Yesterday's Mass Shooting.

[DoubleAtotheRON]

The chances are nine in ten they knew each other/domestic disturbance.

Still under investigation, but you're prob right. Still... too close to home when you consider that there are very few homes in a 1 miles radius from me. Everybody has 15-40 acres or more each. Right across from me has 1800 acres.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

Yes if only there were more guns in that situation huh? I know lots of responsible gun owners. No one thinks they’re all bad. But didn’t you feel the handgun was sufficient for your situation? I think most issues in this thread are about AR (or whatever they’re called paddy) style guns. Military style weapons.

Also I don’t think more guns is the answer to the problem. Having more responsible gun owners (like you seem to be) stand up to the republicans politicians and say enough is enough. Have some common sense that the other party is not trying to take ALL your guns and bust out some legislation so my kids can go to school without active shooter drills. Thanks

I grab whatever is handy at the time, Glock, AR, MAC90, Shorty 12G, .410... just depends on where Im at in the house at the time of the tripwire. And yes, I am a responsible gun owner. I don't like it any more than you do, but it is what it is. And if I saw an active shooter in your kids school, you can bet your ass Im gonna take him out.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

Maybe it's the lack of gun contact that has some of you scared. How hard would your heart be beating in a hot situation? Could you hold the gun still without shaking like a leaf in the breeze? Control your breathing? Be aware of what's behind your target? What's going on behind your back? I bet you couldn't. You haven't had enough practice.

 

[MICHI-CAN]

Im def not aggressive. Im about as chill as they come. But I have a wife to protect. It's kinda my responsibility to be on point when we are the police in this remote area.

Ponder that thought.

Protecting from your neighbors?

How about we are guaranteed basic human needs as inalienable rights? You and your look at my shinies is the issue. Fuck capitalism. And some stone cold killers glad you are online and not falling in.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Maybe it's the lack of gun contact that has some of you scared. How hard would your heart be beating in a hot situation? Could you hold the gun still without shaking like a leaf in the breeze? Control your breathing? Be aware of what's behind your target? What's going on behind your back? I bet you couldn't. You haven't had enough practice.

It's hard enough to stay steady when you get too excited let alone worrying about what's behind you. Some call it Buck Fever.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

Ponder that thought.

Protecting from your neighbors?

How about we are guaranteed basic human needs as inalienable rights? You and your look at my shinies is the issue. Fuck capitalism. And some stone cold killers glad you are online and not falling in.

We all look out for each other... if we see something weird, we reach out. Like another time an un tagged van was going around trying to sell "cleaning products".... that just doesn't happen around here. The Sheriffs Dept. got many calls from a 5-6 mile radius of me. They hit my place, but it didn't take long for them to leave if you know what I mean.

 

[MICHI-CAN]

It's hard enough to stay steady when you get too excited let alone worrying about what's behind you. Some call it Buck Fever.

We had BB gun fights with .22's, .32's and ought sixes in our teens. And my cousin admitted to pissing his fatigues in Somalia.

My clan exploit buck fever. LOL.

 

[cannabineer]

Still under investigation, but you're prob right. Still... too close to home when you consider that there are very few homes in a 1 miles radius from me. Everybody has 15-40 acres or more each. Right across from me has 1800 acres.

I’m retiring my .45 in favor of some bear spray.

Bear spray means getting to say I’m sorry.

My state (county actually) allows open carry of bear spray. We get mountain lions and leashless pit bulls, and when i’m walking my blind terrier the latter have surprised us. Coyotes also.

So my kit in case of mountain lion/cougar assault is bear spray/a condom.

Bonus: committing suicide using bear spray requires some serious commitment.

 

[MICHI-CAN]

I’m retiring my .45 in favor of some bear spray.

Bear spray means getting to say I’m sorry.

My state (county actually) allows open carry of bear spray. We get mountain lions and leashless pit bulls, and when i’m walking my blind terrier the latter have surprised us. Coyotes also.

So my kit in case of mountain lion/cougar assault is bear spray/a condom.

Bonus: committing suicide using bear spray requires some serious commitment.

Look into wasp and hornet spray. 20+ foot pin point stream of less than lethal FDA approved version of mace. And pennies on the dollar compared to less effective capsacin as many mammals are less than responsive to it.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

Bonus: committing suicide using bear spray requires some serious commitment.

