LED fixtures with added IR?

[tstick]

Hello. Maybe some of you know the light(s) I am talking about....I think I saw the ad for one, here, in fact....but now I can't find it again for reference.

Okay....so MY understanding, for years, was that LEDs were going to make HID lighting obsolete -specifically because HID lights were inefficient. HID lights generated too much heat, they said. The heat comes from infrared light, they said.

But, lately, there has been some discussion about the benefits of the infrared light in regards to growing marijuana. Go figure.

As a result, there are now a few LED lights that are including an option of added infrared light. I haven't seen one of these lights to study it, but I wonder what type of emitters are used to generate the IR. I imagine it must be like a toaster element or something. What else could it be....right? Fill me in if you know.

Does/Doesn't this design idea kind of negate the earlier claims of LED superiority-through-efficiency? And, if there is some kind of heating element built into the design, then doesn't it make that type of light more of a potential fire hazard, too? That was supposed to be another reason why LEDs were superior to HID -safety.

Actually, I used my old HID bulbs on my last run and I really liked the results. I think the flowers were more fragrant. Was it because of the IR light inherent to HID bulbs? I don't know....but maybe.

Anyway, I'm a bit curious to find out more about these "hybrid" lights. Anyone know?

 

[grotbags]

Hello. Maybe some of you know the light(s) I am talking about....I think I saw the ad for one, here, in fact....but now I can't find it again for reference.

Okay....so MY understanding, for years, was that LEDs were going to make HID lighting obsolete -specifically because HID lights were inefficient. HID lights generated too much heat, they said. The heat comes from infrared light, they said.

But, lately, there has been some discussion about the benefits of the infrared light in regards to growing marijuana. Go figure.

As a result, there are now a few LED lights that are including an option of added infrared light. I haven't seen one of these lights to study it, but I wonder what type of emitters are used to generate the IR. I imagine it must be like a toaster element or something. What else could it be....right? Fill me in if you know.

Does/Doesn't this design idea kind of negate the earlier claims of LED superiority-through-efficiency? And, if there is some kind of heating element built into the design, then doesn't it make that type of light more of a potential fire hazard, too? That was supposed to be another reason why LEDs were superior to HID -safety.

Actually, I used my old HID bulbs on my last run and I really liked the results. I think the flowers were more fragrant. Was it because of the IR light inherent to HID bulbs? I don't know....but maybe.

Anyway, I'm a bit curious to find out more about these "hybrid" lights. Anyone know?

as far as i know no led lights contain IR, a few have far red but they are not the same thing.
i think the confusion comes from light manufacturers who dont know their arse from their elbow incorrectly calling far red, infra red.

 

[grotbags]

as a side note 99% of led lights that have added uv and far red dont use anywhere near enough to have any actual effect.

 

[futurebanjo]

Certain models of the maxibright I use have 'far red' if you look at the spectum graph...oddly only on the lower wattage ones, maybe as they are newer models... LED grow lights still seem to be evolving, one good thing is 'onboard' dimmer switches are pretty much standard now so you can run anywhere between 10% power and 100%, which is great for using less electricity in veg.

DAYLIGHT 300W LED Grow Lights - DAYLIGHT Lighting Systems

With a full-spectrum output, the DAYLIGHT 300W LED Grow Light ensures growing with LEDs will impress even the most staunch HPS supporter.

growwithdaylight.co.uk

 

[ALPHA.GanjaGuy]

@MarsHydrofactory has a way to add uva/ir to some of their lights

Adding UVA

I been wanting to do an epoxy countertop resin poor, for a full set of kitchen counters, with 5-6 different UV paints and dyes mixed in. Then setup a multi spotlight fixture in the center of the kitchen, with the good 365nm bulbs pointed towards each section of the tops. Or run strips under the...

www.rollitup.org

 

[Nope_49595933949]

@MarsHydrofactory has a way to add uva/ir to some of their lights

Adding UVA

I been wanting to do an epoxy countertop resin poor, for a full set of kitchen counters, with 5-6 different UV paints and dyes mixed in. Then setup a multi spotlight fixture in the center of the kitchen, with the good 365nm bulbs pointed towards each section of the tops. Or run strips under the...

www.rollitup.org

I believe this has been discussed and the amount they add does litterally nothing

 

[ALPHA.GanjaGuy]

I honestly had not read the thread just remembered seeing it

 

[Nope_49595933949]

I honestly had not read the thread just remembered seeing it

I don't know what any of it means, but I remember it.

