Changed my driver to double the power but light doesn’t seem any brighter?

[curious2garden]

I do as well.

I seriously considered them instead of a Diablo. But I wanted that red spike on the X or that's exactly what I'd be running. I've been eyeing this:

HLG Greenhouse Pro HE HV

is a commercial Indoor Horticulture LED grow light designed for greenhouse facilities, that features our integrated reflectors shown to improve the photon delivery to the canopy. This lamp has Full Spectrum White and Deep Red LED’s, with an efficacy of 3.3 µmol/joule.

horticulturelightinggroup.com

 

[Rocket Soul]

What hanging height do you manage? Running them at full power.
What foes ramp up look like, what part of the grow are you able to run full power?

 

[KitnerPush]

What I'm saying is you can run them as hard as you want if you don't value lifespan or efficiency.

In the case of Quantum Boards vs LED count, it really has nothing to do with the number of LEDs – they aren't the limiting factor in the QB648 – and everything to do with the size of the panels and how much heat the PCB/heatsink can dissipate.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. When LEDs get hot, they lose efficiency and eventually burn out. If you want to know who much current to run through them, follow the recommended guidelines or ask the maufacturer or just go ahead and do what you want and see what happens. You might get lucky. Or not.

It is the heat that the current generates that damages LEDs, not the current itself (strictly speaking), so everything relies on thermal management.

Good info! Thanks!

 

[Rocket Soul]

I seriously considered them instead of a Diablo. But I wanted that red spike on the X or that's exactly what I'd be running. I've been eyeing this:

HLG Greenhouse Pro HE HV

is a commercial Indoor Horticulture LED grow light designed for greenhouse facilities, that features our integrated reflectors shown to improve the photon delivery to the canopy. This lamp has Full Spectrum White and Deep Red LED’s, with an efficacy of 3.3 µmol/joule.

horticulturelightinggroup.com

I dont think this is a stand alone growlight, its to be used in green houses. I wouldnt get it for indoor grow as i believe its supposed to be used in conjunction with sunlight. Ask hlg to make sure. The spectrum sure fits the bill; almost only red and blue; its like blurple

 

[KitnerPush]

That HLG Greenhouse is 1.5m or 59in long. Would probably work really good in arrays over 59in x 59in trays, hung high.

Also, I think there are some strains, vegetables etc. which are bred to take to that spectrum more.

 

[Prawn Connery]

I dont think this is a stand alone growlight, its to be used in green houses. I wouldnt get it for indoor grow as i believe its supposed to be used in conjunction with sunlight. Ask hlg to make sure. The spectrum sure fits the bill; almost only red and blue; its like blurple

I would say you're right. You could use it as a standalone, but sunlight already has a lot of green and far red light (and UV, though glass blocks most of the UVB), so for supplmental light it makes sense to run the most efficient spectrum with 660nm monos and (probably) 5000K whites.

 

[KitnerPush]

I still don't understand how they get away with a 2.3mm flat plate heat sink for that light... The HLG350Diablo that is ? Any ideas?

 

[StoneDHedgE]

I still don't understand how they get away with a 2.3mm flat plate heat sink for that light... The HLG350Diablo that is ? Any ideas?

 

[StoneDHedgE]

A more efficient light. Means less energy lost as heat.

 

[KitnerPush]

A more efficient light. Means less energy lost as heat.

Yes, I get that, but what's the catch? Less heat due to less voltage required by each diode? Say for whites, the high bin diode is 2.6-2.65v on the low side, and low bin voltage is 2.8v on the high side.

So for a qb648 which has 36 circuits of 18 white diodes (648 18x2.6v is 46.8 vs 18x2.75v 49.5v. The current remains the same, but requires less voltage to deliver the current? Is that right?

 

[StoneDHedgE]

Yes, I get that, but what's the catch? Less heat due to less voltage required by each diode? Say for whites, the high bin diode is 2.6-2.65v on the low side, and low bin voltage is 2.8v on the high side.

So for a qb648 which has 36 circuits of 18 white diodes (648 18x2.6v is 46.8 vs 18x2.75v 49.5v. The current remains the same, but requires less voltage to deliver the current? Is that right?

Voltage has nothing to do with it. More efficient diodes makes more light and less heat than a less efficient one at the same load. Same watts...volts...amps.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Voltage has nothing to do with it. More efficient diodes makes more light and less heat than a less efficient one at the same load. Same watts...volts...amps.