LOL!.. I have no doubt about that!

 

[Fogdog]

Maybe it's the lack of gun contact that has some of you scared. How hard would your heart be beating in a hot situation? Could you hold the gun still without shaking like a leaf in the breeze? Control your breathing? Be aware of what's behind your target? What's going on behind your back? I bet you couldn't. You haven't had enough practice.

no, it's this image you gave us of an Oklahoma where a FedEx delivery driver has to put his life on the line for every package he delivers. Also the image of behind every door is some fearful old man ready to gun down every person who rings his doorbell.

If that isn't a modern day shithole, I don't know what it is.

It's not working, man. You cling to a past that probably never existed. Every thing you said describes an area with a gun culture that is more like a bag of rattlesnakes than people. And for what? Oklahoma has the 12th highest rate of gun homicides in this country. That sounds bad, right? It is but not as bad as it sounds because the rate stands ad 5.7 per 100000 people. Even in a state with a high rate of gun homicides, death by gun is very rare. Then again, most often it's just a dumbass old man who guns down a neighbor or family member with that gun. Because they were scared and made a mistake.

What you describe matches the statistics, so I believe you. But its not working, man. You would be much better off putting those shooting irons of yours away in a safe, locking them up and not pulling it out when a van comes down your drive because the situation you fear is so unlikely that you'll die of old age before it happens.

 

[cannabineer]

no, it's this image you gave us of an Oklahoma where a FedEx delivery driver has to put his life on the line for every package he delivers. Also the image of behind every door is some fearful old man ready to gun down every person who rings his doorbell.

If that isn't a modern day shithole, I don't know what it is.

It's not working, man. You cling to a past that probably never existed. Every thing you said describes an area with a gun culture that is more like a bag of rattlesnakes than people. And for what? Oklahoma has the 12th highest rate of gun homicides in this country. That sounds bad, right? It is but not as bad as it sounds because the rate stands ad 5.7 per 100000 people. Even in a state with a high rate of gun homicides, death by gun is very rare. Then again, most often it's just a dumbass old man who guns down a neighbor or family member with that gun. Because they were scared and made a mistake.

What you describe matches the statistics, so I believe you. But its not working, man. You would be much better off putting those shooting irons of yours away in a safe, locking them up and not pulling it out when a van comes down your drive because the situation you fear is so unlikely that you'll die of old age before it happens.

I am reminded of

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

no, it's this image you gave us of an Oklahoma where a FedEx delivery driver has to put his life on the line for every package he delivers. Also the image of behind every door is some fearful old man ready to gun down every person who rings his doorbell.

If that isn't a modern day shithole, I don't know what it is.

It's not working, man. You cling to a past that probably never existed. Every thing you said describes an area with a gun culture that is more like a bag of rattlesnakes than people. And for what? Oklahoma has the 12th highest rate of gun homicides in this country. That sounds bad, right? It is but not as bad as it sounds because the rate stands ad 5.7 per 100000 people. Even in a state with a high rate of gun homicides, death by gun is very rare. Then again, most often it's just a dumbass old man who guns down a neighbor or family member with that gun. Because they were scared and made a mistake.

What you describe matches the statistics, so I believe you. But its not working, man. You would be much better off putting those shooting irons of yours away in a safe, locking them up and not pulling it out when a van comes down your drive because the situation you fear is so unlikely that you'll die of old age before it happens.

Statistically, you're right. As I have said, it doesn't happen very often, but again... we ARE the police. I know its hard to wrap your brain around how and where we live and how little contact we have at the door. I guess you'd never know or understand until you are in that environment, and don't get me wrong... it happens very rarely. But, I'd rather be ready than not. We have no police, and I'd do anything to protect my family, and yours. I have no aggression or desire to take someone down, but if there is a threat, it's my job to neutralize it.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

No, this new military style weapon would vaporize anybody with one of those things before they could even get close.

The US Army's new assault rifle coming to local gun stores
Sig Sauer's MCX Spear is designed to punch through body armor at range. Selling to the general public concerns gun regulation advocates.

"It has to bring a significant change to warfare. It has to be lighter. You have to get the range. You have to get the terminal ballistic," explained Sig Sauer CEO Ron Cohen in the promotional video.

