Comparing - Air and Water - Cure (w/pics)

[Singularity]

Greenphoenix I read somewhere, probably this thread, that cannibol(?) is water soluble and gets washed out with a water cure - which will change the bouque of the high/stone somehow.

Any thoughts on this? Do you find that it takes amber trichnome couch lock weed and gives it a cloudy trich high?

I'm going to try water cured bud with my next batch of black out budd butter/olive oil. I leave the bud in when making brownies for a touch more potency and the brownies have always been a bit bitter.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

Greenphoenix I read somewhere, probably this thread, that cannibol(?) is water soluble and gets washed out with a water cure - which will change the bouque of the high/stone somehow.

Any thoughts on this? Do you find that it takes amber trichnome couch lock weed and gives it a cloudy trich high?

I'm going to try water cured bud with my next batch of black out budd butter/olive oil. I leave the bud in when making brownies for a touch more potency and the brownies have always been a bit bitter.

Well, now, science class is in session lol ...
Three main Cannabinoids in Cannabis are THC, CBN and CBD

Let us start with CBN, which may very well be water soluble (I'm not 100% sure on that one): CBN, also known as Cannabinol, is a non-psychoactive cannabinoid found in the hemp plant Cannabis sativa. It is an oxidation product of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

Now, THC: Simply put, it's not water soluble

And finally, the issue you are addressing, which I am also by no means 100% on, CBD: Or CBD, also known as Cannabidiol. CBD is the Cannabinoid that causes the couch lock effect you speak of, although it has been proven that depending on ratios it can actually increase alertness. It is also offers a lot of potential medical benefits, as does THC, but not so much CBN. Anyway, onto the issue of losing CBD in a water cure...

Cannabidiol is insoluble in water but soluble in organic solvents. At room temperature it is a colorless crystalline solid. In strongly basic (Alkaline) medium, and the presence of air it is oxidized to a quinone. Under acidic conditions it cyclizes to THC.

So as long as you're using fairly fresh, pH 7(ish), relatively chemical free water, the CBD and THC are insoluble and therefore will not be lost. These are also the 2 main Cannabinoids that effect the brain.
How ever it is possible that a water cure will lose the CBN, which although it does bind to the CB1 and CB2 receptors in the human brain (less so than THC), it doesn't appear to do a whole lot else that we know of, how ever it could maybe have something to do with helping out the CBD bind, as CBD does not bind to the CB1 or CB2 receptors at all unlike its Cannabinoid friends.

Hopefully that's not too confusing, I got a bit side tracked from the issue itself I think haha, if you hav any questions, just ask and I'll try clear them up.

Cheers all!

P.S - Due to the fact that CBD cyclizes to THC under acid conditions, using naturally acidic water may possibly? Remove the couch lock effect and make the high a lot, well higher haha, it may provide a more psychoactive, THC high (clear/cloudy trich high). No evidence to back that up, just an after thought.

 

[ststepen420]

intresting thread but i wouldnt give up the taste, or smell, or the weight. Guess everyone has there own idea of whats better but the water shit really doesnt look nearly as good as the air dried. I wouldnt buy bud that looked that even if i did buy weed which i dont.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

intresting thread but i wouldnt give up the taste, or smell, or the weight. Guess everyone has there own idea of whats better but the water shit really doesnt look nearly as good as the air dried. I wouldnt buy bud that looked that even if i did buy weed which i dont.

Haha fair enough mate. Personal preference.
I bet if you saw it in real life you might change your mind bout buying it. It's hard to see it properly in the pictures, after it's been prepped for sale it can often look better, and physically more potent than standard bud.
However I do use water cured bud for personal use, because I prefer to smoke it, and you can smoke a spliff at the pub without anyone noticing, but when it comes to selling I sell the air cured simply because it has more weight, and therefore more profit.
However, when I need product quick, can't beat the water cure... FULLY CURED bud in 9 DAYS! Can't beat that for speed. May be able to dry that fast with air, but no way you'll get a cure like that in air in less than 30 days.

Kayword: Personal Preference

 

[Singularity]

"FULLY CURED bud in 9 DAYS!"

