War

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
1) to what intended effect?
2) to what likely effect?

doing what to or about No. China.
No. Same reason.
Similarly, the US has weapons manufacturing alliances out of convenience and advantage, not necessity.
That might be a component of the current definition of a superpower.
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1) To slow down or curtail production of these long-range weapons, it would be in the interests of several middle east parties to do so.
2) It might give political change a chance to take hold there, before the radical government is empowered to do something stupid.

China is technologically dependent on the allies through licensing agreements, then there are the sanctions for suppliers and countries. However high tech that is good enough for many functions is becoming ubiquitous and even a smartphone can do a lot, or be scavenged for components, so can e-waste, but it is no way to fight a war. China does 10X the trade with America (US&Can,) and Europe than it does with Russia and Iran and then you can also add in SE Asia and Japan who would side with us.

The larger point is this appears to be the way things are evolving globally, China wants peace and prosperity and I think sees a way forward using soft power in central Asia that will be very profitable and not ruffle any international feathers. It's the same for the US, EU and others, this is a way of attaining it and containing aggression, imperial or otherwise.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
No...I did not call you a name...I was sarcastically calling Zelensky a bastard, for daring to have demands while sending the best and the brightest his country has to offer off to die in a proxy war, representing NATO and the US.
Sooo...maybe I did indirectly call you a name....¿ And everyone else who can't wait till Ukraine wins the war we're too fucking cowardly to wage ourselves, to begin criticizing them?....
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My point was about something else. Memory- some of us have a long one. Stop changing the subject. BTW..Ukraine is it's own country and we're not responsible for their neighbors actions. Similar to America is it's own country, surely Ukraine is not responsible reciprocally. Couldn't help us when we needed because our democracy was crumbling which without, he would never have all the toys he wants..Russia was always going to invade Ukraine.
 
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printer

printer

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
it would seem iran has chosen sides...it's way past time that they share the full array of sanctions that russia is currently enjoying.
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Iran is under their own sanctions that are on par with Russia's. Now if Russia can receive long range weapons then I guess it is OK for Ukraine to get them also. 500 kg of high explosive material really should be able to take out a bridge.

"Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar are Iranian short-range ballistic missiles capable of striking targets at distances of 300 and 700 kilometers, respectively."

"The Zolfaghar (alternately spelled Zulfiqar) short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) is a variant of the Fateh-110 SRBM family. Developed as a part of a larger campaign to “improve the range and accuracy of current missile systems,”https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-threat-and-proliferation/todays-missile-threat/iran/zolfaghar/#_edn1 the solid-fueled Zolfaghar is reported to have a range of 700km and possess a cluster munition warhead.[ii] Some Iranian press reports have claimed the Zolfaghar is accurate within 10 meters and equipped with multiple independent reentry vehicles (MIRV), but this information has not been verified."

Fateh-110 - Warhead Type and Weight - HE (Nuclear and Biological capable),450-650 kg
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
1) To slow down or curtail production of these long-range weapons, it would be in the interests of several middle east parties to do so.
2) It might give political change a chance to take hold there, before the radical government is empowered to do something stupid.

China is technologically dependent on the allies through licensing agreements, then there are the sanctions for suppliers and countries. However high tech that is good enough for many functions is becoming ubiquitous and even a smartphone can do a lot, or be scavenged for components, so can e-waste, but it is no way to fight a war. China does 10X the trade with America (US&Can,) and Europe than it does with Russia and Iran and then you can also add in SE Asia and Japan who would side with us.

The larger point is this appears to be the way things are evolving globally, China wants peace and prosperity and I think sees a way forward using soft power in central Asia that will be very profitable and not ruffle any international feathers. It's the same for the US, EU and others, this is a way of attaining it and containing aggression, imperial or otherwise.
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Many assumptions in there that I do not share.

Your response to 2) is imo a particular miss. The likely outcome is “Israel aggressively attacking Iran to no benefit and great detriment”. They do not gain by inserting themselves into the regional metaconflict.

