Microbe Tea for growth

D

danion

Member
Hi everybody

I would like to know if I am right or not and if it is possible to make a more focused microbe tea for growth adding a bit of molasses, humus, a little kelp, fishmeal… and endomycorrhizae, but I have read that endomycorrhizae can’t be reproduced in teas, is this true?

my idea is to try to create the maximum colonization of mycorrhizae and then in flowering start adding bacteria to protect the root mass, separating the type of fungi and bacteria in each stage, to maximize the benefits of each

I don't know if it's silly to do what I want to do…
I have also read that the endomycorrhizae that work the most are those of the glomus and azos group
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
You want balance.


"Dispensing the concept of good and bad, Jadam tries to bring the concept of "balance" back into farming. Buying particular "good" microbe is what the corporations want you to do. Reviving "balance" of microbes is the way nature works. Diversity of microbes will result in diversity of nutrients, because microbial excretion is what makes up nutrients."

en.jadam.kr

3. Jadam philosophy 2, Good and Bad are One - JADAM Organic Farming

"Good and bad are one" means that values are relative. There is nothing absolute...
en.jadam.kr en.jadam.kr
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
You want balance.


"Dispensing the concept of good and bad, Jadam tries to bring the concept of "balance" back into farming. Buying particular "good" microbe is what the corporations want you to do. Reviving "balance" of microbes is the way nature works. Diversity of microbes will result in diversity of nutrients, because microbial excretion is what makes up nutrients."

en.jadam.kr

3. Jadam philosophy 2, Good and Bad are One - JADAM Organic Farming

"Good and bad are one" means that values are relative. There is nothing absolute...
en.jadam.kr en.jadam.kr
Click to expand...
Does the microbes diet have any affect on that, or do certain microbes, eat only certain things?
 
D

danion

Member
xtsho said:
You want balance.


"Dispensing the concept of good and bad, Jadam tries to bring the concept of "balance" back into farming. Buying particular "good" microbe is what the corporations want you to do. Reviving "balance" of microbes is the way nature works. Diversity of microbes will result in diversity of nutrients, because microbial excretion is what makes up nutrients."

en.jadam.kr

3. Jadam philosophy 2, Good and Bad are One - JADAM Organic Farming

"Good and bad are one" means that values are relative. There is nothing absolute...
en.jadam.kr en.jadam.kr
Click to expand...
So according to Mr. Youngsang Cho theory, is it better to have all kinds of mycorrhizae?
even knowing that there are many that do not interact with cannabis or that are not ideal for many types of plants (ectomycorrhizae for example)

All I ask comes because, in normal agriculture, the one that plants corn, vegetables, etc., they mainly use the glomus family (intraradices and mossae) and azos (Azospirillum brasilense and Azotobacter chroococcum) mainly, and there are many studies that indicate the benefits of these , then you look for brands not focused on cannabis, that sell these products, and a 5L bottle of the same component that a cannabis company sells you a 300gr bag is worth proportionally 1/8 part...
 
Y

youraveragehorticulturist

Well-Known Member
I add mycos right to the roots at transplant.

Then I brew teas later for bacteria and maybe (hopefully) what ever other fungus grows in compost and EWC.

I've read that myco fungi don't reproduce when you brew them in water. But getting the spores wet does soften their outer casing and get them "ready" to attach to roots and do their thing.

And some brands of mycos include humic acid and/or kelp extract as a little nutrient charge to get the fungus established.

So your idea isn't totally crazy.

I'd probably brew the molasses, kelp, fish meal and hummus first. Then right near the end add the mycos shortly before you apply.
 
D

danion

Member
youraveragehorticulturist said:
I add mycos right to the roots at transplant.

Then I brew teas later for bacteria and maybe (hopefully) what ever other fungus grows in compost and EWC.

I've read that myco fungi don't reproduce when you brew them in water. But getting the spores wet does soften their outer casing and get them "ready" to attach to roots and do their thing.

And some brands of mycos include humic acid and/or kelp extract as a little nutrient charge to get the fungus established.