GP are you leaving your bud in water for 9 days and then drying, or are you leaving in water for 9 days and then drying?

As I grow only for personal use the bag appeal is meaningless to me, but the enjoyment from taste is much more important TO ME than I thought it would be. I'd rather have tastey potent bud but given the choice I'd take water cured potent straw bud over tastey air cured less potent bud.

That was a great cannascience explanation, thanks. Do you know if the trichnome gland is porus, allowing the Cannabinol to wash out? I assumed that the gland had a solid resin shell that would be water tight, but I've never read anything on the subject. It is a gland, not just a deposit of resin, so it must need air, food, and water and to expell waste.

.

.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

*I'm in a rush so may be crap answers lol*

"FULLY CURED bud in 9 DAYS!"

GP are you leaving your bud in water for 9 days and then drying, or are you leaving in water for 9 days and then drying?

I think you repeated the same thing twice lol ... I have the bud in the water for 7 days then it is hung dry for 2 days, which makes 9 days total, 9 days from chop till smokable.

That was a great cannascience explanation, thanks. Do you know if the trichnome gland is porus, allowing the Cannabinol to wash out? I assumed that the gland had a solid resin shell that would be water tight, but I've never read anything on the subject. It is a gland, not just a deposit of resin, so it must need air, food, and water and to expell waste.

Not sure, but like you say, I assume it has a kind of shell.

 

[Singularity]

"I think you repeated the same thing twice lol"

Don't tell anyone else on the forum but sometimes ... (looks around) ... I get really high before posting.

"I have the bud in the water for 7 days then it is hung dry for 2 days, which makes 9 days total, 9 days from chop till smokable."

Do you find the 2 days of drying to be important? I have been using a dehydrator with the heating element cut out, which dries anywhere from 4 to 24 hours depending on the thickness of the bud, but I've still been getting a bit of green taste and the dried water cured buds are shades of green, not black.

Run on sentence.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

"I think you repeated the same thing twice lol"

Don't tell anyone else on the forum but sometimes ... (looks around) ... I get really high before posting.

"I have the bud in the water for 7 days then it is hung dry for 2 days, which makes 9 days total, 9 days from chop till smokable."

Do you find the 2 days of drying to be important? I have been using a dehydrator with the heating element cut out, which dries anywhere from 4 to 24 hours depending on the thickness of the bud, but I've still been getting a bit of green taste and the dried water cured buds are shades of green, not black.

Haha algud, I get high before posting too! As do many of us I would guess

The 2 days of drying isn't important as far as I know, that's just how long it typically takes for the bud to dry in my setup using air pumped though the drying room and with a couple small circulation fans.
I don't know how much of a roll the drying part of it actually has in the final product.

 

[Singularity]

Do you leave any moisture in your bud?

I vaporize only so I let mine go bone dry, maybe I should leave some moisture and let it sit for a few days?

 

[DaGambler]

i've tried this with a bit. for good buds for resale, ya you wouldn't want to reduce the weight.

interestingly, you can do a water cure at any time after the material has already been dried also. so if someone else did a crappy cure on your personal stash you can correct that. also recommended for low grade stuff that you might have trouble selling if not for reducing the weight significantly w/o reducing the potency. (hope you don't have any of that.)

so you can try this before ur next harvest. and as far as personal goes, i'm deffinitely Pro not smoking anything you don't have to and avoiding a headache.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

Do you leave any moisture in your bud?

I vaporize only so I let mine go bone dry, maybe I should leave some moisture and let it sit for a few days?

I used to try to leave a bit of moisture in my bud coz I've always read it makes it better or some crap, but after actually trying so many different types of bud, grown, dried and cured by different people in different ways, I think having it bone dry is the way to go (for me at least), because... there's no chance of mold, it smokes better, it's easier to break up, it's easier to handle, and I've not noticed it being any worse than bud that's got a little moisture left in it.

recommended for low grade stuff that you might have trouble selling if not for reducing the weight significantly w/o reducing the potency. (hope you don't have any of that.)

Low grade? what's that? I thought low grade bud was wiped out in the 90's *jokes*hahaha.