The Army’s new rifle is now for sale to the general public, both under the MCX Spear and XM5 names. It currently sells for $8,000. Various vendors we talked to at the Dulles gun show expect that price to go down by half in the coming years.

It can be accurate up to a thousand yards with enough power to punch through nearly all body armor according to the US Army. The Army says it wanted the new .277 Fury round because the Army’s current round, the 5.56 NATO, often fails to punch through enemy body armor at long range.

"There are probably almost no law enforcement agencies, probably almost no domestic police agencies, that are set to have body armor set to defend against the .277 Fury," added Busse.

While police vests can be pierced with current AR-15 rounds, the rounds the MCX Spear shoots are specifically designed to pierce through all but the toughest body armor, according to the US Army.

The US Army's new assault rifle coming to local gun stores

Sig Sauer's MCX Spear is designed to punch through body armor at range. Selling to the general public concerns gun regulation advocates.

www.wusa9.com

So, here it is. A lighter, more powerful and more deadly military style assault weapon is already available to mass killers near you. Police wearing body armor will be vulnerable to it.

Should we nip this one in the bud and put the semi-automatic version of this gun in the same category as military style automatic weapons.?

We should ban the sale of current use military grade weapons, ammo, and armor to civilians, period, until they are deemed safe for public ownership by a committee that should be not only bipartisan, but also at least half actual experts who can supply facts on demand, and not be bullshitted by corporate cocksuckers.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

@Fogdog .... if me and you were in a convince store in let's say San Franciso, and an active robbery was occurring, even tho I don't know you, I'd still take the guy out just to save a strangers life. There are "good guys" that neutralize a situation all the time, you just don't hear about it... because it's not good media. I'm not living in fear by any means. I'm just "situationally aware".... at times when deemed accordingly... kinda depends on where Im going if I carry or not.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Don't kid yourself, I think America could be at a tipping point socially and politically, thanks in no small part to Trump. If the democrats win a big enough majority they will do the following and more:
HR1 on steroids with voting rights, gerrymandering federal districts and dark money are gone among a host of other changes.

Foxnews is gone, the dominion lawsuit the big lie and their covid coverage make it easy to hold public hearings to enact new laws and regulations covering cable broadcast and the internet. The republicans are involved in an illegal conspiracy with fox where the conferred billions in illegal benefits on the republicans. Without foxnews and their alternative reality the republicans are fucked and without the culture wars they will be cut off at the knees, they have no policies or issues.

Domestic terrorism and hate crime laws will mean no guns and no flying for those on it and hate crimes will put them on it. There are many other measures that can be taken and MAGA terrorists should be treated no differently than Muslim terrorists. They will end up being treated like the commies were in the 1950 by the feds.

Trump, the J6 trials, Kevin's clown show in the house and the descent of republicans into fascist madness are making a democratic win possible and radical solutions likely.

If the democrats win a major majority in both houses and take the White House as well, they may have time, amid the mundane things that have to be done, to enact some major legislation on voting rights, reproductive, gender, and social rights, campaign finance reform, and some gun issues.
You've laid out at least 8 years worth of shit that needs to be done, and even with democratic majorities in both houses, the republicans are still going to cause as many problems as they possibly can...Which are numerous...Winning in DC isn't winning in any red states. The democrats need to get into office BEFORE they can begin any election/campaign reform, and it will still take time for those reforms to happen. There are also states that will legitimately remain republican, even if apportioned fairly. Those state legislatures aren't going to be sitting on their hands while this shit happens, they'll be doing eveything they can legally do, and, i'm sure, plenty that isn't even fucking close to legal, to maintain their reign of lies.

So cut your estimate of what will happen in 24 in half, and be damned glad if that happens.

 

[Fogdog]

I guess the problem is simple then, rather than quibble about this gun or that or this round or that being the best for killing people, just ban semi-automatic arms, cock and shot and register that while paying an annual tax. All semi-automatic weapons are illegal, even pistols, don't bother with mag capacity with a bolt action or a lever operated with a tube mag.

Unless a reasonable compromise is reached or is constitutionally possible, an unreasonable constitutional one will be implemented by the federal government. They already banned assault weapons once and can do the same thing with all semi-automatic guns, including pistols, fuck around and find out.

no, you just don't get it. Not ban. People afflicted with fear if they don't have a gun at hand aren't going to give up their unreasonable fear or gun and will fight back. Besides for the most part it's an unreasonable fear on both sides. It is rare that they will commit homicide and rarer still that they need to defend themselves.

