War

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
By “embittered” I think you mean “completely overrun”.
Yeah,it's def. a worry,it seems too many of us in the West got caught up in the euphoria of Russia's initial boondogle combined w/Ukrainian spirit ambushing clueless Russian columns,then the late summer/fall Ukranian offensive when territory was retaken like a knife thru soft butter. While I remain impressed w/Ukranian will and resourcefullness it's wise not to forget the Russian blueprint. It was probably assumed that Russia would incorporate the lessons forged by the West in warfare during the last 30 yrs.(precision weapons,limits on civilian damage,combined arms ops.).However Russia is using their tried and true artillery,mass destruction,massive casualty approach that has been their defining tactic dating back to WW2. As I've looked around in the spirit of objectivity the question of how this ends is more enigmatic and sobering. We look at the attrition going on here as horrific,but by Russian standards this is in their comfort zone,I don't think it is in Ivan's DNA to win wars without massive suffering.While supporting Ukranian sovereignty and hoping they are victorious as time goes on it's prudent to temper enthusiasm for a total Russian collapse.
 

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
True, but not worried about France and Germany’s commitment till at least 2026 (next elections). France being contrarian isn’t always reluctance, it’s more that they/Macron wants to portray the role of a world power/leader, to be relevant internationally. He just needs to be thrown a bone once in a while, as in ok Macron let’s go with your idea. As for Germany, I see no reason to doubt their commitment long and short term, on the contrary, the sleeping giant has been awakened.

The relationship between France and Germany is an essential pillar of the EU, it’s in everyone’s interest to keep it healthy. One of the reasons it’s not always going smoothly is because Germany is basically more pro-USA/transatlantic and France is and wants Germany to be (even) more pro-EU. France has the strongest military in the EU, Germany the most economic power. Macron is the nr1 proponent of a european army.

From 6 months before the war:

Also, as always, it’s all about the money, economic interests. One way or the other, there is good money in supporting Ukraine. Everyone wants a piece of the pie.

After all the complaining rethoric about Germany in recent weeks it’ll soon become clear who puts their money where their mouth is.
Yeah, I was just pointing out that if cracks start to form that's where I'd look using history as a mirror,as for Macron,I've prev. posted that he has a hard on for a Euro centric defense force( good luck Emmanuel,Uncle Sam is embedded in the European psyche as big. bro. to the rescue).Other than that you are in the heart of Europe and your finger is on the pulse so I grant that you know more than I. I did read something that king of shook me regarding German efficiency concerning Berlin citizens complaining about A FKD up political structure to get things done,pols passing the buck hiding behind layers of govt. and red tape. A crumbling subway/trans system,overcrowded classrooms,lack of housing,and a maze of a process in negotiating the permits and licensing to move forward, resulting in inertia. Kind of blew my impression of the German stereotype of precision and efficiency.I wonder if Germany can fulfill Defense budget promises concerning GDP % with these kind of social issues(which I found surprising;source article for this was NY Times)
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
as for Macron,I've prev. posted that he has a hard on for a Euro centric defense force( good luck Emmanuel,Uncle Sam is embedded in the European psyche as big. bro. to the rescue).
That's exactly why he used Trump and his comments about NATO as an opportunity to promote his idea. Easier to sell it when a Trump is in power. And since it's the republicans who put him there, it extends to all of them. Younger generations grow up with a very different image of the US and EU then baby boomers and their children.

I did read something that king of shook me regarding German efficiency concerning Berlin citizens complaining about A FKD up political structure to get things done,pols passing the buck hiding behind layers of govt. and red tape. A crumbling subway/trans system,overcrowded classrooms,lack of housing,and a maze of a process in negotiating the permits and licensing to move forward, resulting in inertia. Kind of blew my impression of the German stereotype of precision and efficiency.I wonder if Germany can fulfill Defense budget promises concerning GDP % with these kind of social issues(which I found surprising;source article for this was NY Times)
Much of that sums up the EU and national governments of many others states and the problems they have pretty well.

The housing crisis is a problem throughout the EU. Berlin is one of the most popular cities but it's even worse in Amsterdam and London. Kids can't move out, couples can't move in together, people can't follow their job and move to the city. Rates continue to go up so high more houses become out of reach for most people, except investors. Solving the housing crisis would make the top 10%, those who hold most of the wealth and thus power, lose billions.

Hardly anyone wants to be a teacher in this corner of Europe, especially in major cities. Being a teacher doesn't mean what it used to. It means picking up parenting where the actual parents stopped, usually right after they taught them how to not shit in their pants. Plus they got to educate the parents now too, the anti-vaxxing parents who don't want their kids to wear masks, muslim parents who don't want their daughters to join sex education or swimming class. In return for their efforts they get threats, stress and crap pay.

That said, increasing the national defense budget should be a lot easier for them to do than solve these 21st century problems in the capital. If they don't, it would be a lack of will, not a lack of money or competence.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
That's exactly why he used Trump and his comments about NATO as an opportunity to promote his idea. Easier to sell it when a Trump is in power. And since it's the republicans who put him there, it extends to all of them. Younger generations grow up with a very different image of the US and EU then baby boomers and their children.


Much of that sums up the EU and national governments of many others states and the problems they have pretty well.

