The Junk Drawer

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
The influence of religion is waning in most of the world including America.

apnews.com

In Europe's empty churches, prayer and confessions make way for drinking and dancing

Across Europe, churches, convents and chapels stand empty and increasingly derelict after faith and church attendance shriveled over the past half century.
apnews.com apnews.com
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Ironically it has no place in the post-truth era. Why make up shit about the creation, sky wizards and messiahs thousands of years ago when you can make up just about anything these days.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied said:
Ironically it has no place in the post-truth era. Why make up shit about the creation, sky wizards and messiahs thousands of years ago when you can make up just about anything these days.
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Oddly, the evangelical movement is strong enough in US to distort our politics. It is characterized by a zealous intolerance of anything seen as heretical. The right in this country is in bed with the dominionists (who seek to undo any separation of church and state, and have sharia-like ideas of governance). The combination is proving quite conducive to fascism.

I think the movement has such a hold because its leaders have perfected the art of convincing their adherents that moral society (not to mention the eternal disposition of their immortal souls in heaven or hellfire) is under siege by a fabricated mindset reminiscent of the satanic tinge the Protocols, a seminal antisemitic calumny, had. It was a driver for the Holocaust and pogroms further east. Social and political liberals, which now includes the center, are portrayed as the carriers and agents of moral plague.

This siege mentality combined with an extortionate avarice, still illustrated by the success of Save America sucking up money into that man’s hands, creates a Stockholm syndrome. They’re effectively recruiting younger citizens into the cult, so here at least I see lasting danger from the coalition of activist churches and authoritarian politics.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Oddly, the evangelical movement is strong enough in US to distort our politics. It is characterized by a zealous intolerance of anything seen as heretical. The right in this country is in bed with the dominionists (who seek to undo any separation of church and state, and have sharia-like ideas of governance). The combination is proving quite conducive to fascism.

I think the movement has such a hold because its leaders have perfected the art of convincing their adherents that moral society (not to mention the eternal disposition of their immortal souls in heaven or hellfire) is under siege by a fabricated mindset reminiscent of the satanic tinge the Protocols, a seminal antisemitic calumny, had. It was a driver for the Holocaust and pogroms further east. Social and political liberals, which now includes the center, are portrayed as the carriers and agents of moral plague.

This siege mentality combined with an extortionate avarice, still illustrated by the success of Save America sucking up money into that man’s hands, creates a Stockholm syndrome. They’re effectively recruiting younger citizens into the cult, so here at least I see lasting danger from the coalition of activist churches and authoritarian politics.
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The MAGA movement is moving fringe-ward. The Trumpism/MAGA movement attracts mostly older people and a small cadre of INCEL young men. Young women are most likely to be repelled by it. MAGA is a coalition of Republican Christian and an illiberal radical right movement. Whether it be civil rights, environment or gun control, their policies aren't friendly to today's youth. GOP leaders don't appeal to young voters either. The GOP's replacement rate is lower than its drop out rate. This is not sustainable.

prospect.org

Republicans Declare War on Young Voters

The GOP answer to anger about its abortion, climate, and gun control crusades is to double down.
prospect.org prospect.org

But as unpopular as Biden is, Trump is what disaster in real time looks like, and young voters generally know it. What was true in 2012 for Republicans sounds like a wickedly gross understatement today. “Our Party knows how to appeal to older voters, but we have lost our way with younger ones. We sound increasingly out of touch.”

IMO, we are past the apex of the MAGA movement. The crisis is not over, just not as bad as it was in 2016. They are getting more dangerous but less powerful politically as each year goes by. But an old mule can deliver a good kick so not time to let down our guard.
 
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Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
They’re effectively recruiting younger citizens into the cult, so here at least I see lasting danger from the coalition of activist churches and authoritarian politics.
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I don’t disagree with your eloquent assessment, hopefully they are final convulsions of a dying breed. My worry is the same people who used the bible to get their evil ways are escalating to what seems to be an alternative to abrahamic religions. It appears to me that the qanon trumpian post-truth nonsense comes at a cost for christianity as it often involves straying from the christian path. Are those new recruits attracted by the jewish commandment, words about Jesus and bible stories, or, because they can join a tribe where they can go full post-truth and still be accepted as one of them. I found the evangelical and calvinist weirdos I dealt with most (types like Betsy the Fox who you know by her dutch name) have this strange urge to make things up. As if having to accept the big lie (christian god) broke their brain, cognitive dissonance overload. Made them not only numb to bullshit but developed a desire for accepting it, from themselves or others, like a nicotin junkie yearning for a ciggie or at least some second-hand smoke.
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I don’t disagree with your eloquent assessment, hopefully they are final convulsions of a dying breed. My worry is the same people who used the bible to get their evil ways are escalating to what seems to be an alternative to abrahamic religions. It appears to me that the qanon trumpian post-truth nonsense comes at a cost for christianity as it often involves straying from the christian path. Are those new recruits attracted by the jewish commandment, words about Jesus and bible stories, or, because they can join a tribe where they can go full post-truth and still be accepted as one of them. I found the evangelical and calvinist weirdos I dealt with most (types like Betsy the Fox who you know by her dutch name) have this strange urge to make things up. As if having to accept the big lie (christian god) broke their brain, cognitive dissonance overload. Made them not only numb to bullshit but developed a desire for accepting it, from themselves or others, like a nicotin junkie yearning for a ciggie or at least some second-hand smoke.
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This. Yes. 100%.

