Cant get ph to drop
- Thread starter noob4560
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go go kid
Well-Known Member
sulpher can take 6 monthes to break down and thats with peek bacterial activity, particle size makes a duifferance,
you might want to try this if desperate
How to lower pH in soil with vinegar
Vinegar is a kitchen staple because it has a wide variety of uses; it can be used as a condiment, to add flavor to cooked dishes, and even to clean sinks and counters when the cooking is done. This potent liquid is also useful to gardeners, and it can be used to naturally adjust the pH level of soil without the need for harsh, commercially manufactured products.
Vinegar is a diluted, liquid form of acetic acid, and depending on what the vinegar is made from and how it’s processed, it may also contain other things, like traces of vitamins and minerals. The average pH of commercially manufactured white vinegar, like that sold in supermarkets, is 2.4, making it highly acidic. Organic gardeners can find organically-made vinegar.
Vinegar can be sprayed onto the soil or introduced through an irrigation system. A cup of vinegar mixed with a gallon of water is ideal for plants like azaleas and rhododendrons. Vinegar can be bought in bulk much cheaper than small bottles like this Heinz Multi-Purpose Vinegar (1 Gallon) from Amazon.
you might want to try this if desperate
How to lower pH in soil with vinegar
Vinegar is a kitchen staple because it has a wide variety of uses; it can be used as a condiment, to add flavor to cooked dishes, and even to clean sinks and counters when the cooking is done. This potent liquid is also useful to gardeners, and it can be used to naturally adjust the pH level of soil without the need for harsh, commercially manufactured products.
Vinegar is a diluted, liquid form of acetic acid, and depending on what the vinegar is made from and how it’s processed, it may also contain other things, like traces of vitamins and minerals. The average pH of commercially manufactured white vinegar, like that sold in supermarkets, is 2.4, making it highly acidic. Organic gardeners can find organically-made vinegar.
Vinegar can be sprayed onto the soil or introduced through an irrigation system. A cup of vinegar mixed with a gallon of water is ideal for plants like azaleas and rhododendrons. Vinegar can be bought in bulk much cheaper than small bottles like this Heinz Multi-Purpose Vinegar (1 Gallon) from Amazon.
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
Yep. Calcium carbonate raises pH. Sulfur lowers it. But the microbes help to buffer it too.
simpleleaf
Well-Known Member
I deleted the post when I realized this was organic forum. Carry on.
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
No need to delete it. It wasn't incorrect. I was agreeing with you.
Yes I while I agree organic soil I’ll buffer the ph if slightly off the.. why take the chances? Why not make all the nutrients bio available to the plant in the right ph range from the start so she’s getting the best of both worlds?
GenericEnigma
Well-Known Member
Well, nine times out of ten folks who come on RIU who grow in soil and chase pH end up creating problems where none existed. To put a finer point on it, for the one out of ten who doesn't create a problem where none existed, chasing pH in soil is a lot like using an umbrella on a dry day.
Now if your water comes out the spigot at a pH of 9 or something crazy, that might need to be addressed. It's likely there are bigger issues than pH in such a scenario.
"If the irrigation water contains a high concentration of carbonates and bicarbonates, the substrate solution pH can rise to undesirable levels for cannabis production."
Effects of Abiotic Stress on Soil Microbiome - PMC
Rhizospheric organisms have a unique manner of existence since many factors can influence the shape of the microbiome. As we all know, harnessing the interaction between soil microbes and plants is critical for sustainable agriculture and ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"The most important factor that can affect the population of soil microbiomes is soil pH which can be influenced by metal toxicity, soil structure and texture, source of water and land use intensification."
My tap water comes out at ph 7.5 and it causes my plants to go into lock out about 3-4 weeks into the grow with soil as the calcium buffers the peat over time. The fact is most growers who have problems in soil like mag it’s almost always ph. It’s not hard to correct your ph in soil just stop using tap water start using rain water and water with a soil mix that’s already at the correct ph
GenericEnigma
Well-Known Member
Sure, but it's not the pH causing problems. It's the solutes.
Calcium Carbonate & CaCO3
This has been a study of mine for some weeks, and I'm finding there's two camps to this subject.. the first camp says there's plenty of Calcium in tap water for the ladies to absorb, no need to add it in the soil amendment. The other camp says, no way, my tap water ppm is up the roof with...
www.rollitup.org
lusidghost
Well-Known Member
Have you tried this?
kratos015
Well-Known Member
100% this.
