Climate in the 21st Century

[cannabineer]

Yep, but reality will come knocking at or knocking down their door before most urban people. I've observed that extreme weather events seem to drive concerns about climate change, so does not being able to get insurance for your house.

A quick look at the Republican base has a lesson about the inefficacy of reality, even at high doses.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

A quick look at the Republican base has a lesson about the inefficacy of reality, even at high doses.

Keep bitch slapping them with reality until they get it, I say! Take the experiment to its logical conclusion!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

A quick look at the Republican base has a lesson about the inefficacy of reality, even at high doses.

I'll wager ya a million magat lives!

 

[cannabineer]

Keep bitch slapping them with reality until they get it, I say! Take the experiment to its logical conclusion!

The key to that, I’m afraid, lies with the big media firms and how they choose to tell which parts of the story.
The foundation of reality therapy is consistent information with as little bias or agenda as possible.

Taken to a more downstream conclusion, the barrier to this being done is the innate tension between fair reporting and capitalism. Fox is the type specimen here: pandering by disinforming pays. They recently took a hit of over 3/4 of a billion dollars, shrugged and are still at their dishonest but popular shenanigan.

Fogdog pointed out that legislating these pirates off the air creates probably grave consequences down the line, notably giving coup-minded fascists a very useful precedent. However, suing them for every serious instance of libel would be the way the nation’s immune system works. They cannot survive an indefinite series of nine-and ten-figure judgments. I await Smartmatic. The corruption scandal seems to be unrelated to the basis of their suit. Murdoch having accepted a rather large penalty to settle without a trial gives Smartmatic some leverage. I hope they don’t settle and force a trial, so that some figurative skeleta get publicly exhumed, a thing Murdoch paid a king’s ransom to deflect.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

The key to that, I’m afraid, lies with the big media firms and how they choose to tell which parts of the story.
The foundation of reality therapy is consistent information with as little bias or agenda as possible.

Taken to a more downstream conclusion, the barrier to this being done is the innate tension between fair reporting and capitalism. Fox is the type specimen here: pandering by disinforming pays. They recently took a hit of over 3/4 of a billion dollars, shrugged and are still at their dishonest but popular shenanigan.

Fogdog pointed out that legislating these pirates off the air creates probably grave consequences down the line, notably giving coup-minded fascists a very useful precedent. However, suing them for every serious instance of libel would be the way the nation’s immune system works. They cannot survive an indefinite series of nine-and ten-figure judgments. I await Smartmatic. The corruption scandal seems to be unrelated to the basis of their suit. Murdoch having accepted a rather large penalty to settle without a trial gives Smartmatic some leverage. I hope they don’t settle and force a trial, so that some figurative skeleta get publicly exhumed, a thing Murdoch paid a king’s ransom to deflect.

Societies and people do better and make better choices when they deal with reality and don't believe bullshit. The better the information we have to work with the better our choices tend to be. Which is why publicly sanctioned lying and disinformation with a broadcast license is so destructive, print is bad enough, but the simple minded don't read much.

 

[Sativied]

I guess the point I was attempting to make is that today in Germany for example, all Germans, Barvarians included have an uneasy feeling about the influx of refugees into their country.
A unholy alliance between Great Britain and Ireland is that deep down inside they both think that Pakistan is sending too many of their sons and daughters over.
France and Italy are rueing the day they invaded North Africa.
It just reminds me of the Irish showing up in Boston and the "Natives" tried very hard to get rid of them, alas to no avail.
The fuckers never would leave, although a few ended up in NYC.
Pesky bastards we are.

The comparisson with Irish coming to Boston may apply to some cases but doesn’t work very well in general. You’re not wrong but painting Europe, France and especially Germany with a too broad brush. France is super interracial, whether it’s black/white or white/arab or w/e mix. The negatives tend to get the focus but that’s far from the complete picture. Ok I’m biased atm cause I spent a few weeks in France last month and it was let’s say refreshing. In NL it’s, excluding youngsters, more segregated. Try to find an Asian/white couple in NL. I swear, I’ve seen it maybe twice in my life. In France, all the women are available for all the guys. ok that came out wrong but you get the point. Aside from all the immigrants, there are people in relationships with people of immigrant background.