Voltage has everything to do with it. absolute top bins have highest flux bin and lowest voltage bin; lowest power for maximum output. But you will also have a top flux bin; same amount light for a little more power.

 

[StoneDHedgE]

Nope. Efficiency is power in vs power out. A 5 watt diode is a 5 watt diode. Regardless of voltage.

Same amount light for a little more power. Is an inferior diode. Same light less power is superior.

My background is in Electronicics/Electrical Engineering. 5 Decades.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Nope. Efficiency is power in vs power out. A 5 watt diode is a 5 watt diode. Regardless of voltage.

Same amount light for a little more power. Is an inferior diode. Same light less power is superior.

My background is in Electronicics/Electrical Engineering. 5 Decades.

I know and i think were talking past each other saying the same thing:
Power in to the diode is determined by voltage by current: if the voltage of the diode is lower, while the flux bin, which is measured in absolute output, is the same top flux bin: then less power in for the same output, or higher efficiency. As you say same light less power is superior.

The absolute top bin diode is the one with highest flux bin and the lowest voltage bin, which is the diode that gives max light for least output.

 

[SaHt420]

You need to try dt series deutsch connectors. We use them at work for a watertight removable connection.
They are rated to 13a and the pins are sturdy. The crimping tool is alittle expensive.

Hey it’s been a while but I figure you the best guy to ask lmao. I. Never got the c2800 but I plan to get a third Diablo what drive you think I should run if two in series get 320w

 

[SaHt420]

I gues a quick search answered my question.
should use hlg-480h-c2800

 

[Prawn Connery]

A more efficient light. Means less energy lost as heat.

This is true. Except in practice, there is not a huge difference in efficiency between top-tier lights so heatsink demands don't change that much. The main reason HLG gets away with it is surface area of the mounting plate. They use quite a large aluminium plate to mount the LED panels to. The side reflectors add to the surface area, acting like heat fins.

I never liked the idea of mounting the driver to the same heatsink, but if you can mount it on brackets where it doesn't come in contact with the main heatsink, then that is better. Heatsinks work both ways: they remove heat from LEDs but they also add heat from drivers.

What @Rocket Soul was trying to explain – because you're both on the same page – is that lower Vf bins can be more efficient, which means they produce less heat.

But again, in reality, the lowest Vf bins are not always the most efficient, as it is entirely dependent on what Flux bin they fall into. There are very, very few LEDs that are both low Vf and high flux. In theory, these would be the most efficient, but in reality, the lower Vf bins also tend to be the lower Flux bins, which means that LEDs within the same family mostly run at similar efficiencies with a few outliers in the higher and lower efficiency range. If you have access to these high efficiency bins (because they are only a fraction of the production total), then you can build a more efficient LED panel.

But even then, there is an argument for running a bigger heatsink, as better heatsinking leads to better LED efficiency.

 

[Prawn Connery]

I gues a quick search answered my question.
should use hlg-480h-c2800

That will work, but you will need decent heat-sinking as 3x QB648 panels will run hot at ~160W each.

Here's another way of solving the same problem:

320W driver divided by 2 panels = 160W x 3 panels = 480W for the same current

In theory, the 480W driver will deliver exactly the same amount of power to 3 panels as a 320W driver to 2. But you will need 50% more heatsinking.

 

[SaHt420]

Or should I run a hlg-480h-c3500!!!!

That will work, but you will need decent heat-sinking as 3x QB648 panels will run hot at ~160W each.

Here's another way of solving the same problem:

320W driver divided by 2 panels = 160W x 3 panels = 480W for the same current

In theory, the 480W driver will deliver exactly the same amount of power to 3 panels as a 320W driver to 2. But you will need 50% more heatsinking.

so you think 400 would be more realistic with the premade three board slate Heatsink my hlg?

 

[Boatguy]

That will work, but you will need decent heat-sinking as 3x QB648 panels will run hot at ~160W each.

Here's another way of solving the same problem:

320W driver divided by 2 panels = 160W x 3 panels = 480W for the same current

In theory, the 480W driver will deliver exactly the same amount of power to 3 panels as a 320W driver to 2. But you will need 50% more heatsinking.

I run mine at 160w per board, each with a single slate heatsink and they dont get super hot... I did use an adhesive thermal substrate between the boards and sinks, and keep good circulation going in there..
Biggest issue with running them that high is the distance they need to be kept from the plants