The housing crisis is a problem throughout the EU. Berlin is one of the most popular cities but it's even worse in Amsterdam and London. Kids can't move out, couples can't move in together, people can't follow their job and move to the city. Rates continue to go up so high more houses become out of reach for most people, except investors. Solving the housing crisis would make the top 10%, those who hold most of the wealth and thus power, lose billions.

Hardly anyone wants to be a teacher in this corner of Europe, especially in major cities. Being a teacher doesn't mean what it used to. It means picking up parenting where the actual parents stopped, usually right after they taught them how to not shit in their pants. Plus they got to educate the parents now too, the anti-vaxxing parents who don't want their kids to wear masks, muslim parents who don't want their daughters to join sex education or swimming class. In return for their efforts they get threats, stress and crap pay.

That said, increasing the national defense budget should be a lot easier for them to do than solve these 21st century problems in the capital. If they don't, it would be a lack of will, not a lack of money or competence.
sounds like all y’all are hot on our heels into the abyss.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
That's exactly why he used Trump and his comments about NATO as an opportunity to promote his idea. Easier to sell it when a Trump is in power. And since it's the republicans who put him there, it extends to all of them. Younger generations grow up with a very different image of the US and EU then baby boomers and their children.


Much of that sums up the EU and national governments of many others states and the problems they have pretty well.

The housing crisis is a problem throughout the EU. Berlin is one of the most popular cities but it's even worse in Amsterdam and London. Kids can't move out, couples can't move in together, people can't follow their job and move to the city. Rates continue to go up so high more houses become out of reach for most people, except investors. Solving the housing crisis would make the top 10%, those who hold most of the wealth and thus power, lose billions.

Hardly anyone wants to be a teacher in this corner of Europe, especially in major cities. Being a teacher doesn't mean what it used to. It means picking up parenting where the actual parents stopped, usually right after they taught them how to not shit in their pants. Plus they got to educate the parents now too, the anti-vaxxing parents who don't want their kids to wear masks, muslim parents who don't want their daughters to join sex education or swimming class. In return for their efforts they get threats, stress and crap pay.

That said, increasing the national defense budget should be a lot easier for them to do than solve these 21st century problems in the capital. If they don't, it would be a lack of will, not a lack of money or competence.
Everybody has got a lot of problems and we all need sane honest governments to resolve them while keeping psychos and narcissists out of government and out of control of anything, private or public. Europe is being challenged now, both militarily and with energy. Everybody now figures they can beat the Russians on their own conventionally moving forward, nobody fears the bear as they once did. The energy challenges are obvious and there are solutions afoot in the EU and America to dramatically increase renewables, energy storage and EVs, not just America, but in Asia too, China and India will also be onboard with EVs for sure.

The EU appears to have a structural governance problem, as in too many layers of it and too many government decision makers involved in private matters. They should be concerning them selves with more general things like standards and coordination, not micro managing, mission creep methinks.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Everybody has got a lot of problems and we all need sane honest governments to resolve them while keeping psychos and narcissists out of government and out of control of anything, private or public. Europe is being challenged now, both militarily and with energy. Everybody now figures they can beat the Russians on their own conventionally moving forward, nobody fears the bear as they once did. The energy challenges are obvious and there are solutions afoot in the EU and America to dramatically increase renewables, energy storage and EVs, not just America, but in Asia too, China and India will also be onboard with EVs for sure.

The EU appears to have a structural governance problem, as in too many layers of it and too many government decision makers involved in private matters. They should be concerning them selves with more general things like standards and coordination, not micro managing, mission creep methinks.
they solved the problem of a two party system with more parties...with more problems...
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
they solved the problem of a two party system with more parties...with more problems...
The problem of us humans governing ourselves is an ongoing issue, but liberal democracy in it's various forms is the only way forward for humanity. We can no longer afford to have psychos like Trump, Putin and even Xi in positions of responsibility, technology has simply made the stakes too high and societies are evolving too rapidly while driven by technological change.

We can make no judgements about how the future society will evolve except Darwin's judgement, they will trend towards survival or downfall. Our societies have become increasingly interdependent, both internationally, nationally and even locally and thus vulnerable to disruption and less resilient. What happens if the power grid goes down? The internet? The economy depends on both and the power could be on but the networks down and you still wouldn't be able to buy anything at most stores. There is not nearly enough cash in circulation and the banks are not equipped for the business these days, nor could they be.

Educated emancipated women do not want to have many children and many men do not wish to be burdened with the responsibility, so birth rates can't keep up in developed countries. If the entire planet is living a good lifestyle in liberal democratic countries, that means freedom from religion and declining birthrates too. So if we are all living the good life in a couple of hundred years, how many humans will be around to live it?
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
sounds like all y’all are hot on our heels into the abyss.
I said it a few times in this forum, America is still leading the way, both the good and the bad. And whatever trend makes it to the west of Europe, haircuts or repopulation theories, we pass on to the east. Fortunately for us we're just far enough behind to see what happens when you elect a Trump before we do it ourselves.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Moldova has been in and out of the conversation since the beginning, but this is new:

Moldova is a long way from Russia and Transnistria won't last long when the Russians are defeated in Ukraine. The EU has been taking an interest and there is more aid flowing into the place now. Russia is always plotting to topple whatever government it can and install it's stooges, in America they are maga republicans, Trump, MTG and others come to mind.
 
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