I think your comment about ’all Germans’ is most unfair. Yes especially in the east they have an increasing amount of sympathy for the far right, but they are nowhere near a situation where half the voters elect a criminal fascist. Not anything like Poland, Hungary or US. What especially makes Germany special in this context is that in general there are no strong feelings either way. Immigrants color, culture or religion or w/e for most people just isn’t such a hot issue. The current
practical problems that arise are, like housing shortage and overwhelmed systems. Something both immigrants and natives tend to agree on.
Nothing but a bad economy to get the nazis excited:

Germany is the 'sick man of Europe' — and it's causing a shift to the right, top economist says

Germany is once again the sick man of Europe, economist Hans-Werner Sinn told CNBC, and he said the shift could cause a rise in right-wing politics.

www.cnbc.com

Different odds though, less than 1% of the German population was jewish. Now it would be like a bunch of rednecks storming Berlin where half the population has an immigrant background. 1 out of 5 people in Germany is an immigrant (higher then the declining % in US). Add those with immigrant parents and you got 1 out 4. Total Germans with immigrant background will be 1 out of 3 soon. Now distribute those across more muliculti urban areas and east vs west and the most populous city in the EU, Berlin. Then add the part of the population on relationships with non-natives, professional or personal.


Unlike climate change, anti-immigration isn’t mostly a (far-)right issue, it’s pragmatically a real problem atm, even if they were supposedly well-behaved white christians.

And I have to correct myself: the 1:1 relation between climate change denial and far right is unidirectional. If it (a party in europe) denies climate change, it likely on the right side of its own spectrum. But if it’s far right, it doesn’t necessarily deny climate change. Plenty of anti-immigrant politicians not dumb enough to deny the obvious. Not having a two party system makes that possible, else here too denying climate change implies racism, anti-vax and other typical magat traits. If anything, that’s an advantage of a multiparty system, it doesn’t force people to choose a from a linked list of binary options.

 

[Mephisto666]

The comparisson with Irish coming to Boston may apply to some cases but doesn’t work very well in general. You’re not wrong but painting Europe, France and especially Germany with a too broad brush. France is super interracial, whether it’s black/white or white/arab or w/e mix. The negatives tend to get the focus but that’s far from the complete picture. Ok I’m biased atm cause I spent a few weeks in France last month and it was let’s say refreshing. In NL it’s, excluding youngsters, more segregated. Try to find an Asian/white couple in NL. I swear, I’ve seen it maybe twice in my life. In France, all the women are available for all the guys. ok that came out wrong but you get the point. Aside from all the immigrants, there are people in relationships with people of immigrant background.

I think your comment about ’all Germans’ is most unfair. Yes especially in the east they have an increasing amount of sympathy for the far right, but they are nowhere near a situation where half the voters elect a criminal fascist. Not anything like Poland, Hungary or US. What especially makes Germany special in this context is that in general there are no strong feelings either way. Immigrants color, culture or religion or w/e for most people just isn’t such a hot issue. The current
practical problems that arise are, like housing shortage and overwhelmed systems. Something both immigrants and natives tend to agree on.
Nothing but a bad economy to get the nazis excited:

Germany is the 'sick man of Europe' — and it's causing a shift to the right, top economist says

Germany is once again the sick man of Europe, economist Hans-Werner Sinn told CNBC, and he said the shift could cause a rise in right-wing politics.

www.cnbc.com

Different odds though, less than 1% of the German population was jewish. Now it would be like a bunch of rednecks storming Berlin where half the population has an immigrant background. 1 out of 5 people in Germany is an immigrant (higher then the declining % in US). Add those with immigrant parents and you got 1 out 4. Total Germans with immigrant background will be 1 out of 3 soon. Now distribute those across more muliculti urban areas and east vs west and the most populous city in the EU, Berlin. Then add the part of the population on relationships with non-natives, professional or personal.

View attachment 5330648
Unlike climate change, anti-immigration isn’t mostly a (far-)right issue, it’s pragmatically a real problem atm, even if they were supposedly well-behaved white christians.

And I have to correct myself: the 1:1 relation between climate change denial and far right is unidirectional. If it (a party in europe) denies climate change, it likely on the right side of its own spectrum. But if it’s far right, it doesn’t necessarily deny climate change. Plenty of anti-immigrant politicians not dumb enough to deny the obvious. Not having a two party system makes that possible, else here too denying climate change implies racism, anti-vax and other typical magat traits. If anything, that’s an advantage of a multiparty system, it doesn’t force people to choose a from a linked list of binary options.

You have shown a bright light on a subject that admittedly I do not have the direct contact needed to make an informed comment on the subject.
Thanks for the info

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

The comparisson with Irish coming to Boston may apply to some cases but doesn’t work very well in general. You’re not wrong but painting Europe, France and especially Germany with a too broad brush. France is super interracial, whether it’s black/white or white/arab or w/e mix. The negatives tend to get the focus but that’s far from the complete picture. Ok I’m biased atm cause I spent a few weeks in France last month and it was let’s say refreshing. In NL it’s, excluding youngsters, more segregated. Try to find an Asian/white couple in NL. I swear, I’ve seen it maybe twice in my life. In France, all the women are available for all the guys. ok that came out wrong but you get the point. Aside from all the immigrants, there are people in relationships with people of immigrant background.

