SOG - how many days veg, what size pot for clones?

[GreenRat]

I have a lot of experience with cultivation, but I don't know much about cloning. In this topic I would like to ask some questions, but not about the cloning itself, but first I need to determine the number of plants, veg time and pot size.

I'm going to keep two small mothers in one growbox - WhiteWidow and Lemon Skunk (Green House Seeds).
Basically, I'm looking to find out the most effective method of growing clones in two small 60x60x160cm (24''x 24''x 63'') growboxes using SOG.

I'm thinking five or nine plants per tent.
When growing AF or photoperiod plants from seeds with 25-30 days veg, I usually get 150-200g (5-7oz) per room in 85-100 days. Led Quantum Board 110W.
How many veg days do you suggest (zero? 1 week?) and what size of plants (how many grams/oz) can I expect?

I would like to use the vertical space in the tent as much as possible, so I will probably try to get one long bud by cutting off the side branches.
The distance I will have for the whole plant, counting from the soil surface it will be about 100-110cm (3.3ft) while maintaining the right distance to the lamp.


How many days will such cultivation take with veg 1 week?

 

[GreenRat]

Nobody help?

 

[graying.geek]

I have a lot of experience with cultivation, but I don't know much about cloning. In this topic I would like to ask some questions, but not about the cloning itself, but first I need to determine the number of plants, veg time and pot size.

I'm going to keep two small mothers in one growbox - WhiteWidow and Lemon Skunk (Green House Seeds).
Basically, I'm looking to find out the most effective method of growing clones in two small 60x60x160cm (24''x 24''x 63'') growboxes using SOG.

I'm thinking five or nine plants per tent.
When growing AF or photoperiod plants from seeds with 25-30 days veg, I usually get 150-200g (5-7oz) per room in 85-100 days. Led Quantum Board 110W.
How many veg days do you suggest (zero? 1 week?) and what size of plants (how many grams/oz) can I expect?

I would like to use the vertical space in the tent as much as possible, so I will probably try to get one long bud by cutting off the side branches.
The distance I will have for the whole plant, counting from the soil surface it will be about 100-110cm (3.3ft) while maintaining the right distance to the lamp.


How many days will such cultivation take with veg 1 week?

If I understand correctly, you have 3 rooms: 1 for mothers, and 2 (60 x 60) for grows, each with a (true) 110W LED board. If you're already harvesting 150-200g from each room every 100 days, I'd say you're close to maxing out your yield without adding CO2 and more wattage. That said, I'd suggest putting 4 plants in each grow tent in 8 or 20 liter pots, add a scrog screen 30cm above your pots, and stick to your 100 day schedule. Especially with your limited vertical space, a scrog will be more efficient than a single cola.

 

[curious2garden]

If I understand correctly, you have 3 rooms: 1 for mothers, and 2 (60 x 60) for grows, each with a (true) 110W LED board. If you're already harvesting 150-200g from each room every 100 days, I'd say you're close to maxing out your yield without adding CO2 and more wattage. That said, I'd suggest putting 4 plants in each grow tent in 8 or 20 liter pots, add a scrog screen 30cm above your pots, and stick to your 100 day schedule. Especially with your limited vertical space, a scrog will be more efficient than a single cola.

If you figure between 1.5-2 grams/LED watt he is light limited.

 

[Thundercat]

I have a lot of experience with cultivation, but I don't know much about cloning. In this topic I would like to ask some questions, but not about the cloning itself, but first I need to determine the number of plants, veg time and pot size.

I'm going to keep two small mothers in one growbox - WhiteWidow and Lemon Skunk (Green House Seeds).
Basically, I'm looking to find out the most effective method of growing clones in two small 60x60x160cm (24''x 24''x 63'') growboxes using SOG.

I'm thinking five or nine plants per tent.
When growing AF or photoperiod plants from seeds with 25-30 days veg, I usually get 150-200g (5-7oz) per room in 85-100 days. Led Quantum Board 110W.
How many veg days do you suggest (zero? 1 week?) and what size of plants (how many grams/oz) can I expect?

I would like to use the vertical space in the tent as much as possible, so I will probably try to get one long bud by cutting off the side branches.
The distance I will have for the whole plant, counting from the soil surface it will be about 100-110cm (3.3ft) while maintaining the right distance to the lamp.


How many days will such cultivation take with veg 1 week?

I ran SOG for 10 years in a tight space, not as tight as your but it can work.

I used 6inch square pots Filled with hydroton, in flood and drain trays. I kept a couple small mother plants and took clones every 2ish weeks to create a perpetual cycle.

