Fascism and the Republican Party

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Murder about half the people in this society?

You don't mean that, do you Roger?

no, i'm sure taking out the worst 10% would be sufficient to quiet the rest of them down...
of course i don't mean it. but we do have to take some pretty severe measures, and we don't have a lot of time to take them.
if you come out of the hole talking extermination, the opposition is relieved and grateful when you settle for some pretty draconian measures instead.
if you ask for what you want to begin with, you can only negotiate down from there...start asking for the fucking impossible, the horrible, and slowly allow yourself to be persuaded to reason...that is the only kind of negotiation that will work with fascist authoritarians, they don't respect reasonable negotiations.
and you have to make them believe you...

 

[Fogdog]

no, i'm sure taking out the worst 10% would be sufficient to quiet the rest of them down...
of course i don't mean it. but we do have to take some pretty severe measures, and we don't have a lot of time to take them.
if you come out of the hole talking extermination, the opposition is relieved and grateful when you settle for some pretty draconian measures instead.
if you ask for what you want to begin with, you can only negotiate down from there...start asking for the fucking impossible, the horrible, and slowly allow yourself to be persuaded to reason...that is the only kind of negotiation that will work with fascist authoritarians, they don't respect reasonable negotiations.
and you have to make them believe you...
View attachment 5197298

OK, so you haven't gone all our Pol Pot. You were exaggerating and speaking rhetorically rather than literaly.

I think I'll stick with the intellectual exercise of trying to understand them. The truly rotten ones are probably about 20% of the population. I have no illusions of converting them into saints. I figure if we can keep them from taking down our democracy for another 5 years, demographics will take over and end their ability to win even in the states where they seem to have complete control now.

Canna and you, I believe, are right in that there is something wrong with how social media is used these days. Some of the messages used to sow fear, uncertainty and anger are rooted in classic fascist propaganda tools, such as, scapegoating minorities, extremist nationalism, putting the state ahead of individuality, conspiracy myths and so on. It is used to amplify fear, doubt and anger. This is making people feel the need for a leader who claims "only I have the answer" and "we need a strong leader". They want to feel safe and be certain they are doing the right thing. We see it in their actions. They keep doubling down on Trump and the big lie. .

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

OK, so you haven't gone all our Pol Pot. You were exaggerating and speaking rhetorically rather than literaly.

I think I'll stick with the intellectual exercise of trying to understand them. The truly rotten ones are probably about 20% of the population. I have no illusions of converting them into saints. I figure if we can keep them from taking down our democracy for another 5 years, demographics will take over and end their ability to win even in the states where they seem to have complete control now.

Canna and you, I believe, are right in that there is something wrong with how social media is used these days. Some of the messages used to sow fear, uncertainty and anger are rooted in classic fascist propaganda tools, such as, scapegoating minorities, extremist nationalism, putting the state ahead of individuality, conspiracy myths and so on. It is used to amplify fear, doubt and anger. This is making people feel the need for a leader who claims "only I have the answer" and "we need a strong leader". They want to feel safe and be certain they are doing the right thing. We see it in their actions. They keep doubling down on Trump and the big lie. .

I really have quit trying to understand them any more than i do, which is enough to know that they are dangerous in a mob, not so much otherwise. Trying to understand abnormal behavior isn't good for normal people.
Social media was never a tool for social betterment, no matter the claims of those that created it, and then refused to police it.
Did Zuckerberg, McCallum, Dorsey, Biz Stone, Systrom all expect people to NOT misbehave? Given effective anonymity and an unregulated forum?
https://www.fcc.gov/general/enforcement-primer
the fcc is a pretty impotent enforcement arm as far as this kind of issue goes, and they didn't even start trying to regulate social media until 2020.
social media platforms should be shut down until they show that they have the means in place to identify those making threat, inciting violence, spreading misinformation, and to shut them down, all day, every day. that might not be a very popular opinion...but, you can't give a shit about it's popularity, because you're dealing with this...
"In the 1950s, the psychologists James Olds and Peter Milner modified the chamber so that a lever press would deliver direct brain stimulation through deep implanted electrodes. What resulted was perhaps the most dramatic experiment in the history of behavioral neuroscience: Rats would press the lever as many as 7,000 times per hour to stimulate their brains. This was a pleasure center, a reward circuit, the activation of which was much more powerful than any natural stimulus."
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/compass-pleasure_b_890342
That ^ is what you are trying to stop, and once the behavior is established, you have very little chance of changing it unless you find an even more powerful stimulus.

 

[cannabineer]

… Trying to understand abnormal behavior isn't good for normal people.

My reflexive response: “We’re not talking about normal people — we’re talking about us.”

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

My reflexive response: “We’re not talking about normal people — we’re talking about us.”

Touche'... Although i cannot deny my abnormality, there are different types, and my personal abnormality is much more benign than fascist authoritarianism.
I'm more "pain is a good teacher, but you have to inflict it upon yourself for the lesson to have real value." Of course, that also requires that you're intelligent enough to understand the lesson...

 

[Hotrod2]

dude, i can't believe you're stupid enough to support republicunts...what the fuck is wrong with you?
trump is a lying fucking traitor, the whole fucking party is full of fascist authoritarians who want to steal the rights of everyone, EVERYONE but wealthy white males...if you can look at the facts and still support a party of obvious criminals and authoritarians, then just go fuck yourself, you're beyond hope, and beneath notice

Seems to me this whole thread is about hate. And you and others talking bad about fellow Americans, if you even are an American.

 

[cannabineer]

Seems to me this whole thread is about hate. And you and others talking bad about fellow Americans, if you even are an American.

Think of it rather as an immune response.