I think your comment about ’all Germans’ is most unfair. Yes especially in the east they have an increasing amount of sympathy for the far right, but they are nowhere near a situation where half the voters elect a criminal fascist. Not anything like Poland, Hungary or US. What especially makes Germany special in this context is that in general there are no strong feelings either way. Immigrants color, culture or religion or w/e for most people just isn’t such a hot issue. The current
practical problems that arise are, like housing shortage and overwhelmed systems. Something both immigrants and natives tend to agree on.
Nothing but a bad economy to get the nazis excited:

Germany is the 'sick man of Europe' — and it's causing a shift to the right, top economist says

Germany is once again the sick man of Europe, economist Hans-Werner Sinn told CNBC, and he said the shift could cause a rise in right-wing politics.

www.cnbc.com

Different odds though, less than 1% of the German population was jewish. Now it would be like a bunch of rednecks storming Berlin where half the population has an immigrant background. 1 out of 5 people in Germany is an immigrant (higher then the declining % in US). Add those with immigrant parents and you got 1 out 4. Total Germans with immigrant background will be 1 out of 3 soon. Now distribute those across more muliculti urban areas and east vs west and the most populous city in the EU, Berlin. Then add the part of the population on relationships with non-natives, professional or personal.

View attachment 5330648
Unlike climate change, anti-immigration isn’t mostly a (far-)right issue, it’s pragmatically a real problem atm, even if they were supposedly well-behaved white christians.

And I have to correct myself: the 1:1 relation between climate change denial and far right is unidirectional. If it (a party in europe) denies climate change, it likely on the right side of its own spectrum. But if it’s far right, it doesn’t necessarily deny climate change. Plenty of anti-immigrant politicians not dumb enough to deny the obvious. Not having a two party system makes that possible, else here too denying climate change implies racism, anti-vax and other typical magat traits. If anything, that’s an advantage of a multiparty system, it doesn’t force people to choose a from a linked list of binary options.

Multiculturalism goes with technology and globalization, the EU is all about multiculturalism, in America there is a melting pot expectation and that is still true, but these days people arrive by plane and go back home for visits, they have the internet and a stronger connection with folks back home, they don't want to assimilate as previous generations have done, but maintain their cultural identity and technology helps them to do this. This is likely to exacerbate reactionary political forces in the country, especially if language and cultural identity are threatened, religion too, but that is becoming less of a factor over time. Once numbers of visible minorities reach a certain threshold, reactionary forces and bigots react, the more different, the lower the threshold and the more violet the reaction.

A lot of what is happening in Europe was the result of Bush's war in Iraq and subsequent political unraveling in the middle east, the Arab spring etc. That and trouble in Syria with refugees flooding Europe caused a reaction and move to the right. Then there all the people migrating from Africa through these places headed for Europe, the internet and TV have shown them where the good life is to be found.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

How to fight climate change with parking lots

 

[Jylhavuori]

Just a few minor situations forming. For example AMOC abruptions, global soil degradation, biodiversity loss, water scarcity; brine, acidification.

For example..is it possible to just not pump oil? Soo many byproducts are being created that are fundamental compounds for whatever we use. Like we would leave the gasoline unused..really..?

Here we are "yabbing" about politics (I don't mean to insult anyone). Well it's "all" we have besides weeping and warring at this point.

 

[Sativied]

For example..is it possible to just not pump oil? Soo many byproducts are being created that are fundamental compounds for whatever we use. Like we would leave the gasoline unused..really..?

Leaving gasoline entirely unused and not pumping any oil is not a goal on its own nor a requirement to curb climate change. We need to reduce emissions, nobody except people who use false dilemmas suggested we can't use single a drop of oil ever again.

Let me put it differently, since we indeed cannot stop using oil entirely, does that mean we should not try and replace it with alternatives as much as we can?

Reminds me of the main argument farmers in NL have "If all farmers are gone there will be no food". While that is true by itself, nobody suggests to remove all farmers, just need to reduce the amount of cattle and emission.

 

[Jylhavuori]

Let me put it differently, since we indeed cannot stop using oil entirely, does that mean we should not try and replace it with alternatives as much as we can?

Obviously we should and in some amount shall too.
It would be possible with corruption eradicated which in turn would happen only if humankind somehow could also get rid of all the problematic culturally inherited and behavioural models differing inside each nation etc..
But firstly, segregation would have to be dissolved as it is one of the main creating factors of the whole entropicality of the problem (this leads to many unsolvable issues with big populations). At this point someone with power and intelligence, or a group of these people, will mostly make me prepare a seedbank to be honest.

 

[Jylhavuori]

Or am I missing the guideline book on how to make homo sapiens a reasonable species in time?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Or am I missing the guideline book on how to make homo sapiens a reasonable species in time?

