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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
I support the right to negotiate a collective agreement that all parties agree to, and unfortunately that didn't happen in this scenario. There will never be a good time for job action, whether it's a strike or a lockout, as parties not involved will always be negatively affected, and the poor will always be hardest hit.

Management is already over working the employees by all accounts, they don't even deny that from what I have read. They could fire an employee if they got stuck in a hospital before the recent changes. Management doesn't give any fucks about the moral high ground, labour is nothing more than a tool to produce money from. That's capitalism baby, and that's why the market should set the price for labour and not forced by government intervention.

In my opinion, Biden making a statement that he supports the unions position without any action following his statement will only cause further resentment towards him and his administration. Wouldn't take much from him to force changes, maybe bring up the threat of a maximum number of hours a week the RR employee would be allowed to work,,, for the safety of the RR system overall.
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Not getting everything they wanted does not make for a bad deal.

All of the new agreements increase wages by 24 percent during the five-year period from 2020 through 2024, with a 14.1 wage percent increase effective immediately. The agreements also include five $1,000 annual lump sum payments, adjustments to health care premiums, and health benefit enhancements, and an additional personal leave day for all employees. A portion of the wage increases and lump sum payments are retroactive, resulting in more than $11,000 on average in immediate payouts to employees.

The wage increases in the new agreements are the most substantial in decades – with average rail worker wages reaching about $110,000 per year by the end of the agreement. When health care, retirement, and other benefits are considered, the value of rail employees’ total compensation package, which already ranks among the highest in the nation, would average about $160,000 per year.

raillaborfacts.org

BARGAINING STATUS FAQ – DECEMBER 2022 - NRLC

Updated Dec. 5, 2022 Go to news about the latest bargaining round Q: ...
raillaborfacts.org raillaborfacts.org

By 2024, those workers will be making 110,000/year on average. The agreement wins concessions that removes penalties for missing time due to an illness or medical emergency. Rail employees receive up to five weeks of vacation in addition to up to 14 paid holidays and/or paid leave days (all depending on craft and seniority). They also participate in a carrier-funded federal sickness benefit program, and many have access to other benefits under existing labor agreements. What they are getting is a good deal. What they now have is called flexible time off -- they can take time off without penalty by taking time off within the flexible time off limits.

As seen by employment statistics, while other jobs have been going unfilled, there are an abundance of people applying for rail worker positions relative to openings. That faq say 42:1

Sometimes one has to accept winning and move on.
 
CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Not getting everything they wanted does not make for a bad deal.

All of the new agreements increase wages by 24 percent during the five-year period from 2020 through 2024, with a 14.1 wage percent increase effective immediately. The agreements also include five $1,000 annual lump sum payments, adjustments to health care premiums, and health benefit enhancements, and an additional personal leave day for all employees. A portion of the wage increases and lump sum payments are retroactive, resulting in more than $11,000 on average in immediate payouts to employees.

The wage increases in the new agreements are the most substantial in decades – with average rail worker wages reaching about $110,000 per year by the end of the agreement. When health care, retirement, and other benefits are considered, the value of rail employees’ total compensation package, which already ranks among the highest in the nation, would average about $160,000 per year.

raillaborfacts.org

BARGAINING STATUS FAQ – DECEMBER 2022 - NRLC

Updated Dec. 5, 2022 Go to news about the latest bargaining round Q: ...
raillaborfacts.org raillaborfacts.org

By 2024, those workers will be making 110,000/year on average. The agreement wins concessions that removes penalties for missing time due to an illness or medical emergency. Rail employees receive up to five weeks of vacation in addition to up to 14 paid holidays and/or paid leave days (all depending on craft and seniority). They also participate in a carrier-funded federal sickness benefit program, and many have access to other benefits under existing labor agreements. What they are getting is a good deal. What they now have is called flexible time off -- they can take time off without penalty by taking time off within the flexible time off limits.

As seen by employment statistics, while other jobs have been going unfilled, there are an abundance of people applying for rail worker positions relative to openings. That faq say 42:1

Sometimes one has to accept winning and move on.
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I understand why the NRLC would be highlighting all of those points, they represent the companies. Companies that are making record profits (not saying that is bad, just highlighting it because they are pointing out rail worker wages, important context).

I'm not arguing that it's a bad deal, my point is Biden sold himself as "Blue collar Joe" that is going to fight for the workers. By forcing unions to accept an agreement that union members voted on and rejected, he is setting himself up to lose that support.