 

[flabbyone]

Well, now, science class is in session lol ...
Three main Cannabinoids in Cannabis are THC, CBN and CBD

Let us start with CBN, which may very well be water soluble (I'm not 100% sure on that one): CBN, also known as Cannabinol, is a non-psychoactive cannabinoid found in the hemp plant Cannabis sativa. It is an oxidation product of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

Now, THC: Simply put, it's not water soluble

And finally, the issue you are addressing, which I am also by no means 100% on, CBD: Or CBD, also known as Cannabidiol. CBD is the Cannabinoid that causes the couch lock effect you speak of, although it has been proven that depending on ratios it can actually increase alertness. It is also offers a lot of potential medical benefits, as does THC, but not so much CBN. Anyway, onto the issue of losing CBD in a water cure...

Cannabidiol is insoluble in water but soluble in organic solvents. At room temperature it is a colorless crystalline solid. In strongly basic (Alkaline) medium, and the presence of air it is oxidized to a quinone. Under acidic conditions it cyclizes to THC.

So as long as you're using fairly fresh, pH 7(ish), relatively chemical free water, the CBD and THC are insoluble and therefore will not be lost. These are also the 2 main Cannabinoids that effect the brain.
How ever it is possible that a water cure will lose the CBN, which although it does bind to the CB1 and CB2 receptors in the human brain (less so than THC), it doesn't appear to do a whole lot else that we know of, how ever it could maybe have something to do with helping out the CBD bind, as CBD does not bind to the CB1 or CB2 receptors at all unlike its Cannabinoid friends.

Hopefully that's not too confusing, I got a bit side tracked from the issue itself I think haha, if you hav any questions, just ask and I'll try clear them up.

Cheers all!

P.S - Due to the fact that CBD cyclizes to THC under acid conditions, using naturally acidic water may possibly? Remove the couch lock effect and make the high a lot, well higher haha, it may provide a more psychoactive, THC high (clear/cloudy trich high). No evidence to back that up, just an after thought.

The acid cure is straight out of the Isomiser hash oil machine. It was suppose to make the THC bind with the cannabinols and change them to THC...I used the machine quite a few times with different qualities of pot and I never liked the oil it made nor did it make anything any better with the acid cure.
In my personal opinion, it doesn't work, at least not using the isomiser.

This is what I understand about the cannabinoids. At my age, I could be mistaken...it could be that one disease where you forget stuff...oh ya, aldzeimers...or I could just be that burned out after 50+ years of smoking pot, I mean used to smoke pot.


THC is an oil heavier then water and can not be crystallized and is not water soluble.

Both CBD and CBN are water soluble as is chlorophyll. One, and I don't remember which, is converted into the other in the ripening and curing process which is why you get more couchlock on pot that is grown out longer and/or if properly air cured. These substances for the most part are not soluble in organic solvents, mostly water and alcohol.

The chlorophyll is what gives the weed its grassy taste for the most part.

I believe this all to be correct. On another site on chemistry of drugs one guy was attempting to crystallize THC or refine it to a water soluble drug. If I can find it back, I will post a link. In the mean time, try doing a google on crystallize THC. I think the info on all this was on wikpedia, which does not make it the final word.

I think you may be mistaken on a couple of facts is all and these chemists could be wrong, but their explanation of this and other processes makes me think that they know what they are talking about. I really do not mean to step on your toes Greenphoenix.

 

[skizofrenik]

These buds seem really leafy...like they weren't clipped much at all?

 

[Master Kush]

Looks like some good shit you have there. I'm going to try this out.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

These buds seem really leafy...like they weren't clipped much at all?

Says on the first page they weren't clipped much at all. Why remove leaves that are completely coated in trichs?

 

[shepj]

Very good writeup.. personally I like the look of the water-cured bud better!

 

[Proph]

Says on the first page they weren't clipped much at all. Why remove leaves that are completely coated in trichs?

For haaaaaaaaaaash

 

[shepj]

way to revive the post from the grave. lol.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

For haaaaaaaaaaash

Haha, good point, but I don't bother with hash, I don't enjoy smoking it and it's not worth a lot of money over here because people are quite ignorant on the subject.

 

[dpjones]

Have you ever used a vaporiser?