If left alone rattlesnakes prefer to live in peace with the occasional rabbit taking the hit. So leave them alone. What we are talking about is making sure that young rattlesnakes who are more likely to strike without good reason have small fangs and little venom. Also take venom sacs away from rattlesnakes that have demonstrated they are too aggressive or angry to be trusted with the ability to strike. Other than that, do not let the population of rattlesnakes develop the capacity to carry a large amount of venom because studies show that rattlesnakes who decide to commit mass murder are limited in their damage when they can't strike quickly for a great number of times.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

no, you just don't get it. Not ban. People afflicted with fear if they don't have a gun at hand aren't going to give up their unreasonable fear or gun and will fight back. Besides for the most part it's an unreasonable fear on both sides. It is rare that they will commit homicide and rarer still that they need to defend themselves.

If left alone rattlesnakes prefer to live in peace with the occasional rabbit taking the hit. So leave them alone. What we are talking about is making sure that young rattlesnakes who are more likely to strike without good reason have small fangs and little venom. Also take venom sacs away from rattlesnakes that have demonstrated they are too aggressive or angry to be trusted with the ability to strike. Other than that, do not let the population of rattlesnakes develop the capacity to carry a large amount of venom because studies show that rattlesnakes who decide to commit mass murder are limited in their damage when they can't strike quickly for a great number of times.

I'm assuming you just set the bong down... just ribbin' you man. Snakes and shit...... or did I just set the bong down?

 

[cannabineer]

no, you just don't get it. Not ban. People afflicted with fear if they don't have a gun at hand aren't going to give up their unreasonable fear or gun and will fight back. Besides for the most part it's an unreasonable fear on both sides. It is rare that they will commit homicide and rarer still that they need to defend themselves.

If left alone rattlesnakes prefer to live in peace with the occasional rabbit taking the hit. So leave them alone. What we are talking about is making sure that young rattlesnakes who are more likely to strike without good reason have small fangs and little venom. Also take venom sacs away from rattlesnakes that have demonstrated they are too aggressive or angry to be trusted with the ability to strike. Other than that, do not let the population of rattlesnakes develop the capacity to carry a large amount of venom because studies show that rattlesnakes who decide to commit mass murder are limited in their damage when they can't strike quickly for a great number of times.

the reptiles will be even more pacific if someone feeds them RattleSnacks ™️

 

[Fogdog]

@Fogdog .... if me and you were in a convince store in let's say San Franciso, and an active robbery was occurring, even tho I don't know you, I'd still take the guy out just to save a strangers life. There are "good guys" that neutralize a situation all the time, you just don't hear about it... because it's not good media. I'm not living in fear by any means. I'm just "situationally aware".... at times when deemed accordingly... kinda depends on where Im going if I carry or not.

That isn't going to happen so stop it with the gun fantasies. What you are expressing is irrrational fear.

------------------------------Crime rates/murder rates
----------------------------------(per 100,000 people)
Oklahoma City --------------------- 4552/12.49
Tulsa-------------------------------- 6532/17.29
San Francisco----------------------- 6917/ 6.35
Portland, Or-------------------------6240/ 3.70

I'm not saying SF or Portland have it good when it comes to crime but they aren't any different from OK City or Tulsa. That said, the two largest cities in OK have three or four times the homicide rates. But in the big picture, they are all safe cities. Your fear is not rational. You are more likely to hurt yourself or others with your guns, much more likely, than ever really need to defend yourself with it.

I'm not advocating taking your or any other legally owned guns away, I'm just saying there are ways to reduce gun violence and death and we should do that. Oregon is trying to do it. At this time a sizeable minority of people like you are fearful of losing their gun rights because of Measure 114 but that too is not rational. Measure 114 does not prevent anybody who already has the right to buy a gun from doing so. Or guns that are already legally owned. I don't know how many will die before we manage to get that law or something like it in place and that will be a tragedy.

If you are OK with your great cities having 3 or 4 times the gun homicide rate than seen in SF or Portland, that's not my concern. Just don't tell me it's inevitable because its not. I'm situationally aware. I don't make other people less safe because I'm afraid of what's very, very unlikely to happen.