DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
A general thread for all things Canadian, politics, international affairs and events.
Canadian Stuff
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DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
China is trying to reach out and touch our elections. I think the democratic countries of the world need to unite against this kind of threat, attack one, they attack all in a NATO like alliance. Try this shit and get sanctioned by a block of say 40 or 50 of the worlds richest countries.
www.bbc.com
Trudeau accuses China of 'aggressive' election interference
Mr Trudeau accused Beijing of playing "aggressive games" with democracies and of targeting Canadian institutions.
It comes as local media report that Canadian intelligence identified a "clandestine network" of Beijing-backed candidates at recent elections.
At least 11 candidates were supported by China in the 2019 federal elections, officials reportedly told Mr Trudeau.
A Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said it has "no interest" in Canada's internal affairs.
Citing unnamed intelligence officials, local broadcaster Global News reported that Beijing had directed funds to the candidates and that Chinese operatives had acted as campaign advisers to many candidates.
In one case, funding of C$250,000 (£160,000) was directed through the office of an Ontario-based provincial MP.
The operation, which was reportedly directed from China's consulate in Toronto, also sought to place operatives within the offices of serving MPs in an attempt to influence policy, the outlet alleged.
And efforts were also made to "co-opt and corrupt" former Canadian officials in a bid to gain influence within political circles.
The attempted interference is believed to have targeted both major political parties - Mr Trudeau's Liberal party and the opposition Conservative party. However, it is unclear whether the operation was successful.
"We have taken significant measures to strengthen the integrity of our elections processes and our systems, and will continue to invest in the fight against election interference, against foreign interference of our democracies and institutions," Mr Trudeau told reporters on Monday.
"Unfortunately, we're seeing countries, state actors from around the world, whether it's China or others, are continuing to play aggressive games with our institutions, with our democracies," he added.
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said China has no interest in meddling in Canadian elections.
"State-to-state relations can only be built on mutual respect, equality and mutual benefit," he told a press briefing.
"Canada should stop making remarks that hurt China-Canada relations," he added.
The reports come after authorities said they were investigating accusations that China had opened unofficial "police" stations on Canadian soil.
Last month, Royal Canadian Mounted Police said they were investigating reports of "criminal activity in relation to so-called 'police' stations", which have also been reported in a number of European countries.
Several EU states, including Ireland and the Netherlands, have already ordered China to close the police posts, which have reportedly been used to pressure opponents of the government to return to China and face criminal charges.
Dutch media found evidence that the so-called overseas service stations, which promise to provide diplomatic services, were being used to try to silence Chinese dissidents in Europe.
Trudeau accuses China of 'aggressive' election interference
It follows reports that Canada has identified 11 Beijing-funded candidates at the 2019 elections.
www.bbc.com
Trudeau accuses China of 'aggressive' election interference
Mr Trudeau accused Beijing of playing "aggressive games" with democracies and of targeting Canadian institutions.
It comes as local media report that Canadian intelligence identified a "clandestine network" of Beijing-backed candidates at recent elections.
At least 11 candidates were supported by China in the 2019 federal elections, officials reportedly told Mr Trudeau.
A Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said it has "no interest" in Canada's internal affairs.
Citing unnamed intelligence officials, local broadcaster Global News reported that Beijing had directed funds to the candidates and that Chinese operatives had acted as campaign advisers to many candidates.
In one case, funding of C$250,000 (£160,000) was directed through the office of an Ontario-based provincial MP.
The operation, which was reportedly directed from China's consulate in Toronto, also sought to place operatives within the offices of serving MPs in an attempt to influence policy, the outlet alleged.
And efforts were also made to "co-opt and corrupt" former Canadian officials in a bid to gain influence within political circles.
The attempted interference is believed to have targeted both major political parties - Mr Trudeau's Liberal party and the opposition Conservative party. However, it is unclear whether the operation was successful.
"We have taken significant measures to strengthen the integrity of our elections processes and our systems, and will continue to invest in the fight against election interference, against foreign interference of our democracies and institutions," Mr Trudeau told reporters on Monday.