So your idea isn't totally crazy.

I'd probably brew the molasses, kelp, fish meal and hummus first. Then right near the end add the mycos shortly before you apply.
Click to expand...
Basically this is how I do it, mykos and azos in transplants and in that order and lastly the mycorrhizae, bacteria, etc. in tea

but hey, looking for more information, I see that as you have commented, it is absurd to make teas with endomycorrhizae, which work in contact with the root

so I'll just keep adding azos every 7-10 days while I'm growing, and once it starts to flower I'll start with bacteria so they can fix themselves to the roots, I'll try to see if I see results...
 
Funkentelechy

Funkentelechy

Well-Known Member
I don't think there is anything wrong with your plan as in I don't think anything bad would result from this approach, but I don't think that there is any benefit to separating the type of fungi and bacteria in each stage.

There is a growing body of research on root exudates and rhizosphere biology, specifically how plants are able to alter soil biology to suit their needs. Plants produce exudates from the root tip, root exudates are substances in the rhizosphere that are secreted by the roots of living plants, the rhizosphere is the zone of soil surrounding a plant root. Plants produce different exudates depending on the makeup of the soil and the age of the plant, microbes are attracted to and consume the root exudates. Root exudates may also play a role in defense mechanisms from insects or pathogens via plant to plant communication through root networks. Research suggests that plants are able to attract and colonize different bacteria and fungi based on the plant's needs and stage of growth. It's hard or basically impossible to predict which bacteria and fungi would be the very most beneficial to a plant at a given stage of growth, but luckily there is a biological mechanism for this and it's been going on for longer than we as a species have existed. The plant "knows" what it needs far better than we do of course all we have to do is provide the tools to the plant to meet those needs.

Long story short it's my opinion that it is best to provide as broad a spectrum of bacteria and fungi as possible through all stages of growth. For this, I think that compost is far superior to pre-packaged products but if compost is unavailable then I would provide as broad of a spectrum of commercially available microbes as possible through all stages of growth and let the plant decide what it needs and when it gets it.
 
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Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Keep your tea recipe simple; adding lots of things does not necessarily make it any better. There are different teas for different applications: you can brew a fungal tea or a microbe tea but trying to both at once usually results in muddy brown water. Keep it simple:
Brew an aact to keep the microbial party rocking. Use granular mycorrhizae at each transplant by sprinkling directly into the hole and place the root ball in contact with it. Ez breezy
 
D

danion

Member
Funkentelechy said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with your plan as in I don't think anything bad would result from this approach, but I don't think that there is any benefit to separating the type of fungi and bacteria in each stage.

There is a growing body of research on root exudates and rhizosphere biology, specifically how plants are able to alter soil biology to suit their needs. Plants produce exudates from the root tip, root exudates are substances in the rhizosphere that are secreted by the roots of living plants, the rhizosphere is the zone of soil surrounding a plant root. Plants produce different exudates depending on the makeup of the soil and the age of the plant, microbes are attracted to and consume the root exudates. Root exudates may also play a role in defense mechanisms from insects or pathogens via plant to plant communication through root networks. Research suggests that plants are able to attract and colonize different bacteria and fungi based on the plant's needs and stage of growth. It's hard or basically impossible to predict which bacteria and fungi would be the very most beneficial to a plant at a given stage of growth, but luckily there is a biological mechanism for this and it's been going on for longer than we as a species have existed. The plant "knows" what it needs far better than we do of course all we have to do is provide the tools to the plant to meet those needs.

Long story short it's my opinion that it is best to provide as broad a spectrum of bacteria and fungi as possible through all stages of growth. For this, I think that compost is far superior to pre-packaged products but if compost is unavailable then I would provide as broad of a spectrum of commercially available microbes as possible through all stages of growth and let the plant decide what it needs and when it gets it.
Click to expand...

I got this idea from comments that cannabis plants take advantage of certain types of mycorrhizae.
then there is what you comment, that if instead of giving a few types, you give more variety of types, then the plant can take what it wants
 
Fallguy111

Fallguy111

Well-Known Member
What I understand is once your roots have been inoculated with myco they stay infected for the life of that plant. Is this true? Do different strains of mycorrizae battle each other for dominance?
 