As for China, assuming they want peace and prosperity is pretty plainly negated by their policies in Taiwan, WestPac, and Uighur country.
They stole Western intellectual property in a fairly bald-faced way, with the likely intention and definite effect that they have indigenous capacity to manufacture, develop and deploy highest technology for both economic and physical warfare.

What they want is power, geopolitical power over the same territory regarding which Japan went to war. Unlike the Japanese, they are not in a corner regarding resources. They can play a longer softer game, but their long-term ambition is best not downplayed.
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Iran is under their own sanctions that are on par with Russia's. Now if Russia can receive long range weapons then I guess it is OK for Ukraine to get them also. 500 kg of high explosive material really should be able to take out a bridge.

"Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar are Iranian short-range ballistic missiles capable of striking targets at distances of 300 and 700 kilometers, respectively."

"The Zolfaghar (alternately spelled Zulfiqar) short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) is a variant of the Fateh-110 SRBM family. Developed as a part of a larger campaign to “improve the range and accuracy of current missile systems,”https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-threat-and-proliferation/todays-missile-threat/iran/zolfaghar/#_edn1 the solid-fueled Zolfaghar is reported to have a range of 700km and possess a cluster munition warhead.[ii] Some Iranian press reports have claimed the Zolfaghar is accurate within 10 meters and equipped with multiple independent reentry vehicles (MIRV), but this information has not been verified."

Fateh-110 - Warhead Type and Weight - HE (Nuclear and Biological capable),450-650 kg
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Biden just said he can go tougher on Iran and already has ideas in mind.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Many assumptions in there that I do not share.

Your response to 2) is imo a particular miss. The likely outcome is “Israel aggressively attacking Iran to no benefit and great detriment”. They do not gain by inserting themselves into the regional metaconflict.

As for China, assuming they want peace and prosperity is pretty plainly negated by their policies in Taiwan, WestPac, and Uighur country.
They stole Western intellectual property in a fairly bald-faced way, with the likely intention and definite effect that they have indigenous capacity to manufacture, develop and deploy highest technology for both economic and physical warfare.

What they want is power, geopolitical power over the same territory regarding which Japan went to war. Unlike the Japanese, they are not in a corner regarding resources. They can play a longer softer game, but their long-term ambition is best not downplayed.
Click to expand...
Israel regularly attacks the Iranian nuclear program, both with bombs and using cyber warfare, they recently assassinated their top scientist. Warheads on missiles are a bigger threat, it generally takes the two to project power.

China is asserting itself in what it feels is its own backyard, an imperialist notion and like everybody else is absorbing the lessons of Ukraine. China is the second largest economy in the world, but is very dependent on export and allied technologies, so far, they aren't acting too stupid, human rights violations aside. It is not much of an assumption that trouble and war with the west will fuck things up mightily for China and for no profit. That with the weakness and dependency of Russia opportunities are arising in central Asia, Kazakhstan borders with China is rich in oil and gas and has a Caspian Sea coast, China recently gave them security assurances.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Actually, the allies supplying weapons to countries surrounding Russia would be a better idea. Refurbish the old soviet shit in Ukraine when they are done with it and add in a sprinkling of, drones, Javelins, NLAWS and Stingers. Whatever Vlad has left will pay a heavy price attacking even a small neighbor with NATO or Ukrainian training, support, a good reserve and morale.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581340861362995200
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
Israel regularly attacks the Iranian nuclear program, both with bombs and using cyber warfare,
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Please provide links establishing repeated Israeli military bombing of Iranian territory or property. What is the regular interval? My search did not enlighten.
they recently assassinated their top scientist. Warheads on missiles are a bigger threat, it generally takes the two to project power.

