What Would an Evangelical Christian Country Be Like

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

More Americans are rejecting Christianity - just like the Founders - Tuberville blames the left

On Newsmax's “The Balance”, host Eric Bolling told his guest, Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-AL) the invasion of brown people from the South could be called the Great Replacement Theory. But he was not a racist because in his version of the conspiracy, this horde was not replacing whites but replacing conservatives.

Tuberville replied that he agreed. However, he maintained the left would be drailed in their attempt to rid America of Christianity because many of these immigrants were more conservative and Christian than liberals believed. Bolling’s passion is political. Tuberville’s passion is religious. And it is typical of someone whose understanding of the role of religion in American political life is so completely wrong.

The Founders did not create America as a Christian nation. Their values were rooted in philosophy and history — not in religion. Thomas Jefferson’s language in the Declaration of Independence was informed by John Locke’s belief in natural and inalienable rights of life, liberty, and property. Or, as they became in the Declaration, “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

Montesquieu, an admirer of Locke, was the first to outline the concept of the separation of powers — the governing philosophy the Founders used to structure the Constitution.

“When the legislative and executive powers are united in the sameperson, or in the same body of magistrates, there can be no liberty...there is no liberty if the powers of judging is not separated from thelegislative and executive... there would be an end to everything, if thesame man or the same body... were to exercise those three powers.”
John Jacques Rousseau’s belief that sovereignty was not vested in a monarch but collectively in the people themselves — and that the people then exercised their “general will” to make laws for the “public good” — underpinned the Constitution. And it informed Lincoln’s observation in the Gettysburg Address that the government was “of the people, by the people, for the people."

None of this political philosophy comes from the Bible. And none of these men could be described as unquestioning Christians. Locke appreciated the divinity of the Bible but thought that an individual’s freedom of religion demanded a separation of church and state.

”Because liberty of conscience was an inalienable right, individuals would not grant the state authority over spiritual matters.
Montesquieu thought that law should be manmade, and while religion could provide guidance, it should not be a basis for law.

“Human laws, made to direct the will, ought to give precepts, and not counsels; religion, made to influence the heart, should give many counsels, and few precepts.”
Rousseau was a Catholic before converting to Calvinism. However, we must note that his famous work “The Social Contract” was reviled by the faithful for its religious heterodoxy.

Now we have that civics lesson out the way, let us contemplate the state of Christianity in America today. And discuss if the modern political philosopher, Senator Tuberville, is on to something when he says the left is “trying to wipe Christianity out in this country.”

It is fair to question Tommy Tuberville’s ability for insightful political analysis. After all, he once declared the three branches of government were “the House, the Senate, and the Executive.” And that “our government was not set up for one group to have all three branches of government.” Really? By Tuberville’s definition of the three branches, that has happened frequently. The first time was in 1796 when the Federalists won the presidency (John Adams), the Senate, and the House.

It is hard to rebut Tuberville’s claim because he provides no proof that liberals are doing anything of the kind. He does not even outline the atheist strategy for tearing down the temple. But that is a conservative for you. “I feel it is, so therefore it is — even if there is no evidence it is.”

Statistically, there is evidence that Christianity is on the skids in America. People confessing to being Christian have declined from 90% in the 1970s to 64% today. However, when you judge religiosity by attendance at houses of worship, the number is a dismal 47% (and that includes Jews, Muslims, et al.)

Even these numbers are probably overstating the case. In many religious communities, social pressure inspires atheists to go to church. And many people are Christian by habit, not conviction. And it is not getting better for the pro-religion folks.

Statistical modeling bases future Christian belief on four sets of conditions. By 2070, the best result is that 54% of Americans will be Christian. The worst has the number at 35%.

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Is it the fault of liberals that the religious are rushing for the exits? Hardly. What have Democrats done? What laws have they passed? Perhaps some municipalities have enacted “anti-crèche on government property” laws. But no matter what, it is small potatoes.

Overall America’s governing bodies remain overwhelmingly Christian. Trump is the only unChristian President in living memory, and Congress is 88% Christian. Conservative Christian legal philosophy dominates the Supreme Court. And 40% of Americans would not vote for their party’s well-qualified candidate if that candidate were an atheist. The only group that does worse is socialists.

Tuberville says his problem is that the left is trying to destroy Christianity. His actual problem is that many Americans — a majority I warrant, including many Christians — do not want to live in a theocracy.

The Founders were crystal clear on the matter. They would have thought a religious government was an evil anathema. They lived in a time when Europeans were subjugated to monarchs in cahoots with state religions, crushing both the individual’s spiritual and temporal souls. They had nothing against religion. They just thought it should stick to its lane.

Most modern liberals — many religious — think the same. Prayer belongs in church, the privacy of your own home, or even the workplace if you keep it to yourself. If a private prayer gets the work juices flowing, why not? However, it does not belong on the 50-yard line of a high school football field — or in science class. Or, heaven forbid, directing American law-making.

