Anyone wanna talk about leds?
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amneziaHaze
Well-Known Member
soo bk was right at the start an amateur mistake of not feeding enough and it was blamed on the equipment
in photo 3 plants have strong yellowing on the bottomest leafs rest nice and green
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
How many hours of light?
Any other thermometers or probes to read air temp other than the one in direct light?
I'd drop the calmag, introduce foliar mag sulphate , see if that reduces the issue to determine it actually being mag def.
Up your EC a bit.
Any other thermometers or probes to read air temp other than the one in direct light?
I'd drop the calmag, introduce foliar mag sulphate , see if that reduces the issue to determine it actually being mag def.
Up your EC a bit.
Nope_49595933949
Well-Known Member
Temps probably weren't helping either
medidedicated
Well-Known Member
vpd chart dot com helps play around with VPD with your setup much much faster than manually. easy for a newbie to figure out fast, was really happy when i came across it.
you should be able to do 700 to 1000ppfd easily, it seems like otherwise at first. fan blowing at light helps with dryness if lights have to be kept close.
you should be able to do 700 to 1000ppfd easily, it seems like otherwise at first. fan blowing at light helps with dryness if lights have to be kept close.
bandit08
Well-Known Member
Correct.
Nope_49595933949
Well-Known Member
Yes.
amneziaHaze
Well-Known Member
temps can stop the plant or slow it down but will never make just the bottom leafs yellow. yellow bottom leafs happen when the plant has no food to eat soo she starts canibalisticly eating herselfe she allways starts with leafs that are the most useless.usually those are the bottom leafs because they dont get much sunlight, and a fully mature leaf is not productive as a fresh leaf
bandit08
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Im not sure what yellowing people are seeing at the bottom tbh
amneziaHaze
Well-Known Member
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Pics dont always come out great, but the only damaged looking ones are at the bottom.
Otherwise your plants look great. New growth looks fine
rkymtnman
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if you can't get your lights off temps higher, i'd run 24/0
Boatguy
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I do that in veg in my basement. The plants do great in veg at 24/0
rkymtnman
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i pretty have to aroundhere in winter. no sense running a heater when more light does the same thing
Boatguy
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I only grow indoors in the winter, so i have the same issues.
Low temps and humidity.... In veg run that light as long as possible.
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
The only difference btwn HPS and LED you need to be concerned with is leaf temperature. LED's have minimal IR to heat the leaf surface so higher ambient temps are needed vs. HPS lights. I.e. Run warmer temps with LED lights
The Athena CalMag advice is bullshit
medidedicated
Well-Known Member
this is also a good example of a hit or miss possibility. I have a early first few threads on this. same stage of growth. I scanned through thread and no one said lockout. about the yellow and harsh lower growth:
Usually calmg is for supplementing for that specific issue. and buffering coco.
I started out using a feed chart another user used, now this is where i say hit or miss. they ended up with fine results.
I was told i was hhaving lockout due to nutes having plenty of calmg but the added calmg i was adding was just causing the issue, stopped soon as i did. i argued i was supposed to and its just adjusting & this was normal, users here. insisted it was not.
i see many more users go for as needed instead. just saying, dont be affraid to, it really did fix my issue. added ec from tap is ok, many feed between 1.0 ec to 3.0 ec total. calmg adds .8 ec no matter what, i freakin hated that until it wasnt needed at all.
added ec from tap has calmg and micros. people even argue not to use RO water, which gave me bad results. “leaches calmg” “too naked.” most city water is ok. well water etc i would ask if you need to worry about it.
Usually calmg is for supplementing for that specific issue. and buffering coco.
I started out using a feed chart another user used, now this is where i say hit or miss. they ended up with fine results.
I was told i was hhaving lockout due to nutes having plenty of calmg but the added calmg i was adding was just causing the issue, stopped soon as i did. i argued i was supposed to and its just adjusting & this was normal, users here. insisted it was not.
i see many more users go for as needed instead. just saying, dont be affraid to, it really did fix my issue. added ec from tap is ok, many feed between 1.0 ec to 3.0 ec total. calmg adds .8 ec no matter what, i freakin hated that until it wasnt needed at all.
added ec from tap has calmg and micros. people even argue not to use RO water, which gave me bad results. “leaches calmg” “too naked.” most city water is ok. well water etc i would ask if you need to worry about it.
amneziaHaze
Well-Known Member
you would use the same amount you would use if you had a stronger hps. leds just output more ppfd per watt.if you feed her more she will not need mg.i am using the recommended dose of masterblend.didnt have to give more mg or cal.and i have an attis 300w
allsoo there is allready a tread
allsoo there is allready a tread
Need Information on Cal/Mag Deficiencies When Using Led Lights
I have been using the search engine to find information on cal/mag deficiencies that may be cause related to using led lights. I believe I have such a problem developing. I have seen a couple of mentions that led lights can cause the above deficiencies but can't seem to find a thread that...