 

[tstick]

Well, in my experience in testing various lights over the years, most living creatures prefer light that emits IR....

 

[Rocket Soul]

Ive often wondered why nobody mounted a few halogen spots on their light as far red/IR supplement. Its almost like hps on tap if you look at the spectrum, fills in everything above 660.

 

[xox]

idk i just switched last year from hps to led, the reason being is the amount of hydro for a sealed room with hps emits alot of heat and requires alot of cooling which requires a ton of electricity. i switched from 4 600 watt hps, to two 650 watt hlg scorpion diablos and changed the thermostat on the mini split from 67f to 77f. pulled more weight with the two leds than the 4 hps and the hydro bill went from 1100 down to 350. thats the math for saying fuck infrared ill never go back the thing about infrared is it generates heat that will need to be cooled and if there adding that to an led light you might as well switch back to hps.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

Ir is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum, just like visible light, only a portion of the spectrum that the human eye can't detect. That being said, just led diodes can produce it. No special heating element needed.

 

[Sinfor]

Ir is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum, just like visible light, only a portion of the spectrum that the human eye can't detect. That being said, just led diodes can produce it. No special heating element needed.

Your own body radiates IR, actually every object with a temperature above absolute zero(-273.15°C) radiates IR. That being said, even an ice cube can produce it.

 

[cdgmoney250]

But, lately, there has been some discussion about the benefits of the infrared light in regards to growing marijuana. Go figure.

Would you mind sharing some of the purported benefits of IR wavelengths that are being discussed in regards to photosynthesis? I was also under the impression that this was hashed out back in the day.

From pretty much all the reading I have done, photosynthesis tops out at around 750nm for c3 plants, which I believe is around the upper limit for the Emerson Effect to take place. Past that, IR and NIR wavelengths don’t have enough energy to elicit photosynthesis to any amount that any of us should be caring about. That’s just as I understand it.

 

[tstick]

Would you mind sharing some of the purported benefits of IR wavelengths that are being discussed in regards to photosynthesis? I was also under the impression that this was hashed out back in the day.

From pretty much all the reading I have done, photosynthesis tops out at around 750nm for c3 plants, which I believe is around the upper limit for the Emerson Effect to take place. Past that, IR and NIR wavelengths don’t have enough energy to elicit photosynthesis to any amount that any of us should be caring about. That’s just as I understand it.

My feeling is that it might not have to do with photosynthesis....but it MIGHT have something to do with ripening.

 

[cdgmoney250]

My feeling is that it might not have to do with photosynthesis....but it MIGHT have something to do with ripening.

I’d say until somebody does a study on morphological changes or differences in total flower weight/cannabinoid content of an LED spectrum with & without IR, or at least tries an anecdotal experiment and provides the documentation of their results along the way, I’m calling bro science on this claim.

From what I can gather from the chatter I’ve seen from IG and forums lately, there is a big discussion happening (again) about LED fixtures and the spectrum they create being deficient in Far Red, Near-Infrared and Infrared (as well as UV, but that’s another topic). While this is true about common spectrum recipes lacking a bit in the Deep Red/FR wavelengths, some of the claims I’ve seen from old HID heads and most LED companies is that adding FR is a “game changer” and that “you don’t have an HPS replacement without 730nm in your spectrum”.

I think it’s mostly:

A) HID growers who have never grown with LED, so their way is automatically superior

B) Commercial Grows who switched from HPS to LED, but don’t understand the environmental requirement differences between the two

C) LED grow light companies who somehow have these “HID Replacement” light recipes by adding 660nm & 730nm diodes to a generic spectrum formula copied by most in the industry, with tons of “in-house” testing that proves why their recipe is better than others, but won’t release any of that data because it’s BS… I mean proprietary.

I believe in trying to optimize the spectrum that plants grow under. I’m just leary of unfounded claims. Doesn’t anybody remember Hortlilux releasing the 600W “Red” Cermanic HPS that was uber heavy on the Red/DR/FR/IR? I know one commercial grow who did one round under those bulbs and then threw them away because the plants grew super messed up. Although the light had the “ultra important wavelengths” the spectrum wasn’t balanced properly for the ppfd the plants were receiving.

rant over

 

[OneHitDone]

Anyone who doesn't believe this applies to plants as well as humans is just silly. That's why I always ask the question of living soil growers - you are optimizing the health and nutrition of the plant through the root zone, why feed them a light diet deficient in wavelengths?

