So I’ve looked at a ton of videos amd read a number of websites and their instructions of making FECO. Everyone seems to have different opinions or doesn’t mention the decarb process at all. What are everyone’s thoughts on either decarbbing first thing in the oven or using the cook down process to decarb?
Decarbbing when making FECO or RSO
- Thread starter Stomate
- Start date
MATTYMATT726
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you need to know. If for use orally, it needs decarbed. If used topically like a lotion, than it doesn't. You already know you can decarb before or after the extraction.
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
I decarb after extraction because I can tell exactly where I am at in the process by simply watching C02 bubble production.
Plant material decarbs naturally with time and it isn't possible to tell what percent of the plants THC-A has been converted to THC by look, touch, or smell, so a set time doesn't work, unless you do it worst case scenario, which is by definition too much for most of the material.
Sadly, the same temperature that converts THC-A to THC, also degrades existing THC to its decay products like CBN, which is less psychoactive and more sedative, producing more of a charley horse between the ears than a high.
If you look at the attached chart, you will note that after about 70% THC-A conversion, the rate of conversion to THC is less than the loss of THC to CBN, et al, so the total THC curves drop off.
In addition, the same temperature that decarboxylates the THC-A to THC, and the THC to CBN, also breaks down the CBN, so the total loss of THC will not be offset by a like increase in CBN, thus overall potency is less than when you started.
If you watch the bubbles, the production will dramatically drop off at about 70%, as the process curve peaks and starts down the other side. That is maximum THC level and time to stop if maximum THC is your goal. If you continue until there are no bubbles, you will have less THC , more CBN, and less cannabinoids in total.
Plant material decarbs naturally with time and it isn't possible to tell what percent of the plants THC-A has been converted to THC by look, touch, or smell, so a set time doesn't work, unless you do it worst case scenario, which is by definition too much for most of the material.
Sadly, the same temperature that converts THC-A to THC, also degrades existing THC to its decay products like CBN, which is less psychoactive and more sedative, producing more of a charley horse between the ears than a high.
If you look at the attached chart, you will note that after about 70% THC-A conversion, the rate of conversion to THC is less than the loss of THC to CBN, et al, so the total THC curves drop off.
In addition, the same temperature that decarboxylates the THC-A to THC, and the THC to CBN, also breaks down the CBN, so the total loss of THC will not be offset by a like increase in CBN, thus overall potency is less than when you started.
If you watch the bubbles, the production will dramatically drop off at about 70%, as the process curve peaks and starts down the other side. That is maximum THC level and time to stop if maximum THC is your goal. If you continue until there are no bubbles, you will have less THC , more CBN, and less cannabinoids in total.
Attachments
Some solid information you gave here! Exactly the type of thing I’m looking for.
I’m going to be doing this in a crockpot and have no real way of regulating temperature outside of “low” amd “high”. Any suggestions? I assume I can’t rely on just bubbles. I wouldn’t know if it’s actually decarboxilating or it’s just the remaining 30% of the alcohol bubbling off correct?
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
Your crockpot is probably not hot enough to reach 250F. I use a Cuisinart electric fondue pot with vegetable oil in it.
The alcohol bubbling off and decarboxylation produce noticeably different bubbles. The alcohol produces random sized bubbles, and the decarboxylation produces small fizzy bubbles about the same size, though they can grow to large bubbles if you don't keep it stirred.
My webmaster is starting to get portions of my site back up and it looks like the Decarboxylation 101 article is whole:
10.1.4 Decarboxylation 101 - GrayWolf's Lair
As produced by the cannabis plant, the cannabinoids are produced in carboxylic acid form, which means that there is a carboxyl group (COOH) attached. Note […]
graywolfslair.com
Yeah the crockpot absolutely doesn’t reach the temps needed so I ended up decarbbing first in the oven and then evaporating off. Coming to the final stretch right now. Haven’t really had any bubbling during the entire process ( the whole process is taking place on my porch in ambient temps of about 30 degrees Fahrenheit)Your crockpot is probably not hot enough to reach 250F. I use a Cuisinart electric fondue pot with vegetable oil in it.
The alcohol bubbling off and decarboxylation produce noticeably different bubbles. The alcohol produces random sized bubbles, and the decarboxylation produces small fizzy bubbles about the same size, though they can grow to large bubbles if you don't keep it stirred.
My webmaster is starting to get portions of my site back up and it looks like the Decarboxylation 101 article is whole:
10.1.4 Decarboxylation 101 - GrayWolf's Lair
As produced by the cannabis plant, the cannabinoids are produced in carboxylic acid form, which means that there is a carboxyl group (COOH) attached. Note […]
90 grams of bud in and holy shit, does it come out to very little. A bit over 9 hours in right now and still have a bit to evap off. Started with 2 cups of “green dragon” that soaked for about 36 hours.
I actually had zero intentions of doing this but one plant didn’t come out like I think it could have so I went this route to experiment and salvage what I didn’t want to smoke. If it goes well I have another batch of about the same weight to run again
How do you go about storing it? Fridge? Freezer? Random dark cool cabinet?Your crockpot is probably not hot enough to reach 250F. I use a Cuisinart electric fondue pot with vegetable oil in it.
The alcohol bubbling off and decarboxylation produce noticeably different bubbles. The alcohol produces random sized bubbles, and the decarboxylation produces small fizzy bubbles about the same size, though they can grow to large bubbles if you don't keep it stirred.
My webmaster is starting to get portions of my site back up and it looks like the Decarboxylation 101 article is whole:
10.1.4 Decarboxylation 101 - GrayWolf's Lair
As produced by the cannabis plant, the cannabinoids are produced in carboxylic acid form, which means that there is a carboxyl group (COOH) attached. Note […]
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
That's the way I've been doing mine for the last few years. A lot less hassle than oven decarb and not losing as many terps etc I assume. Also drives off any trace of remaining solvent.