This is why all religion is evil and ruins everything. I am not using hyperbole. Yes, by my accounts, it ruins everything.

Once a person has crossed the line of accepting anything without evidence as actionable truth, it can be done again and again - and such a thought dynamic can be used to manipulate them repeatedly.

Voltaire's axiom on absurdities and atrocities isn't a philosophical exercise. Case in point: watch Christians define homosexuality as a sin with no biblical foundation (as if a biblical foundation truly matters).
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied said:
I don’t disagree with your eloquent assessment, hopefully they are final convulsions of a dying breed. My worry is the same people who used the bible to get their evil ways are escalating to what seems to be an alternative to abrahamic religions. It appears to me that the qanon trumpian post-truth nonsense comes at a cost for christianity as it often involves straying from the christian path. Are those new recruits attracted by the jewish commandment, words about Jesus and bible stories, or, because they can join a tribe where they can go full post-truth and still be accepted as one of them. I found the evangelical and calvinist weirdos I dealt with most (types like Betsy the Fox who you know by her dutch name) have this strange urge to make things up. As if having to accept the big lie (christian god) broke their brain, cognitive dissonance overload. Made them not only numb to bullshit but developed a desire for accepting it, from themselves or others, like a nicotin junkie yearning for a ciggie or at least some second-hand smoke.
Click to expand...
GenericEnigma said:
This. Yes. 100%.

This is why all religion is evil and ruins everything. I am not using hyperbole. Yes, by my accounts, it ruins everything.

Once a person has crossed the line of accepting anything without evidence as actionable truth, it can be done again and again - and such a thought dynamic can be used to manipulate them repeatedly.

Voltaire's axiom on absurdities and atrocities isn't a philosophical exercise. Case in point: watch Christians define homosexuality as a sin with no biblical foundation (as if a biblical foundation truly matters).
Click to expand...
I can surmise that whatever limbic reward was provided by that first departure from reason, getting even more divorced from reality provides the same hit. It’s like a pilot going into a spiral dive: it’s not that bad at first, but seamlessly gets less recoverable.

Only by imagining such self-amplifying contradictions between cognition and emotion can I even slightly process things like tent revivals and maga rallies.

1687483150856.jpeg
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I can surmise that whatever limbic reward was provided by that first departure from reason, getting even more divorced from reality provides the same hit. It’s like a pilot going into a spiral dive: it’s not that bad at first, but seamlessly gets less recoverable.

Only by imagining such self-amplifying contradictions between cognition and emotion can I even slightly process things like tent revivals and maga rallies.

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To really experience how they think, or don’t think, looks like you’d have to partially shut down the higher cortical areas of your brain.

www.psychologytoday.com

The Brains of Believers and Non-Believers Work Differently

Not believing in God is more than just a lack of belief; it's due to the activity of distinct higher cortical brain networks.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com

It just shows how important it is to teach critical thinking to kids, train the bullshit detector portion of their brains, and keep religion out of schools.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied said:
To really experience how they think, or don’t think, looks like you’d have to partially shut down the higher cortical areas of your brain.

www.psychologytoday.com

The Brains of Believers and Non-Believers Work Differently

Not believing in God is more than just a lack of belief; it's due to the activity of distinct higher cortical brain networks.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com

It just shows how important it is to teach critical thinking to kids, train the bullshit detector portion of their brains, and keep religion out of schools.
Click to expand...
An interesting idea, that credulity had evolutionary value.

The article stopped short of my hypothesis, which (incorporating their thesis) suggests that there is a leftover reward (akin to an addictive drug effect) built into starting and maintaining the credulous state. One that is not triggered or serviced by rational thought. “High on Jesus” assumes a more literal meaning.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Looks like CNN is boasting about investigating and exposing something known for days but this sums up something tragic that has been dominating the news here for a while. Well, at least till a handful of rich folk felt the need to visit the Titanic in a large soda can.


It’s partly the result of paying Erdogan billions to keep north africans and middle-easteners from walking to the EU through Turkey. More people take even more risks now crossing the Mediterranean sea. Our (dutch) pm Rutte, and Von der Leyden (eu) and Meloni (“former-fascist” leader of Italy) went to Tunesia a couple of weeks ago, trying to make a “Turkey deal” with them as well as other African countries.
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
An interesting idea, that credulity had evolutionary value.

The article stopped short of my hypothesis, which (incorporating their thesis) suggests that there is a leftover reward (akin to an addictive drug effect) built into starting and maintaining the credulous state. One that is not triggered or serviced by rational thought. “High on Jesus” assumes a more literal meaning.
Click to expand...
I believe the evolutionary value is our brains' tendency to seek and identify patterns. This tendency imparts rudimentary survival skills in the absence of true science. Add ignorance of fundamental concepts, toss in some primal fear - voila, superstition is born.

I think the "high on Jesus" aspect may have something to do with the expected-response dynamic - like the one that causes us to enjoy the same songs repeatedly.

But I am definitely out of my depth. This post was born of TED Talks and Holiday Inns.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
GenericEnigma said:
I believe the evolutionary value is our brains' tendency to seek and identify patterns. This tendency imparts rudimentary survival skills in the absence of true science. Add ignorance of fundamental concepts, toss in some primal fear - voila, superstition is born.

I think the "high on Jesus" aspect may have something to do with the expected-response dynamic - like the one that causes us to enjoy the same songs repeatedly.

But I am definitely out of my depth. This post was born of TED Talks and Holiday Inns.
Click to expand...
Now, had that been a Holiday Inn Express … :D

 
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