 

[tstick]

I’d say until somebody does a study on morphological changes or differences in total flower weight/cannabinoid content of an LED spectrum with & without IR, or at least tries an anecdotal experiment and provides the documentation of their results along the way, I’m calling bro science on this claim.

From what I can gather from the chatter I’ve seen from IG and forums lately, there is a big discussion happening (again) about LED fixtures and the spectrum they create being deficient in Far Red, Near-Infrared and Infrared (as well as UV, but that’s another topic). While this is true about common spectrum recipes lacking a bit in the Deep Red/FR wavelengths, some of the claims I’ve seen from old HID heads and most LED companies is that adding FR is a “game changer” and that “you don’t have an HPS replacement without 730nm in your spectrum”.

I think it’s mostly:

A) HID growers who have never grown with LED, so their way is automatically superior

B) Commercial Grows who switched from HPS to LED, but don’t understand the environmental requirement differences between the two

C) LED grow light companies who somehow have these “HID Replacement” light recipes by adding 660nm & 730nm diodes to a generic spectrum formula copied by most in the industry, with tons of “in-house” testing that proves why their recipe is better than others, but won’t release any of that data because it’s BS… I mean proprietary.

I believe in trying to optimize the spectrum that plants grow under. I’m just leary of unfounded claims. Doesn’t anybody remember Hortlilux releasing the 600W “Red” Cermanic HPS that was uber heavy on the Red/DR/FR/IR? I know one commercial grow who did one round under those bulbs and then threw them away because the plants grew super messed up. Although the light had the “ultra important wavelengths” the spectrum wasn’t balanced properly for the ppfd the plants were receiving.

rant over

Yeah, but what about terpene and volatile ester development? Your disagreement is in regards to yield. I'm not really making any claim against that. I'm not making any claim at all, in fact. I just have a suspicion that there IS something (maybe unstudied at this point) to other wavelengths of light -not so much in terms of photosynthesis, plant health or overall bulk yield. In fact, it has been my own experience that my plants turned out more fragrant under HPS light and the trichomes were consistently milkier earlier.
I have grown under fluorescents, HID and high-quality LED lights. There's no doubt in my mind that plants grown under LEDs yield more. The buds are bigger and denser, too. HOWEVER, the HID-grown buds were noticeably more fragrant. Since I am a small-time hobbyist grower, I don't care about yield nearly as much as I care about smell and flavor. My last run under HID lights was almost pitiful, by comparison to former LED-grown flowers.... in terms of yield....but what a smell those buds have!

 

[cdgmoney250]

Yeah, but what about terpene and volatile ester development? Your disagreement is in regards to yield. I'm not really making any claim against that. I'm not making any claim at all, in fact. I just have a suspicion that there IS something (maybe unstudied at this point) to other wavelengths of light -not so much in terms of photosynthesis, plant health or overall bulk yield. In fact, it has been my own experience that my plants turned out more fragrant under HPS light and the trichomes were consistently milkier earlier.
I have grown under fluorescents, HID and high-quality LED lights. There's no doubt in my mind that plants grown under LEDs yield more. The buds are bigger and denser, too. HOWEVER, the HID-grown buds were noticeably more fragrant. Since I am a small-time hobbyist grower, I don't care about yield nearly as much as I care about smell and flavor. My last run under HID lights was almost pitiful, by comparison to former LED-grown flowers.... in terms of yield....but what a smell those buds have!

My disagreement includes yield, but like I mentioned previously also includes cannabinoid content. The cool thing about this plant is that the cannabinoid content can change drastically with the exact same cultivar despite yield improving or declining. I believe there are environmental factors including fertilization that can have large effects on total yield in a grow, but I also feel that the cannibinoid/secondary metabolite count and quanta (this includes terpenes) is the real report card in terms of the plant’s overall health and its ability to express its full genetic potential.
Believe me, I’m more about quality than weight myself. I believe they can also go hand in hand. And I do believe that the more broad/natural the spectrum of light, the easier it is for the plants to achieve that expression. I’m just not sure adding individual nanometer LED chips to an already subpar spectrum is the *best way to do it.

 

[OneHitDone]

Bingo, nobody argues that the total amount of Infrared emitted by an hid lamp isn't excessive. But it should be present in sufficient quality to properly heat leaf surfaces.
The technology is there in led - its just a monkey see monkey do - peel the $$ from unknowing weed growers paradise still. Some led company will come along with a light that has all the proper wavelengths and the control / programmability to properly dial in what each plant species would flourish under and vary it by time of day.
Non of this "Raise your ambient temps to achieve transpiration bro" bullshit.