If Tuberville wants to know why so many Americans are bailing on their faith, he should look in the mirror. And ask if he is the best representative for the majority of Americans who think that people should be allowed to love, live with, and marry whatever consenting adult they choose. Who believe that an individual's gender identity is their own damn business. Who view a woman’s bodily and reproductive autonomy as inviolate. Who think LGBTQ+ youth should be recognized as healthy, normal citizens and not defective — who should be encouraged to be who they are and not hounded to the point of suicide.

These horrible people and their perverted take on religion may paradoxically be the cause of the people’s increasing rejection of Christianity. I have no evidence that the ascent of the Moral Majority caused America’s declining religiosity. However, the embrace of religious fundamentalism as social policy by one political party correlates with the shedding of faith by an increasing number of Americans. And the connection is worth exploring.

Meanwhile, Tuberville and his shrinking, increasingly desperate band of bigots will remain blind to the role their fanaticism may have played in convincing many Americans that they should no longer associate with that brand of hate.

The moral of the story might be that if more Christians in America had acted Christian, there would be more Christians in America.
 

Antidote Man

Well-Known Member
We live in a puritanical society and the evidence is everywhere. Make one mistake and you're shamed and your life is destroyed. Christianity has been the very foundation for moral infrastructure for the past 2000 years, to such extent that people who are taught math, science and reason continue to deny the truth. We created what's right and wrong. We uphold it. And it's also evolving. Give people better answers and they will deny them. Science is proving just about everything we were taught in the bible is bullshit. I think even back then, people knew something was funny with the church. All our greatest thinkers must have questioned if the entire design was to uphold a monarchy/kingdoms/empires/capitalism. Religion is for the lower and middle class. Answers for the uneducated. And maybe for the peace of mind of the rich. I think Christianity is evolving to try and make sense to believers who are evolving toward reasons and scientific analyses but aren't quite there yet. We are certainly living in a Christianized country, white, stores close on Sunday, etc.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
We live in a puritanical society and the evidence is everywhere. Make one mistake and you're shamed and your life is destroyed. Christianity has been the very foundation for moral infrastructure for the past 2000 years, to such extent that people who are taught math, science and reason continue to deny the truth. We created what's right and wrong. We uphold it. And it's also evolving. Give people better answers and they will deny them. Science is proving just about everything we were taught in the bible is bullshit. I think even back then, people knew something was funny with the church. All our greatest thinkers must have questioned if the entire design was to uphold a monarchy/kingdoms/empires/capitalism. Religion is for the lower and middle class. Answers for the uneducated. And maybe for the peace of mind of the rich. I think Christianity is evolving to try and make sense to believers who are evolving toward reasons and scientific analyses but aren't quite there yet. We are certainly living in a Christianized country, white, stores close on Sunday, etc.
I think it is a dynamic situation driven by technological process, we are part of one giant social experiment in human progress. Sometimes it's one step back and two forward, but the trend is clear, not all western liberal democracies are like America, progress is being made towards more inclusive and just societies. There are forces in every country that resist change and dying empires, even those of the mind and legend. White America is one such dying "empire" as globalization is turning liberal democracies into multicultural societies with inclusion and a seat at the table of power for different kinds of people. Russia can't be a liberal democracy as long as it holds onto its empire created in the 18th and 19th centuries and expanded by Stalin. Freedom is the price Russians pay for this because with liberal democracy would come dissolution as some of the Asian republics left.

Many white Americans obviously have a greater cause that drives their behavior and causes them to vote against their own interests, they will sacrifice for their cold civil war. The tribalism displayed by the GOP is the darker side of an instinctive human social/emotional propensity, tribalism. Humans organize and cooperate when faced with a threat or problem and we can see this phenomenon at its best in Ukraine with the common purpose and national cohesion. The same tribal sets of behaviors drive both the Magats and Ukrainians, one is based on fear and bullshit and the other on actual reality.
 

Antidote Man

Well-Known Member
I think it is a dynamic situation driven by technological process, we are part of one giant social experiment in human progress. Sometimes it's one step back and two forward, but the trend is clear, not all western liberal democracies are like America, progress is being made towards more inclusive and just societies. There are forces in every country that resist change and dying empires, even those of the mind and legend. White America is one such dying "empire" as globalization is turning liberal democracies into multicultural societies with inclusion and a seat at the table of power for different kinds of people. Russia can't be a liberal democracy as long as it holds onto its empire created in the 18th and 19th centuries and expanded by Stalin. Freedom is the price Russians pay for this because with liberal democracy would come dissolution as some of the Asian republics left.