If you look back in the thread, you'll see I've posted a lot on the emerging green technologies and ways out of the hole we are in, a lot about policy too and the information people need to make political decisions and those will become increasingly important. I wanted the thread to have some hope and cover the folks doing something about it, not just the doom prophets whining and stories about damaging artwork. Solar is the cheapest form of power generation even pretty far north and the battery factories are going up and will be producing a variety of batteries with different chemistries that are rapidly improving.

Most here accept the facts about climate change, I'm presenting other people's solutions, both policy and technological. We are in the midst of an energy revolution, have a look through the posts on the thread. I dunno if it is too late to regain balance in our climate, we must heed the counsel of experts and accept the evidence where it is solid, but we must also try to do something about it too and we are. Extreme weather events will drive change, the more extreme, the more rapid the change will be. If the rivers in Europe dry up in a summer drought, it will get their attention, likewise with farmers and rural people, or they will be driven from the land and are likely to be any way. Not getting house insurance is something else that gets people's attention.

 

[Jylhavuori]

If you look back in the thread, you'll see I've posted a lot on the emerging green technologies and ways out of the hole we are in, a lot about policy too and the information people need to make political decisions and those will become increasingly important. I wanted the thread to have some hope and cover the folks doing something about it, not just the doom prophets whining and stories about damaging artwork. Solar is the cheapest form of power generation even pretty far north and the battery factories are going up and will be producing a variety of batteries with different chemistries that are rapidly improving.

Most here accept the facts about climate change, I'm presenting other people's solutions, both policy and technological. We are in the midst of an energy revolution, have a look through the posts on the thread. I dunno if it is too late to regain balance in our climate, we must heed the counsel of experts and accept the evidence where it is solid, but we must also try to do something about it too and we are. Extreme weather events will drive change, the more extreme, the more rapid the change will be. If the rivers in Europe dry up in a summer drought, it will get their attention, likewise with farmers and rural people, or they will be driven from the land and are likely to be any way. Not getting house insurance is something else that gets people's attention.

I'm quite updated on the technology too, and there are multiple solutions already as we know. They say they're "not economically viable" or that we are simply too many. I know my output is doomish in this thread it's just analytically based conclusions with some effort.

I'm hopeful of a turning point by drought or similar affects but frankly all my math is agaist it; so many dire situations are creating risks of exoduses and other relatively daunting scenarios...mediterranian Asia with evergrowing food crises for example.

I'm not up to blaming - everybody has some kind of an agenda going, biased or not. Great to see topics and conversation evolving though, it gives much of the needed tolerance for everyone to be heard. It's a step, small one but a step.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I'm quite updated on the technology too, and there are multiple solutions already as we know. They say they're "not economically viable" or that we are simply too many. I know my output is doomish in this thread it's just analytically based conclusions with some effort.

I'm hopeful of a turning point by drought or similar affects but frankly all my math is agaist it; so many dire situations are creating risks of exoduses and other relatively daunting scenarios...mediterranian Asia with evergrowing food crises for example.

I'm not up to blaming - everybody has some kind of an agenda going, biased or not. Great to see topics and conversation evolving though, it gives much of the needed tolerance for everyone to be heard. It's a step, small one but a step.

The longest journey begins with a single step.

 

[Jylhavuori]

The longest journey begins with a single step.

Indeed. Though sometimes it's a cell that learns to move. Amounting measures and weaving the methods is the best we ever could.

I say we have succeeded at cognition and that there isn't some hidden archetype of evil existing. But it will not repair social dysfunctionality nor disparity already made, some of it already deep in our genome. Using a "we"- format is troublesome when facing these issues since human species is not formed properly for that because its intelligence/communication. Everyone is separate matter and that is a good fact to base all thinking relating misformed ideologies of a global grouptype/-action.

 

[Jylhavuori]

Hippokrates would not have liked me

 

[cannabineer]

Just a few minor situations forming. For example AMOC abruptions, global soil degradation, biodiversity loss, water scarcity; brine, acidification.

For example..is it possible to just not pump oil? Soo many byproducts are being created that are fundamental compounds for whatever we use. Like we would leave the gasoline unused..really..?

Here we are "yabbing" about politics (I don't mean to insult anyone). Well it's "all" we have besides weeping and warring at this point.

even if we stopped using it as fuel (which would end air transport and reduce shipping to stuff that will endure sixty days under sail) our economies depend on it far too much for plastics, medicine etc.

In a sense it would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Those plastic outdoor chairs would need to be made of wood. And we’re still felling trees at unsustainable levels.

 

[Jylhavuori]

even if we stopped using it as fuel (which would end air transport and reduce shipping to stuff that will endure sixty days under sail) our economies depend on it far too much for plastics, medicine etc.

In a sense it would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Those plastic outdoor chairs would need to be made of wood. And we’re still felling trees at unsustainable levels.

What I meant was that as we would have to refine the oil anyways...who would guard/discard/deposit all the leftover gasoline? Make coke from it?
That was the main wonder, maybe emojis would've helped