China is asserting itself in what it feels is its own backyard, an imperialist notion and like everybody else is absorbing the lessons of Ukraine. China is the second largest economy in the world, but is very dependent on export and allied technologies, so far, they aren't acting too stupid, human rights violations aside. It is not much of an assumption that trouble and war with the west will fuck things up mightily for China and for no profit. That with the weakness and dependency of Russia opportunities are arising in central Asia, Kazakhstan borders with China is rich in oil and gas and has a Caspian Sea coast, China recently gave them security assurances.
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I take this as meaning that you trust them where I do not.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Please provide links establishing repeated Israeli military bombing of Iranian territory or property. What is the regular interval? My search did not enlighten.

I take this as meaning that you trust them where I do not.
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Israel has bombed Iranian nuclear facilities in the past, it was in the news as was the assassination of their top nuclear scientist. It impleads their acquisition of a nuke anyway it can. I don't mean they bomb the shit out of them weekly, but as they feel is required and they don't always take responsibility when they do.

For example
www.bbc.com

Iran nuclear programme: Threat of Israeli strike grows

As Iran's nuclear programme forges ahead, some see Israel running out of options to thwart it.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
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Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
As far as ( PGM ) the ZOLFAGHAR is a very formidable weapon system - with even longer range variants. Not sure how many will pop up for use but their range depending on variant can hit targets at 700-1000 km . Ukraine’s need for Anti-Missile tech is a given as VLAD looks to source more precision guided missiles to buffer his obvious lack of them in his own stockpile.

Here is an interesting look at that missile system.

 
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Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
Perhaps Belarus may have forgotten the installed Patriot Missile batteries pointing in there direction at Poland’s border.

Belarus has at least 40,000 plus soldiers and Soviet - era weapons. Including T-62s and T-55 tanks / MiG 29 and SU models , attack helicopters. Most easily defended against with antitank / air defense shoulder fire weapons . Obviously a bit more skilled than the common rural conscripts that Russia have been grabbing from the streets. They also field the same Soviet BMP / BMD tracked vehicles - something say a TOW rocket couldn’t handle.


921555E0-B060-4D42-8ADD-70E825365795.jpeg
394BA99A-96F1-40CD-8C1E-CD6B353AF1DF.jpeg
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Actually, the allies supplying weapons to countries surrounding Russia would be a better idea. Refurbish the old soviet shit in Ukraine when they are done with it and add in a sprinkling of, drones, Javelins, NLAWS and Stingers. Whatever Vlad has left will pay a heavy price attacking even a small neighbor with NATO or Ukrainian training, support, a good reserve and morale.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581340861362995200
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Can not even supply their own troops and he wants to supply other countries to pick a fight with the US? No wonder Russia is not doing well.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
Israel has bombed Iranian nuclear facilities in the past, it was in the news as was the assassination of their top nuclear scientist. It impleads their acquisition of a nuke anyway it can. I don't mean they bomb the shit out of them weekly, but as they feel is required and they don't always take responsibility when they do.

For example
www.bbc.com

Iran nuclear programme: Threat of Israeli strike grows

As Iran's nuclear programme forges ahead, some see Israel running out of options to thwart it.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...
If there is no interval, it is not regular. I could not find one confirmed example of IDF bombing an Iranian target, either territory or flagged vessel.

This is why I ask you for links to incidents. So far I cannot find any bombings by Israel on Iran, let alone anything regular or even customary.

The Natanz incident involved no bomb or missile that I can verify. In fact, it could have been a cyberattack, which is disqualified.

As for the link you did post? Oh come on! (insert gif here) It discusses a hypothetical situation.
This is the sort of weasel bullshit diversion from the specific request for which I customarily, though not regularly, tear a troll a figurative new orifice.

I have found some discussion of a proxy war between the two nations. I did not think it needed to be said that such plainly is out of category. Now I am saying it, as I don’t trust you will stay true to your claim, which I quote here:

DIY-HP-LED said:
Israel regularly attacks the Iranian nuclear program, both with bombs and …
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Ignoring the adverb for now, please provide a text link to a recent incident in which Israel verifiably bombed a nuclear asset on Iranian territory. Don’t invoke Mossad; that is definitively not verifiable.
 
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