Those clones went into a domed clone tray until they rooted. Then I potted them into their 6inch pots, usually 10-14 days after being cut. They went into my veg space under a t5 floro light and vegged ,for about 2 weeks, until they were about 7-8 inches tall and had developed some roots in the rocks.

Next they moved to the flower tray under a 1k hps in a wide air cooled hood. When I moved them into flower I would remove any bottom branches that had started to form and just keep the leaves and the upper few growth points on the clone. This encouraged all the growth to go into those upper nodes creating good single cola growth. This allowed me to easily fit 45 plants into a 4x4 flood tray.

They started out flower at about 8 inches and depending on the genetics finished somewhere between 20-30 inches tall typically. With little side branching and a dominant main cola they were nice easy plants to harvest and trim and didn’t produce any larf.

I averaged 20g dried per plant for years with mixed genetics, some genetics it was 16-18g a plant but most would give me around 25g, with some genetics reaching over 30g each.

 

[graying.geek]

If you figure between 1.5-2 grams/LED watt he is light limited.

Agree. OP could increase wattage by 75%.

 

[GreenRat]

If I understand correctly, you have 3 rooms: 1 for mothers, and 2 (60 x 60) for grows, each with a (true) 110W LED board. If you're already harvesting 150-200g from each room every 100 days, I'd say you're close to maxing out your yield without adding CO2 and more wattage. That said, I'd suggest putting 4 plants in each grow tent in 8 or 20 liter pots, add a scrog screen 30cm above your pots, and stick to your 100 day schedule. Especially with your limited vertical space, a scrog will be more efficient than a single cola.

I ran SOG for 10 years in a tight space, not as tight as your but it can work.

I used 6inch square pots Filled with hydroton, in flood and drain trays. I kept a couple small mother plants and took clones every 2ish weeks to create a perpetual cycle.

Those clones went into a domed clone tray until they rooted. Then I potted them into their 6inch pots, usually 10-14 days after being cut. They went into my veg space under a t5 floro light and vegged ,for about 2 weeks, until they were about 7-8 inches tall and had developed some roots in the rocks.

Next they moved to the flower tray under a 1k hps in a wide air cooled hood. When I moved them into flower I would remove any bottom branches that had started to form and just keep the leaves and the upper few growth points on the clone. This encouraged all the growth to go into those upper nodes creating good single cola growth. This allowed me to easily fit 45 plants into a 4x4 flood tray.

They started out flower at about 8 inches and depending on the genetics finished somewhere between 20-30 inches tall typically. With little side branching and a dominant main cola they were nice easy plants to harvest and trim and didn’t produce any larf.

I averaged 20g dried per plant for years with mixed genetics, some genetics it was 16-18g a plant but most would give me around 25g, with some genetics reaching over 30g each.

Thank you for your help, useful information.

Thundercat - How many days were the cultivation of White Widow Indica strains, counting from the moment of planting a rooted clone, let's say with a veg 10 days?
I wonder how much I could pull from one tent 60x60cm, from 9 plants in 6-7l pots, clones WW with a veg 7-10 days.

Graying.Geek - you understood well, that's what my cultivation looked like, but without clones. I usually used LST and additionally put on a net for some time to level the plants to the same height, so it was a kind of ScroG.
But then the upper part of the tent was not used, so I thought that high plants with one top would better use the space of the upper part of the growbox.
I am thinking about your idea to stay with four plants (VEG 25 days) at 100 days of cultivation. I would use the third tent to vegetative growth of new plants. Then I would not be dependent on one/two mothers producing clones, but I could use the seeds of various strains.

I will try CO2 soon, I already have equipment, I am waiting for another cultivation. How much percentage can I increase my yield by using CO2?
I use Quantum board PRO 110W led lamps based on SAMSUNG LM301B, so far it's the best led I've had. Plants love it.

 

[graying.geek]

Thank you for your help, useful information.

Thundercat - How many days were the cultivation of White Widow Indica strains, counting from the moment of planting a rooted clone, let's say with a veg 10 days?
I wonder how much I could pull from one tent 60x60cm, from 9 plants in 6-7l pots, clones WW with a veg 7-10 days.

Graying.Geek - you understood well, that's what my cultivation looked like, but without clones. I usually used LST and additionally put on a net for some time to level the plants to the same height, so it was a kind of ScroG.
But then the upper part of the tent was not used, so I thought that high plants with one top would better use the space of the upper part of the growbox.
I am thinking about your idea to stay with four plants (VEG 25 days) at 100 days of cultivation. I would use the third tent to vegetative growth of new plants. Then I would not be dependent on one/two mothers producing clones, but I could use the seeds of various strains.