Langbeinite will also work. Langbeinite, or K2Mg2(SO4)3 has sulfur in it that has already been broken down into sulfate. The sulfate in Langbeinite will break down the CaCO3 or any other salts causing pH fluctuations.
Anyone living near farms/large scale agriculture will notice the white powdered Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) that covers their land. They use this because the Sulfate in Gypsum will break down the salt build up that has accrued in their land throughout the growing year.
However, Gypsum is counterintuitive for people with hard water, because you run the risk of having excess Ca levels due to the Calcium in the Gypsum, as well as the Sulfates in the Gypsum breaking down the CaCO3 into their respective Calcium, Carbon, and Oxygen molecules.
If you have hard water, then Langbeinite is a must. And no need to worry about the high K and Mg. K, Mg, and Ca work in unison with one another. The Langbeinite will break down the CaCO3, resulting in the Calcium being absorbed by the plants, the Carbon helping to decompose any Nitrogen in your soil, and the Oxygen helping your roots breath.
The Calcium from the CaCO3 will work in tandem with the Mg and K from the Langbeinite, so there is no need to worry about excess K or Mg levels.
tl;dr: Get yourself some Langbeinite ASAP and your issues should disappear within a week.
Ahh interesting very interesting so this (langbeinite) will break down all the calcium causing the buffering in the first place never even heard of this stuff.. is it okay with organic?s
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Works great in organics. Check the thread that GenericEnigma linked you to and study it in depth and you'll find all the answers you seek.
However, all that info only applies if your water is hard and is responsible for said pH issues.
When I lived in Arizona, I was on well water and the pH was close to 8.0 for my tap water. Buffered the pH too high and caused me loads of issues, always around week 3 of flower due to the salt build up.
If you have water that is hard as a result of Calcium Carbonate, give that thread a read and you'll have your answers.
Regards.
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
Right…that’s why you put everything in the soil before there are plants growing in it. Then you just add water. Wait 30 days after amending soil to normalize ph and no chances are taken.
Thanks sir! I will indeed give it a read! When I was growing coco the extra calcium didn’t matter much as the coco would bond to a lot of the ions.
If your water is hard to begin with you are sitting on a ticking time bomb imo as the calcium will build up I know a lot of people say in organics ph doesn’t matter but salt build does from the hard water and build up of calcium.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
It isn't so much the excess Calcium that causes issues, but the form that the Calcium is in. Not Calcium, but rather Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3), aka Dolomite Lime. It isn't so much the hardness of the water that causes the issue, but what specifically makes the water hard. Salt build up of any type can cause issues, but the worst is when the water source comes from Limestone of any sort, then you're effectively watering with liquid dolomite lime, causing excess alkalinity in your pH that results in these issues.
Peat moss actually has double the CEC that Coco coir does, so I'm honestly stumped as to how there were no issues with coco as opposed to peat moss. Especially since the Peat Moss is acidic, where as the coco is not.
Correct. But if we learn to work with the water instead of against it, we can use this to our advantage. By creating a new soil devoid of any liming agent (no Dolomite Lime, Oyster Shell Flour, etc) then we can use the hard water as our liming agent instead. Once I removed the lime from my soil and continued using my well water as normal, it eliminated all of my issues.
Try it out yourself. Get yourself some peat moss and put it into 2 cups, one with distilled water and the other with hard/well water. Strain, then apply pH drops. You'll note the peat moss is pure red (3.0-4.0 pH) and the well water is a perfect 7.0 pH from the water buffering the peat. Furthermore, wait 48 hours and not that the pH remains the same.
Regards.
It’s mainly because coco is inert so you feed and ph every time you water and a lot of coco growers who don’t have hard water will add calmag into the equation. And yes peat may be acidic but if you keep on watering with hard water the peat will lose its acidity and also become inert like coco then alkaline. I can hardly see myself putting some seedlings or any plant into straight peat moss that’s just asking for a deficiency but at the opposite end of the scale imo… my only solution I can think of is to use rain water or use ro water and then atleast your soil is already buffered to the correct ph and won’t need constant monitoring.. or I’m currently running tests on some tomatoes with Langbeinite but even that in itself is a guessing game. I’d much rather cut the lime out of the equation all together but hey that’s just me! Oh and also Mother Nature.