Anyone willing to take a look at these? Cannot Determine Cause / Nutrient Imbalances

[mbrowne1620]

So it's ok outdoors to flush but not indoors... seems like an odd rule. I've seen popular growers do it like Soma with his rooftop grows. Just confused by the idea of it. Don't flush your soil...but hey, there's rain outside..with no worries about it .

You're still confusing the point of a flush. It's not to wash our nutrients. It's to wash out built up salts... which are water soluble.

 

[mbrowne1620]

Good point, just mind twisted right now by it all. I could make a point for and against anything but this one has me on the fence right now. I'll have to take this to discussion to an outdoor thread. Because I'm all jacked up right now. I know a grower who would bring all his pots inside whenever it rained. So yeah, whatever works for the guy doing it.

I'm sorry to hear your friend is making so much work for himself. But your confusion lies in the purpose of a flush.

The organic and outdoor forums will quickly clear this up for you if you go looking.

Like I said, it does make logical sense, I just think the detrimental effects (if any) are way over-exaggerated, probably by indoor growers who have no experience growing outside.

There's about a gazillion people growing weed, tomatoes, and other annuals in pots on their deck/patio, who don't sweat it when it rains. That's not scientific proof but I do feel like it says a lot...

This point exemplifies the position. Plenty of people grow in pots outdoors and don't lose their nutrients to water.

 

[OneHitDone]

Most "rain" is not going to push the volume of water through the pot as a "flush" used in synthetic grows.
Worst case you may have to top dress some food or give a little liquid feed more regularly.
If your dealing with monsoon rains you probably have bigger problems than nutrient availability on plants that are most likely deep into flower at this point

 

[Week4@inCharge]

You're still confusing the point of a flush. It's not to wash our nutrients. It's to wash out built up salts... which are water soluble.

how do salt buildups occur in an organic grow? Is that possible? Why would you want to flush in an organic pot?

 

[mbrowne1620]

how do salt buildups occur in an organic grow? Is that possible? Why would you want to flush in an organic pot?

Salts build up in a non-organic grow, from liquid nutrients and processed liquid food products.

That's why flushing is not something organic growers do... They're not necessary with organic amendments and foods.

When you over feed with those liquid foods, they build up salts which lock out nutrients by restricting the plants ability to uptake nutrients through the root system.

Flushing allows you to wash out those salts and start from scratch.

Organic farming isn't really directly feeding the plant, you are feeding the soil.

 

[Week4@inCharge]

Salts build up in a non-organic grow, from liquid nutrients and processed liquid food products.

That's why flushing is not something organic growers do... They're not necessary with organic amendments and foods.

When you over feed with those liquid foods, they build up salts which lock out nutrients by restricting the plants ability to uptake nutrients through the root system.

Flushing allows you to wash out those salts and start from scratch.

Organic farming isn't really directly feeding the plant, you are feeding the soil.

That's what I've been trying to tell you guys... why you flushing an organic pot then? Isn't that the same with the rain? you don't think the rainwater will flush out your organic pot? I'm done... we're chasing our tails here.

 

[mbrowne1620]

That's what I've been trying to tell you guys... why you flushing an organic pot then? Isn't that the same with the rain? you don't think the rainwater will flush out your organic pot? I'm done... we're chasing our tails here.

I'm not flushing my pots out.... And even if i did, it would serve no purpose.

Rainwater does not flush the organic pot because there is nothing to flush.

In organics, we don't AVOID flushing the pot. We can flush it if we wanted to... we just don't even need to, because we don't have the issue with salts.

My entire pot can get saturated with rain water through the day, not going to have an impact, because I don't have salt built up from highly concentrated liquid foods.

It also isn't going to flush the nutrients out of my pot, because water doesn't do that.

I think this is where you keep getting confused. Only water soluble nutrients can be washed out, and thats if they are still present after being presented to the soil. The water soluble nutrients are consumed quickly, and don't sit in the soil very long.


If we wanted to work on hypotheticals, any food left over which hasn't been consumed by the soil bacterium AND is water soluble, that could possible be washed away.

But what is water soluble is a small portion of the nutrients in the soil, so not relevant to my issue really.


@Week4@inCharge I hope you realize I'm not arguing with you here, I'm just trying to explain how this whole concept works.

This isn't a personal theory of mine, its tried, true and proven through generations of organic farming.

This is one of the largest upsides to organic farming.... You don't have to flush, ever, and it is extremely difficult to over feed the plant with organic foods.


If you don't want to take my word for it, start reading through the organic forums. You will see this concept covered over and over again.

 

[Kassiopeija]

Salts build up in a non-organic grow, from liquid nutrients and processed liquid food products.