I will try CO2 soon, I already have equipment, I am waiting for another cultivation. How much percentage can I increase my yield by using CO2?
I use Quantum board PRO 110W led lamps based on SAMSUNG LM30@1B, so far it's the best led I've had. Plants love it.

@curious2garden caught what I missed: your LED wattage is low. I would add at LEAST 50 more watts of LED in each grow tent before considering CO2. You want close to 40W/sqft and you have 4 sqft in each tent.

 

[Thundercat]

Thank you for your help, useful information.

Thundercat - How many days were the cultivation of White Widow Indica strains, counting from the moment of planting a rooted clone, let's say with a veg 10 days?
I wonder how much I could pull from one tent 60x60cm, from 9 plants in 6-7l pots, clones WW with a veg 7-10 days.

I had a WW from G13labs that I kept for 4ish years. It was an awesome plant that I later regretted letting go. It was definitely a hybrid plant, not indica dominant, and it was one of my best yielding and smoking strains I ever grew.

In the system I had going the plants got 10-14 days veg and really as much time as needed to flower.
I don’t encourage counting days until harvest there are to many variables in each persons garden and it often times results in early harvesting. With that being said the white widow took a solid 10-11 weeks to properly finish and usually yielded over 30g per plant dried. I never ran CO2 or had very good temp/humidity control, had to work with hat I could manage, so I think there was even more room for improvement.

9 plants would fit easily in a 60cm x 60cm space, you could probably even get away with 12. Or I honestly bet you could find 5inch pots and fit 16 and not loose much if any yield per pot but significantly increase the yield for the whole tent. So if you found a WW that grew like mine(30g perplant) in your garden you could yield somewhere between 270g-480g with enough light and airflow. You are more likely to average closer to 20g per-plant, especially with limited light, which would put yields in the 180g-320g range.

Light, air and temps are the key. As others have said you need enough light so it isn’t a limiting factor on the total garden.

 

[GreenRat]

@curious2garden caught what I missed: your LED wattage is low. I would add at LEAST 50 more watts of LED in each grow tent before considering CO2. You want close to 40W/sqft and you have 4 sqft in each tent.

I came up with the idea to buy two additional Quantum Board 110W lamps and change tents to new ones with dimensions of 70x70x200cm.
Then I would give the plant a little more veg, about 30 days.
220W for an area of 70x70, it should probably be enough, right?
4 plants in 15l pots (or larger, if necessary)

 

[GreenRat]

I had a WW from G13labs that I kept for 4ish years. It was an awesome plant that I later regretted letting go. It was definitely a hybrid plant, not indica dominant, and it was one of my best yielding and smoking strains I ever grew.

In the system I had going the plants got 10-14 days veg and really as much time as needed to flower.
I don’t encourage counting days until harvest there are to many variables in each persons garden and it often times results in early harvesting. With that being said the white widow took a solid 10-11 weeks to properly finish and usually yielded over 30g per plant dried. I never ran CO2 or had very good temp/humidity control, had to work with hat I could manage, so I think there was even more room for improvement.

9 plants would fit easily in a 60cm x 60cm space, you could probably even get away with 12. Or I honestly bet you could find 5inch pots and fit 16 and not loose much if any yield per pot but significantly increase the yield for the whole tent. So if you found a WW that grew like mine(30g perplant) in your garden you could yield somewhere between 270g-480g with enough light and airflow. You are more likely to average closer to 20g per-plant, especially with limited light, which would put yields in the 180g-320g range.

Light, air and temps are the key. As others have said you need enough light so it isn’t a limiting factor on the total garden.

Very useful information, finally I know what to expect from the cultivation of WW from clones with short veg.
20-25g/plant even when growing only 9 plants, it would be satisfying for me.
For now, I had three ideas to buy White Widow.
GHS, Barneys Farm and Seedsman, maybe I will also try G13.

 

[graying.geek]

I came up with the idea to buy two additional Quantum Board 110W lamps and change tents to new ones with dimensions of 70x70x200cm.
Then I would give the plant a little more veg, about 30 days.
220W for an area of 70x70, it should probably be enough, right?
4 plants in 15l pots (or larger, if necessary)

Yeah, that will work; you end up with ~42W/sqft so you're on target. 30 days of veg at half wattage should be fine, as long as your canopy is 70% full when you go to flowering schedule at full wattage.