 

[Hotrod2]

Think of it rather as an immune response.

Just seems divisive to me. I disagree with many of my friends about their political and personal beliefs. I would never assume to condemn them for either.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

There is right and wrong, and it is as simple as that. Do i sound pissed off? Well, sorry. I find it difficult to deal with one of the political parties in my country doing everything in their power to disenfranchise anyone who doesn't share their views.
I'm also having some problems understanding how a real estate con artist has convinced close to half the country that even though he's a blatant sexist, racist, and authoritarian, that he not only is innocent, he can do no wrong.
The thing I'm really having trouble with is that it really looks like he has sold secrets to our enemies, after attempting to overthrow the government...And people still support him.
We could go on, about gerrymandering, about them voting against lgbtq rights, about them voting against veteran's health care, about them voting against women's right to make their own decisions, against pretty much everything, everywhere, all at once, but i'll save that for other posts.

 

[Hotrod2]

There is right and wrong, and it is as simple as that. Do i sound pissed off? Well, sorry. I find it difficult to deal with one of the political parties in my country doing everything in their power to disenfranchise anyone who doesn't share their views.
I'm also having some problems understanding how a real estate con artist has convinced close to half the country that even though he's a blatant sexist, racist, and authoritarian, that he not only is innocent, he can do no wrong.
The thing I'm really having trouble with is that it really looks like he has sold secrets to our enemies, after attempting to overthrow the government...And people still support him.
We could go on, about gerrymandering, about them voting against lgbtq rights, about them voting against veterans health care, about them voting against womens right to make their own decisions, against pretty much everything, everywhere, all at once, but i'll save that for other posts.

I have no desire to try and educate you or Enlighten you about what's important in life. But I will tell you not to debase another person because of how they think feel or what they say is not a good thing

 

[Hotrod2]

I have no desire to try and educate you or Enlighten you about what's important in life. But I will tell you not to debase another person because of how they think feel or what they say is not a good thing

You're entitled to think feel and say whatever is important to you. But I see nothing in this thread that promotes Harmony or Goodwill. Anything below that is negative. And I don't do that. Life is too short to deal with people that only want to hate.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I have no desire to try and educate you or Enlighten you about what's important in life. But I will tell you not to debase another person because of how they think feel or what they say is not a good thing

yeah, that's the policy now. fortunately, i made that post before the current policy was announced, and am doing my best to adhere to it...

 

[Hotrod2]

yeah, that's the policy now. fortunately, i made that post before the current policy was announced, and am doing my best to adhere to it...

I don't care about policy. But it will boil down to is what kind of people we are.

 

[Hotrod2]

I don't care about policy. But it will boil down to is what kind of people we are.

I am an old man and I've never seen anything positive come out of debasing a person. I guess the bottom line is what kind of person do you want to be.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

So, it is my considered opinion that the republican party, especially the maga arm of it, are domestic terrorists, who support a seditious traitor who is still actively attempting to betray our national security.
As such, they do not deserve compassion, or understanding, and they definitely don't deserve friendship. They've long said they were drawing a line...I've been standing on the other side of it, waiting for them ever since.

 

[cannabineer]

Just seems divisive to me. I disagree with many of my friends about their political and personal beliefs. I would never assume to condemn them for either.

I am less interested in condemnation than awareness. That man was and is so spectacularly bad for the nation that I am surprised that an entire political party has gone rogue and still espouses his frank assault on reality. That will certainly evoke a range of sentiments, but accepting or rejecting the fact of it is imo a handy cognitive function check.

addendum: There is a crucial difference between condemning someone’s bullshit and condemning the someone. That is a serious false/loaded argument in the above. It promotes divisiveness even as you decry divisive speech. You may want to inspect that unless you want your opinions dissected.

 

[Hotrod2]

So, it is my considered opinion that the republican party, especially the maga arm of it, are domestic terrorists, who support a seditious traitor who is still actively attempting to betray our national security.
As such, they do not deserve compassion, or understanding, and they definitely don't deserve friendship. They've long said they were drawing a line...I've been standing on the other side of it, waiting for them ever since.

Well, like I said. It's your path to walk, and you're right to believe whatever you want. I can tell you from my personal experience you are not right in fact you are wrong in your supposition and your conclusion. But I neither have the time or the desire to educate you. I just come on here to watch you guys hate on people. And I hope maybe I can provide some positive input. Since most everything on here is very negative.

 

[Fogdog]

Seems to me this whole thread is about hate. And you and others talking bad about fellow Americans, if you even are an American.

No, it's about GOP MAGA fascists. Of course the subject is emotionally charged. I mean, GOP MAGA fascists are removing peoples civil rights and carrying out acts of terrorism. Just a few months ago, at a protest against police brutality against Black people in the good city of Portland Oregon a MAGA Republican came out and in an act of terrorism, he shot five, killing one. A man in the crowd the terrorist attacked drew his gun and shot the man in the hip, ending his mayhem. People tend to get upset over things like that.

It is quite natural for a rational person to be angry about the Jan 6 attempted coup and attempted murder of Trump's political enemies. What IS irrational is the anger fascists have over a baseless belief in Trump's Big Lie.

 

[Fogdog]

Well, like I said. It's your path to walk, and you're right to believe whatever you want. I can tell you from my personal experience you are not right in fact you are wrong in your supposition and your conclusion. But I neither have the time or the desire to educate you. I just come on here to watch you guys hate on people. And I hope maybe I can provide some positive input. Since most everything on here is very negative.

No, MAGA Republican fascists are hateful shitheads and must be suppressed.

 

[Hotrod2]

I'm happy for you and hope you enjoy your hate.