"Unfortunately, we're seeing countries, state actors from around the world, whether it's China or others, are continuing to play aggressive games with our institutions, with our democracies," he added.
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said China has no interest in meddling in Canadian elections.
"State-to-state relations can only be built on mutual respect, equality and mutual benefit," he told a press briefing.
"Canada should stop making remarks that hurt China-Canada relations," he added.
The reports come after authorities said they were investigating accusations that China had opened unofficial "police" stations on Canadian soil.
Last month, Royal Canadian Mounted Police said they were investigating reports of "criminal activity in relation to so-called 'police' stations", which have also been reported in a number of European countries.
Several EU states, including Ireland and the Netherlands, have already ordered China to close the police posts, which have reportedly been used to pressure opponents of the government to return to China and face criminal charges.
Dutch media found evidence that the so-called overseas service stations, which promise to provide diplomatic services, were being used to try to silence Chinese dissidents in Europe.
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CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
This is a really tough problem to resolve. I can't imagine getting enough countries to form any kind of alliance similar to Nato, but I also don't think it's needed - at least not yet. I would like CSIS to have the ability to speak openly about interference by foreign actors, allow them to name politicians/institutions, if there is information indicating those politicians/institutions were assisted by foreign actors, warned by CSIS, and didn't take CSIS advice to help mitigate it. I would also hope if there is intelligence of diplomats breaking our laws, that they should be expelled without delay. Our laws are pretty weak in this area, hard to talk with other countries about a bigger response unless we get our own house in order first.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
The EU, Japan and other democratic countries might want to unite their clout with us and perhaps even the Americans, depending on the results tonight. Just us sanctioning China won't have much of an impact, but the more countries in the defensive alliance the more effective it will be. It would be just one of many things we would do, but the Americans regulating social media for their own survival will have the biggest impact.
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
I do like the idea of presenting a united front of democratic countries, but it is such a complex issue compared to an alliance like NATO. Proving an attack by force on a country, be it a declared war or "SpEcIaL MiLiTaRy OpErAtIoN" is pretty straight forward. Political interference is not, especially when dealing with countries that essentially own and operate companies located here. Society is having enough trouble agreeing on the simple stuff that I'm worried about all our survival. I do think it may be time to change how we allow trade with other countries, 'Freeland Doctrine', and think it may offer some protection and change foreign influence to some extent.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
NATO needs a large, well equipped, well manned cyber security contingent, to take the online war directly back to those waging it.
let them taste ddos attacks, backdoor attacks, let them deal with malignant viruses in their hardware...let the russians and the chinese deal with an army of infoirmation bots, not spreading lies, but telling the truth to all their citizens.
if they find bot farms outside china or russia, shutthem down, and arrest the ones running them. put them on trial as enemies of world peace.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Can you imagine if our governments allowed us to go hog wild as a response to their attack on us? With how many computers we have collectively to use in this new form of warfare.
Russia, China, the Saudi's, Iran, North Korea, etc, they don't want to see our citizens pissed off and unleashed. For real look what we did to Iran and Afghanistan after the Saudi's attacked us on 9/11.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Vlad used hackers and cybercriminals as internet privateers, they even had code to avoid attacking Russian computers based on the language selected. Attack and steal from the west all you want, but don't touch Russia. I guess with the sudden new reality many of those mostly young people are on the wrong side of the fence now and the scrutiny of everything coming out of Russia and sanctions must be bad for business. They are a force that is being increasingly unleased on Vlad by increasingly pissed off Russians. This isn't Stalin's era, they've had a good look and taste of the west, there is the internet and cellphones, while the Russian language broadcast media and news pouring in from Russia's borders will increase. Losing the war, economic collapse and Ukrainian post war prosperity will lead to cultural and political change in Russia and possible dissolution.