Now this is news to me. I usually run it until the bubbles come to a stop even with stirring. I will mostly use a hotplate with a wire screen under the beaker that holds the oil but a small batch I did recently on a 15W coffee warmer with a bit of foil around the beaker to hold the heat in and that got hot enough to decarb. Quelle suprise! Generally don't have enough to use a crockpot for decarb but have upped the heat on a mini crockpot using my variac running at about 115 - 120% when I decarbed a cocobudder batch before cooling then adding liquid sunflower lecithin and cooking at 100C for a half hour then straining. That was a 1L batch using 100g of pot for a 10:1 batch. 1tsp gets this old head pretty buzzed but not wasted. 2 will do it tho.
Maybe in the future I’ll get something more accommodating to this method but for this run I just used what I had available.That's the way I've been doing mine for the last few years. A lot less hassle than oven decarb and not losing as many terps etc I assume. Also drives off any trace of remaining solvent.
Now this is news to me. I usually run it until the bubbles come to a stop even with stirring. I will mostly use a hotplate with a wire screen under the beaker that holds the oil but a small batch I did recently on a 15W coffee warmer with a bit of foil around the beaker to hold the heat in and that got hot enough to decarb. Quelle suprise! Generally don't have enough to use a crockpot for decarb but have upped the heat on a mini crockpot using my variac running at about 115 - 120% when I decarbed a cocobudder batch before cooling then adding liquid sunflower lecithin and cooking at 100C for a half hour then straining. That was a 1L batch using 100g of pot for a 10:1 batch. 1tsp gets this old head pretty buzzed but not wasted. 2 will do it tho.
honestly, I maybe should have tried to evap a bit more off… I was basing my consistency off multiple YouTube videos. For 90 grams of bud in does this seem about right? About 12ish milliliters
Attachments
A wire screen under the beaker that holds the oil?That's the way I've been doing mine for the last few years. A lot less hassle than oven decarb and not losing as many terps etc I assume. Also drives off any trace of remaining solvent.
Now this is news to me. I usually run it until the bubbles come to a stop even with stirring. I will mostly use a hotplate with a wire screen under the beaker that holds the oil but a small batch I did recently on a 15W coffee warmer with a bit of foil around the beaker to hold the heat in and that got hot enough to decarb. Quelle suprise! Generally don't have enough to use a crockpot for decarb but have upped the heat on a mini crockpot using my variac running at about 115 - 120% when I decarbed a cocobudder batch before cooling then adding liquid sunflower lecithin and cooking at 100C for a half hour then straining. That was a 1L batch using 100g of pot for a 10:1 batch. 1tsp gets this old head pretty buzzed but not wasted. 2 will do it tho.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
That sounds about right but would you need to evap off more? What did you use for solvent? If ethanol then no biggie but everything else should be as clean as possible. I generally use ISO and picked up 20L of USP grade in 500ml bottles from Costco a few months ago as I have a few lbs of pot saved up for processing into RSO and CBD oil. I do have a gallon of naphtha to use with pot that was frozen fresh off the plant.
Yes. So the beaker isn't sitting directly on the element. Lab glass but could still crack if it's heated unevenly or has a flaw. Just 1/2" mesh metal screen but a bent up coat-hanger would work. Same if putting a jar in a pot of boiling water or hot oil. Keeps it off the bottom of the pot and allows liquid to circulate around the bottom better for more even heat.
I monitor the temp with one of those infrared laser thermometers.
ISO boiling off.
Finished oil. 114g made from many strains of pot.
I have a three stills to use to recover my solvents. 4L countertop with temp control, 12L pot still from amazon and a 2L all glass lab still that I'm still trying to get a vacuum takeoff fitting for. A 300mm fractionating column in 24/40 would be nice as well to more quickly purify the ISO. I have a 19/40 but would be faster with the larger one.
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
Light, heat, and oxygen degrade the concentrate. I keep mine in a closed opaque container in the freezer or fridge, depending on how long I'm storing it.
Nrk.cdn
Well-Known Member
Fadedawg,Your crockpot is probably not hot enough to reach 250F. I use a Cuisinart electric fondue pot with vegetable oil in it.
The alcohol bubbling off and decarboxylation produce noticeably different bubbles. The alcohol produces random sized bubbles, and the decarboxylation produces small fizzy bubbles about the same size, though they can grow to large bubbles if you don't keep it stirred.
My webmaster is starting to get portions of my site back up and it looks like the Decarboxylation 101 article is whole:
10.1.4 Decarboxylation 101 - GrayWolf's Lair
As produced by the cannabis plant, the cannabinoids are produced in carboxylic acid form, which means that there is a carboxyl group (COOH) attached. Note […]
Do you use vegetable oil in the fondue pot as a double boiler? If so, does it stabilize the temps better than water in a double boiler?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Using water you don't have to worry about heat control so much as it won't get hotter than 100C/212F so you won't fry the oil if the solvent is all evaporated. If it's a prolonged heating then you'll need to keep adding water as it evaporates tho so the temp will go up and down unless you add already boiling water to top it up.
No evaporation with veg oil but your temp could go too high without good control of your input heat. I bought a gallon of cheap canola oil to use to heat my 2L lab still as I can't find my electric heating mantle anywhere. Also got an 8" lab jack to be able to raise and lower the 1000W hotplate that I control with a variac to keep the temp where I want it more precisely than the hotplate can.
A variac is a good investment if you plan to make stuff like oils fairly often.
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
It is both stable as a double boiler, and you can't heat water to 250F unless it is under pressure.