T

Toka416

Well-Known Member
am curious about this as well. I was thinking wood chunks and mulch mixed into peat moss then topped off with more wood mulch and chunks. Then innoculate the layer below the mulch and keep it moist. Never tried it but id bet it would grow a bunch of stuff. Will it be myco dominate i dont know.
 
amneziaHaze

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
danion said:
Hi everybody

I would like to know if I am right or not and if it is possible to make a more focused microbe tea for growth adding a bit of molasses, humus, a little kelp, fishmeal… and endomycorrhizae, but I have read that endomycorrhizae can’t be reproduced in teas, is this true?

my idea is to try to create the maximum colonization of mycorrhizae and then in flowering start adding bacteria to protect the root mass, separating the type of fungi and bacteria in each stage, to maximize the benefits of each

I don't know if it's silly to do what I want to do…
I have also read that the endomycorrhizae that work the most are those of the glomus and azos group
Click to expand...
Just keep it oksiganated they will live.i get too much of them in hydro
 
Funkentelechy

Funkentelechy

Well-Known Member
Fallguy111 said:
What I understand is once your roots have been inoculated with myco they stay infected for the life of that plant. Is this true? Do different strains of mycorrizae battle each other for dominance?
Click to expand...
Yes, I've read that this is the case and it starts even before the roots are inoculated. Seeds themselves contain microbes(microbes include Viruses, Bacteria, Archaea, Fungi, and Protists) that are distinct to cannabis. There are groups of microbes that are specific to the seeds, the roots, and other various parts of the plant. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7143057/figure/microorganisms-08-00355-f001/ And, of course, different soil contains different microbial communities, some of these microbes being endemic to specific regions.

Because some plants are fungally dominant and others prefer bacterially dominant soil some folks believe that you should try to focus on creating a soil biome that is either bacterial or fungally dominant, depending on the plant species, others say that all plants need both and that there is a symbiotic relationship between fungus and bacteria. I'm not sure what to think, but I tend to take a naturalistic approach and provide as much diversity as possible.
The interactions between plants and beneficial microbes is still a developing science, and I definitely don't have the answers to a lot of these questions. I believe that a lot will come out about this subject in the next decade as food production becomes a more pressing issue as a result of population increase. We will need to learn to produce more food from less space in the future.
 
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Letstrip

Letstrip

Well-Known Member
Plant probiotics are most certainly a developing topic. There are a few products that provide huge counts of bacteria and claims include increasing terpenes etc. I'm using a local microbe liquid product that contains a photosytheic bacteria called rhodopseudomonas palustris.

Im using it outside in the ground and my plants are growing very vigourously for a variety of reasons, but one of them i believe is due to the microbes. I mix it with my fish/seaweed fert aswell as my liquid humate/fulvic acids and molasses. The aim is to feed the soil and build a healthy mini eco system. The soil also contains native (to my country) mychorizal fungi which i managed to find online and sprinked around the root zone. The soil contains worm castings, compost and mushroom compost and an organic wholeistic veg powder blend. I dont know if any of this would matter so much if i was using salts, but i feel that bringing all aspects of soil and plant health together will provide the best results for plants rather than focusing on sythetics. Time will tell!

Link to a study
www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | The Photosynthetic Bacterium Rhodopseudomonas palustris Strain PS3 Exerts Plant Growth-Promoting Effects by Stimulating Nitrogen Uptake and Elevating Auxin Levels in Expanding Leaves

Rhodopseudomonas palustris strain PS3, a phototrophic bacterium, was originally isolated from a paddy field located in Taipei city, Taiwan, and showed positi...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org

The Photosynthetic Bacterium Rhodopseudomonas palustris Strain PS3 Exerts Plant Growth-Promoting Effects by Stimulating Nitrogen Uptake and Elevating Auxin Levels in Expanding Leaves
 
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Letstrip

Letstrip

Well-Known Member
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