That's why flushing is not something organic growers do... They're not necessary with organic amendments and foods.

When you over feed with those liquid foods, they build up salts which lock out nutrients by restricting the plants ability to uptake nutrients through the root system.

Flushing allows you to wash out those salts and start from scratch.

Organic farming isn't really directly feeding the plant, you are feeding the soil.

All the soil outdoors has most its nutrients only in latent organic form yet the rainwater leeches mineralized ions from the soil solution and into the groundwater -or sea- and this is where e.g. the sulfur or nitrate in tapwater comes from, and these 2 do also have a circle - from and back into the soil.

What flushing or rain can't do is take away nutes that are still in the solid phase or, strong sorptively bound.

 

[Week4@inCharge]

All the soil outdoors has most its nutrients only in latent organic form yet the rainwater leeches mineralized ions from the soil solution and into the groundwater -or sea- and this is where e.g. the sulfur or nitrate in tapwater comes from, and these 2 do also have a circle - from and back into the soil.

What flushing or rain can't do is take away nutes that are still in the solid phase or, strong sorptively bound.

I'm with you on that, ground , soil, grass, tress, the forest, etc. but in pots? What size pots is he in? are they 5 gallon pots? can we even have a healthy biological organic environment in 5 gallon pots (when we have folks like Build A Soil recommending at least 15 gallon?) We have the power of miles of soil, fungi and bacteria in the confines of 5gallons or so..wow, that's amazing. Now lets add water, no matter what the source is, filling it ten times the volume or more. You see where I'm coming from? Anyways, don't want to drive this anymore than I've already have. His pots seem like they are sitting on soil and the roots most likely have gone through the bottom (of the fabric pots) into the soil. Wish him all the best with his grow.

 

[Week4@inCharge]

I'm not flushing my pots out.... And even if i did, it would serve no purpose.

Rainwater does not flush the organic pot because there is nothing to flush.

In organics, we don't AVOID flushing the pot. We can flush it if we wanted to... we just don't even need to, because we don't have the issue with salts.

My entire pot can get saturated with rain water through the day, not going to have an impact, because I don't have salt built up from highly concentrated liquid foods.

It also isn't going to flush the nutrients out of my pot, because water doesn't do that.

I think this is where you keep getting confused. Only water soluble nutrients can be washed out, and thats if they are still present after being presented to the soil. The water soluble nutrients are consumed quickly, and don't sit in the soil very long.


If we wanted to work on hypotheticals, any food left over which hasn't been consumed by the soil bacterium AND is water soluble, that could possible be washed away.

But what is water soluble is a small portion of the nutrients in the soil, so not relevant to my issue really.


@Week4@inCharge I hope you realize I'm not arguing with you here, I'm just trying to explain how this whole concept works.

This isn't a personal theory of mine, its tried, true and proven through generations of organic farming.

This is one of the largest upsides to organic farming.... You don't have to flush, ever, and it is extremely difficult to over feed the plant with organic foods.


If you don't want to take my word for it, start reading through the organic forums. You will see this concept covered over and over again.

This is very interesting, thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. Well, I have lots to learn,. apologies for any theatrics on my part, and I will be diving deeper into this, you've opened my mind on this big time. Thanks.

 

[mbrowne1620]

This is very interesting, thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. Well, I have lots to learn,. apologies for any theatrics on my part, and I will be diving deeper into this, you've opened my mind on this big time. Thanks.

No problem. Organics and outdoor is a while different realm IMO. Everything has pros and cons, but its good to get the knowledge so you can make the best choice for your time and hobby.

Good luck!

 

[outside Dixie]

I would say you are burning them up.I am a outdoor grower here i Never mix indoor and outdoor stuff Sounds like too much stuff. Just water for a week.Start with normal feeding as in no indoor food You are over thinking it. Dixie

 

[weedstoner420]

You've never heard the trope "Tomatoes in"?

Nope, never heard it...what does it mean...?

We feed a very specific diet that FLUSHES out P (sweetness) for K (sourness). We raise EC to 9 before harvesting to suck the excess moisture out.

Interesting claims. At first blush it sounds like some serious "bro-science". Can you explain the biological processes/reasons behind these results?

How do you harvest your tomato? Oh you don't grow them. You eat shit water veg from a Walmart can and know all about tomato.

We grow them in the ground, they turn out decent enough. Certainly better than shit water veg from a Walmart can.

I never actually claimed to know anything about tomatoes, I just mentioned it anecdotally and even qualified my statement by saying "that's not scientific proof." I am planning to grow some in the weed tent this fall/winter, though, I'll let you know how they turn out if you're interested...