www.rollitup.org
Last edited:
amneziaHaze
Well-Known Member
Found this thread referenced from another related so thought this info might add value. I get ~2GPW at 17 Watts/sq ft at 5-10 inches and no cal-mag. Copied from Could Low Humidity Do This?:
All leaves on the plant should be "praying to the light", otherwise you have an issue. The initial pictures of this thread showed signs of too much light. The larger the trunk is on the plant, the more light it can take. Too much light (not heat from light) will cause the plant's "pump system" to overload and break down. New leaf growth will be curled and stunted. Larger new leaves at the top will become leathery as they shrivel to protect from the light. The first signs of too much light will be rust spots or cal-mag like deficiencies in older leaves. I think this is caused by deficiencies in other parts of the plant due to the system overload from the excess light. Magnesium is a "mobile" element so the plant can rob it from the leaves if it is needed elsewhere. If not corrected the rust spots will continue to spread into flowering and trichome density will be affected negatively. There might be other factors that contribute to the rust spots. I never had much success with adding cal-mag, if any. VPD might be a factor. My plants were continuously fed a large amount of low humidity air from the house but I never measured.
If you ever see the rust spots, back off on the light and you will see that the leaves will recover so that the areas around the rust spots will fill with dark green and the spots will cease to spread.
Broad spectrum LED's can easily overload a plant. I ran a 8 sq ft box with a 400 watt sodium for years and suffered from the rust problem but still produced decent bud. The box had very low head space so I had to keep my plants small. The trunks never got larger than 3/8" or so. I switched to Bridgelux LED at 200 watts and fried my plants real quick. When I finally caught on after trying just about everything I fine tuned and found out exactly how much light those small plants could take before getting rust spots. For that 8 sq ft canopy area the most they could take was 130-135 watts of BridgeLux 3500k strip LED's at 5-10 inches from the canopy.
Finely burned tips are not necessarily an indication of an issue. You can get rid of them by turning the light way down but that will affect the yield.
I've run PPM up to around 4000 before any signs of toxicity showed. My cheap Chinese meter had gone way off and I didn't know it. The leaves got very dark green, curled over, and got crispy dry. PPM had been high for a while but they showed no signs of ill health. When I added the last bit of nutes they turned overnight. When I got a good meter I was amazed that they could take that much nutes. I normally run 1300-1400 all the way through with RO water that comes out around 70-100.
You have to have a nute reservoir large enough so that changes in water level don't affect PPM and PH. The best you can do is run a float valve with continuous RO water supply. PPM will drop as the plants eat, PH will rise slightly as the PPM goes down, and you feed just a little at a time to keep PPM and PH in the desired range.
If you do see rust spots and it's not too bad, they might stop spreading as the plant becomes larger and can handle more light.
The best thing you can do for your efforts is to keep a log with pictures, PPM, Watts, PH, other changes... everything. Otherwise you will chase your tail and get frustrated. Keep it simple. Change one thing at a time. Be patient and see what those changes do.
If the plant is stressed, turn the light down until you figure out what's going on. Transplanted plants need low light to slow the metabolism so it can have time to adjust to the new environment and get the "bio engine" running again. You'll know when the plant is ready to go. Push it too hard and you'll end up with immune issues and root rot. Healthy plants can deal with a little bacteria in the water without getting sick.
When you fill a new tub, give it a few days for the bacteria flora to stabilize before you put transplanted plants in that are stressed. The tub doesn't have to be 100% sterile. Just remove all organic material, run water with a cup of bleach through the pump and everything for a day or so, flush that, then fill it, add nutes, and let it sit for a few days with pump and air stone running so that the good bacteria can stabilize the environment. Then put your plants in with low light until they start growing and look healthy. I've actually gone two full harvests without changing the nutes so don't think you have to kill yourself to flush and refill. Just keep healthy plants and the tub will stay healthy.
If you don't have a dial or app to adjust the light intensity you are doing it wrong.
What I'm learning now is that a sealed environment requires a crap ton of humidity removal. Those plants are like water pumps. And to keep humidity and temperature stable it requires a huge amount of air space just like the nute reservoir needs to be large enough to handle small changes. Otherwise humidity will go up and down as your equipment tries to deal with it.
The attached pics are of an LED burnt plant from 25watts/sq ft and a bud produced with 17watts/sq ft of BridgeLux 3500k LED strips and no cal-mag added.
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