. Can you explain? Thanks!

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it refers to flower time estimates. 7 week strain, 9 week strain etc...
the times are just an estimate, though. go by how the plants seem to be doing. and the flush is optional also (wouldn't recommend)
I just did a huge flush because I have been feeding light (1-2 liters every other day) in 10 gal 50/50 coco perlite. TDS was about 750 avg for all plants for runoff.

Containers are still heavy but will feed shortly. All are outside now. AC died day after the flush. Flush would have been easier outside. I'm tired of this run inside. Not the right time of year here. Almost quit, but I can't quit. Probably should have bought a new AC...

Thanks but I still do not understand what that table is trying to tell me. I will research it online for more info.
 

ClaytonNewbilFontaine

Well-Known Member
Hey Rahz, Did the flush last night. Took 6 hours and I ran about 10 gallons of PH'd rainwater through each 10 gallon container. Flushed until TDS was below 200. The TDS per plant at the start of flushing were: 1120, 770, 749, 750, 670, 667. The high one was a smaller plant that was fed identical to the large ones.

That was a hard job. 60 gallons of water in and a lot of water out. Without that $40 Craftsman 5 gallon bucket vacuum, I'd still be flushing. That was work. Those containers would have 5 gallon had I not gone outisde for a month or so. Needed thermal protection (large container) and the ability to water heavily in 110F heat.

Interesting aspect of coco coir was that more I flushed the higher the PH went in the runoff, stopping at about 6.6 to 6.8, and most being 6.7. Need to research that. That must be why coco coir guys say to not worry about PH of the runoff.

I did not feed them last night. They probably were fed by released nutrients. The runoff water was VPS Flower red, so there were a lot of nutrients in that coco coir. Should say 50/50 coco perlite.

AND something else was apparent. After removing the trellis and actually lifting the containers out of the tent, they were light as a feather. Maybe I've been underwatering. And they were 30-40 lbs heavy after flushing. Could have been underwatering. But now the canopy is thinner. Did not get a chance to look at them before lights went out this morning.

I have a tiny grasshopper in there eating my leaves. Hopefully it escaped. Did not see it while I was flushing.

Thanks again!
Hi, thanks for posting, I picked up some good info reading through. I'm also getting some very minimal yellowing in the bottom leaves. I don't think it's a big deal but I'd love to understand why it's happening. I changed the light cycle 2 weeks ago, they started flowing a few days a ago. I thought it mightve been N def, it def looks like it. I'm following the ff feeding schedule. I've been going heavier on the N last feeding and it's a at least now getting worse. The plant is so bushy its almost not bad losing some leaves from the bottom. I think I might need to flush though. I don't really know. I appreciate the explanation of your flushing process. I may not do it after reading all that, it sounds like a lot of work and whatever is going on with my yellowing leaves is minimal. If it keeps up I'll do it. Or if I knew for sure. The ff feed schedule does call for a flush. Shit yeah I guess I'll do it. I'd also use a shop vac. I think I could get it done without taking them out from under the trellis net. The only problem is if I don't scrub out the run off tray then it gets build up which I know is messing with the tds readings I'm trying to get from the run off. Most of the time I don't get too much run off. I read you don't have to do much with soil and organic nutrients. I'll have to figure out what water to use to flush. I only have 2 plants in 3 gal fabric pots. Been using local spring water to water but it's pretty hard so I'll mix it with some bottles spring water. Anyway, sorry for rambling, thank you for posting this.
 
I just did a huge flush because I have been feeding light (1-2 liters every other day) in 10 gal 50/50 coco perlite. TDS was about 750 avg for all plants for runoff.

Containers are still heavy but will feed shortly. All are outside now. AC died day after the flush. Flush would have been easier outside. I'm tired of this run inside. Not the right time of year here. Almost quit, but I can't quit. Probably should have bought a new AC...

Thanks but I still do not understand what that table is trying to tell me. I will research it online for more info.
The days correspond to the nutrient schedule. If you have a strain expected to finish in 7 weeks from pistils, you would go by "early blm" days 1-14, days 15-28 in "mid blm" etc. If the strain is expected to finish 10-11 weeks from pistils, you would go days 1-18 in "early bloom", days 19-39 in "mid blm". It's simply an adjusted schedule based on expected finishing time.

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I just did a huge flush because I have been feeding light (1-2 liters every other day) in 10 gal 50/50 coco perlite. TDS was about 750 avg for all plants for runoff.

Containers are still heavy but will feed shortly. All are outside now. AC died day after the flush. Flush would have been easier outside. I'm tired of this run inside. Not the right time of year here. Almost quit, but I can't quit. Probably should have bought a new AC...

Thanks but I still do not understand what that table is trying to tell me. I will research it online for more info.
in 10 gallon pots you should be fertigating a lot more than a half gallon per pot per day. if it's 50/50 perlite to coco, you can expect each container to hold 5 gallons or so of nutrient water. you're probably looking at needing like 3 gallons per pot per day to replenish nutrients/flush salt buildup, which is a lot, and probably most goes to waste unless your plants are really filling out 10 gallon pots (unlikely). that's why most people just use 3-5 gallon pots for coco.

If you're taking them outdoors, good luck. the rain will likely give you EC problems.
 
in 10 gallon pots you should be fertigating a lot more than a half gallon per pot per day. if it's 50/50 perlite to coco, you can expect each container to hold 5 gallons or so of nutrient water. you're probably looking at needing like 3 gallons per pot per day to replenish nutrients/flush salt buildup, which is a lot, and probably most goes to waste unless your plants are really filling out 10 gallon pots (unlikely). that's why most people just use 3-5 gallon pots for coco.

If you're taking them outdoors, good luck. the rain will likely give you EC problems.
Its a long story, but I generally do 2 gal inside and never over 5 outside. When the rain starts, like all day today, they are under a hoop house tent.

They'll be schitzo before I finish this run...rofl

BUT watering 12 2 gallon container is not fun, so will do 5 gal's and 4-6 plants next time inside.

Thanks!
 
Its a long story, but I generally do 2 gal inside and never over 5 outside. When the rain starts, like all day today, they are under a hoop house tent.

They'll be schitzo before I finish this run...rofl

BUT watering 12 2 gallon container is not fun, so will do 5 gal's and 4-6 plants next time inside.

Thanks!
And you are correct, it took over 3 gallons to get runoff in those containers. Closer to 4 gallons.
 
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