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine our world where cyberwarfare ramps up and events like Stuxnet become the norm. Hospitals, water treatment, electricty production, all energy infrastructure, all transportation infrastructure(especially rail and air travel) would be viable targets. This is not be something the West will be able to win quickly, and to be honest I don't have much faith in the resolve of any democracy to sustain attacks for any length of time. Vlad has shown everyone he is fine with cannon fodder, so he is only going to protect items important to him and doesn't need to worry about everyone. All opposition so far has been shown the window, poisoned, or jailed. Xi, little rocket man, Khamenei, etc are in basically the same position.
If the Five Eyes would share intelligence with the public by naming the nations attacking the alliance, this should prevent it from becoming a partisan issue in individual countries and mitigate subversion via social media. Let each country decide what they want to do with that information, whether that be suspend trade with a nation attacking or a simply acknowledge it's happening, or nothing at all. Just get that information to the citizens, and let us citizens deal with our own politicians in our respective countries about the proper response, without having to worry if that information is tainted.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I wonder what caused that Canadian lawyer Poliquin to collapse at a hearing ? Anyone have any updates?
Wasn't he the same guy chasing those bad disobedient truckers in Canada around for trying to halt the "vaccine pass" ?
Some people have suggested it's karmic, but I'm not saying it was a reaction to a jab or anything, cuz y'know those things could never happen when you trust the science!
Wasn't he the same guy chasing those bad disobedient truckers in Canada around for trying to halt the "vaccine pass" ?
Some people have suggested it's karmic, but I'm not saying it was a reaction to a jab or anything, cuz y'know those things could never happen when you trust the science!
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
Some people have suggested that one should not feed a troll, but trolls don't just go away, they prey on the weak and try to recruit others to burn it all down.
Your lawyer example, wouldn't karma be if laws were created to limit where vaxxed people could go? I have always understood karma to be receiving the ill fate one person places on another, hence the horn honkers (torture people with noise) and tinnitus (being tortured with noise only they hear)? A good example of karma, in my opinion, would be what happened to former Pennsylvania Rep. Tim Murphy.
I don't wish for bad things on people that believe differently than me, I have nothing but love and concern for my neighbours and community. While I didn't vote for certain politicians whether it be federally or provincially; and have been personally affected by their decisions; I still believe they were logical and trying to protect society as a whole. I'm pretty certain my Prime Minister and Premier didn't enjoy having to make restrictions that would destroy the economies they would have to answer to the voters about, and did what was necessary to limit the damage and death in the communities they serve.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
If you love your neighbor, it's probably a good idea not make their choices for them or prop up people that will, like Trudeau and the collapsing lawyer guy.
People can believe anything they want, it's when they force those beliefs on others it can get contentious.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I can just people that think like you during the Blitz in London protesting it was your right to leave your curtains open at night to become a target of German bombers if you so choose and damn the neighbours that would become targets too.
Selfishness is not the way to live in a society and have it thrive or survive.
I wonder how many anti Covid vaccine people happily roll up their sleeves to be able to travel to many foreign countries they couldn't go to without proof of certain vaccines. Hypocritical to say the least.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
Provide an example of where a choice is being forced upon someone? Not a single person was forced to be vaccinated that I am aware of. The government had to prevent the health care system from collapsing, and that's not hyperbole, look what happened when Alberta lifted mandates prematurely. Were there some missteps along the way, sure, but was the intent to protect society, yes. If I start doing something that can endanger my neighbour or community, they have every right, and even an obligation to prevent me from causing destruction that affects them and others. That's what makes this a civilized society.
I have yet to come across someone that didn't understand the concept of why there are laws that prohibit driving while impaired on public roads or requiring their genitals to be covered while in public. Those laws are not designed to protect the individual from doing that, it's to protect everyone else in society. Is that so hard to understand? Society does not care if while impaired someone crashes their truck into a tree on there own property and is injured, or in a private area wants to hang out with their wang out and gets sunburned; but the moment an impaired driver crashes into a mini-van killing three generations in a single family, or you hang out with wang out near a day care or primary school, society should and does take action to prevent that from happening again.
So, do you believe you should be able to drive on public roads while impaired and/or hang out with your wang out near a primary school?