Many white Americans obviously have a greater cause that drives their behavior and causes them to vote against their own interests, they will sacrifice for their cold civil war. The tribalism displayed by the GOP is the darker side of an instinctive human social/emotional propensity, tribalism. Humans organize and cooperate when faced with a threat or problem and we can see this phenomenon at its best in Ukraine with the common purpose and national cohesion. The same tribal sets of behaviors drive both the Magats and Ukrainians, one is based on fear and bullshit and the other on actual reality.
I agree with a lot of that.

I've been to Moscow and my ex is from there, interesting place.

But really Russia isn't so different than the US if you examine it. You can keep counting money in every country. More means more wherever you go. Better quality of life, although there are also non-monetary things that can increase the quality of your life, but money does more than anything, looks, talent, etc. By far. Moral differences exist for different reasons, as different countries have evolved differently over the course of their histories, but no matter how things change socially, and perhaps even through the changes in law, wealth is a process that's been developed long since before the church, being a combination of cost = efficiency/practicality, effort, and value (Which can be different person to person). But within reason - most people in the jungles of New Guinea are also going to agree - a gold bar isn't worth the same as a log of shit. The church is ruled by the financial institutions. Not the other way around. Morality is a big dump when money is in the picture. I think the general equations of my words, and also yours, lead us back to who has the most, the best, nobody will go against these ideas and so we have life on planet earth, an evolving process of evolution as we plug in the numbers and watch it evolve us into a closer connection with reality - So do we evolve as people faster or slower than we can evolve our ideas? Aside from those that are ignorant and not able to understand it.. We live in a dog eat dog world and its always been this way... Tell a beautiful woman not to use her looks to control men. It ain't happening...

I know one thing... all sorts of people on planet earth are having entirely different experiences for many reason. I kind of like thinking of it that way..

We have guys Like Bezos and Zuckerberg and Musk that have more power than the President, technological giants that are certainly players manipulating our changes in this digital world. I still believe the world will always be what it is, due to simple mathematics and the predictable wonders of human nature.
 
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Antidote Man

Well-Known Member
I'd like to share a personal experience for anyone reading. I grew up in a very wealthy yuppy town on the Hudson River in New York. My parents moved up from the city as socialites at the beginning of the town's change. But there was always money there. Old Money. For instance, about 12 years ago my mother volunteered some of her time to work for a local TV Station and she worked with the wife of a couple that lived in a massive mansion on the banks of the Hudson River. They had an indoor swimming pool and tennis court. Because they were friends with my family, my dad had his retirement party at their place. It's also where Chelsea Clinton had her marriage. If you look it up you could probably find where I'm talking about is.

I don't come from that type of money and my stories takes me to their neighbors. The road they lived on (they sold the mansion) is home to many houses/mansions/estates. Bard College is on one of these roads. One in particular is still owned by three baronesses (I think they're German). I knew them somewhat, the middle one in particular, I have been to their mansion. There's two probably 5 football field sized plots of land, on both sides of their driveway, on the other side of a stone walls likely built in the 1800s. The driveway passes under a canopy of old oak trees like you see in southern plantations and goes back to another tree line after a quarter mile..

My point is... the three cute, blond, little baronesses drive Subaru's and buy clothing at the Salvation Army! ***And 2 of the 3 of them are licensed practitioners of Yoga and/or Reiki beliefs... non-scientific in basis. If anyone can guess why.. I'll send them a good selections of seeds from my massive seed collection... and to boot - a whole case of shrimp flavored raman noodles!
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Pseudo Christians, calling out the seven deadly sins is not a crime, talk about cancel culture! It's no different for their politicians and news outlets, as foxnews found out after calling the election for Biden. They believe what they want to believe and search for media that supports their prejudices, as well as shop for preachers, like Trump shops for judges.

This was after the insurrection mind you, a might Christian of them, or perhaps they were seduced by an agent of the Devil, who cleverly exploited their weakness and fear to send them to Hell! :lol:


Congregation replaced pastor after this controversial sermon about Trump

78K views 4 hours ago
William Kopp, a former pastor at Stuarts Draft Baptist Church, faced backlash from his congregation after he delivered a scathing sermon about former President Trump in 2020
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Pseudo Christians, calling out the seven deadly sins is not a crime, talk about cancel culture! It's no different for their politicians and news outlets, as foxnews found out after calling the election for Biden. They believe what they want to believe and search for media that supports their prejudices, as well as shop for preachers, like Trump shops for judges.

This was after the insurrection mind you, a might Christian of them, or perhaps they were seduced by an agent of the Devil, who cleverly exploited their weakness and fear to send them to Hell! :lol:


Congregation replaced pastor after this controversial sermon about Trump

78K views 4 hours ago
William Kopp, a former pastor at Stuarts Draft Baptist Church, faced backlash from his congregation after he delivered a scathing sermon about former President Trump in 2020
they trust trump over their own pastor...there is no redemption for them.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
This is some fine bullshit


Now note the spin from the other leading brand, with emphasis on the college president’s “religion tr*mps fact” position.

 
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