I wouldn't call losing the ability to collective bargaining winning, but I'll move on regardless.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
I understand why the NRLC would be highlighting all of those points, they represent the companies. Companies that are making record profits (not saying that is bad, just highlighting it because they are pointing out rail worker wages, important context).

I'm not arguing that it's a bad deal, my point is Biden sold himself as "Blue collar Joe" that is going to fight for the workers. By forcing unions to accept an agreement that union members voted on and rejected, he is setting himself up to lose that support.

I wouldn't call losing the ability to collective bargaining winning, but I'll move on regardless.
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Biden is the POTUS, not a labor rep, so, he did what was necessary to keep the economic recovery going WHILE getting those workers PAID. Nobody lost in this.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
I support the right to negotiate a collective agreement that all parties agree to, and unfortunately that didn't happen in this scenario. There will never be a good time for job action, whether it's a strike or a lockout, as parties not involved will always be negatively affected, and the poor will always be hardest hit.

Management is already over working the employees by all accounts, they don't even deny that from what I have read. They could fire an employee if they got stuck in a hospital before the recent changes. Management doesn't give any fucks about the moral high ground, labour is nothing more than a tool to produce money from. That's capitalism baby, and that's why the market should set the price for labour and not forced by government intervention.

In my opinion, Biden making a statement that he supports the unions position without any action following his statement will only cause further resentment towards him and his administration. Wouldn't take much from him to force changes, maybe bring up the threat of a maximum number of hours a week the RR employee would be allowed to work,,, for the safety of the RR system overall.
Click to expand...
you're confusing me...last post you said management was just doing it's job..now they give zero fucks and use labor as a means to an end?

and yes, the poor will always take the brunt of whatever effects society in general, but the rail workers picked a particularly bad time, with the threat of a recession, and a still very fucked up supply chain keeping inflation high...in my opinion, whatever benefit they could have negotiated for themselves at the moment would have been more than offset by the damage they were going to do to all those poor people, and the entire nation would have been pretty pissed at them for being the opportunistic assholes that labor usually accuses management of being, they would have lost the sympathy vote of nearly the entire nation. Now when they go to renegotiate, which they should do at the first opportunity, they can walk into the room and say "We already took one for the team, now what is the team going to do for us? "
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
I understand why the NRLC would be highlighting all of those points, they represent the companies. Companies that are making record profits (not saying that is bad, just highlighting it because they are pointing out rail worker wages, important context).

I'm not arguing that it's a bad deal, my point is Biden sold himself as "Blue collar Joe" that is going to fight for the workers. By forcing unions to accept an agreement that union members voted on and rejected, he is setting himself up to lose that support.

I wouldn't call losing the ability to collective bargaining winning, but I'll move on regardless.
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if people getting that kind of deal decide not to support Biden, then they can just get fucked.
i wasn't aware of just how good they had it, it kind of makes me say forget renegotiating, if it isn't management doing the renegotiating...
people with those kinds of benefits bitching about a couple of more days off a year? no fucking sympathy....
If they want to support republicans, lets just see how their next negotiations go.
 
Herb & Suds

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
I understand why the NRLC would be highlighting all of those points, they represent the companies. Companies that are making record profits (not saying that is bad, just highlighting it because they are pointing out rail worker wages, important context).

I'm not arguing that it's a bad deal, my point is Biden sold himself as "Blue collar Joe" that is going to fight for the workers. By forcing unions to accept an agreement that union members voted on and rejected, he is setting himself up to lose that support.

I wouldn't call losing the ability to collective bargaining winning, but I'll move on regardless.
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Present opinion as fact then cut and run is so radical right
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
View attachment 5260974
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"March for life", sounds like a good thing? Sounds a lot better than "March for us controlling the rights of women, lgbtq people, and minorities". Which is too much for a magat to read at one time, and it wraps around the sides of the t-shirts they'll be selling.
what do you want to bet this event will never be the target of a crazy gunman? can't happen, when they're all attending the event.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
"March for life", sounds like a good thing? Sounds a lot better than "March for us controlling the rights of women, lgbtq people, and minorities". Which is too much for a magat to read at one time, and it wraps around the sides of the t-shirts they'll be selling.
what do you want to bet this event will never be the target of a crazy gunman? can't happen, when they're all attending the event.
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The fact that the NRA doesn't allow open carry or any carry at its conventions, tells me everything I need to know about them and America's gun culture. Shut off the lights and throw in a pack of firecrackers and you'd have the stupid paranoid cunts killing each other en mass, it would be a slaughter of the stupid until the ammo ran out.
 
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