Most Americans would disagree.
Joe Biden strong leader U.S. 2023 | Statista
As of October 2023, the majority of surveyed adults in the U.S.
www.statista.com
Examples of Democratic Party leadership
- Thread starter Fogdog
- Start date
www.statista.com
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The only polls that matter are election polls.Most Americans would disagree.
Joe Biden strong leader U.S. 2023 | Statista
As of October 2023, the majority of surveyed adults in the U.S.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
It's an ad not a poll and elections are the only polls that count. Lots of Americans think Trump is fit for office, but he an emotionally and socially retarded criminal psychopath and it so painfully obvious, so much for their judgement.Most Americans would disagree.
Joe Biden strong leader U.S. 2023 | Statista
As of October 2023, the majority of surveyed adults in the U.S.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Also, an example of big money jumping ship on the GOP, survival is more important than tax cuts, at least for some of them! Money follows power and if the democrats pull off a hattrick next November, then they will be awash in money and temptation.
Most of the GOP's potential donations are going to Trump and his legal defense and he will continue to suck money from his base of suckers any way he can, the republicans won't get a cent for the election.
Most of the GOP's potential donations are going to Trump and his legal defense and he will continue to suck money from his base of suckers any way he can, the republicans won't get a cent for the election.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Remember when we all had fun and laughs pulling wings off trolls?
Those were the days….
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Most Americans believe 1/3 is less than 1/4, so, there’s that.Most Americans would disagree.
Joe Biden strong leader U.S. 2023 | Statista
As of October 2023, the majority of surveyed adults in the U.S.
compassionateExotic
Well-Known Member
I don’t care if chances are against Biden (thing is democrats won last 3 elections hehe via population ), no way I’m voting anything but democrat and proudly biden
the gop shouldn’t even be part of our government, they have by actions done nothing but be a terrorist to democracy but also aid extremism and wrong, just plain wrong actions and views
the gop shouldn’t even be part of our government, they have by actions done nothing but be a terrorist to democracy but also aid extremism and wrong, just plain wrong actions and views
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I still hold hope that a small coalition of moderates shakes itself awake and works with the Democrats to start governing and perhaps to start disabling the maga contingent. Even half a dozen old-school Republicans working together could hold the sort of amplified power that Manchin and Sinema used to f with the Senate.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
If they could survive Trump's attacks, a deluge of death threats and their primaries, their primaries being the least of their worries, their safety and that of their family being the most pressing issue. This is what fascism looks like, threats of violence and terrorism now become part of the political equation, whereas they never were before.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
In a sense, the threats are not the worst thing. The assassinations and attempts since Lincoln were not preceded by threats.
P01135809’s thrashing bluster has much less traction than it had even months ago. Without the cheerleader, the overthrow caucus should find itself not to have the leverage it did, right til Pedobear did the predictable and stupid thing. I rate the chance of a maga-approved Speaker emerging from this mess at near zero.
Those Republicans will simply need to cowboy up and sell doing the right thing to their constituents, the moderate element of whom is still there. It’s just been unheard under the chaotic racket made by the red hats.
As for the primaries, when the voters are faced with electing a Rino vs a Demonrat, I think they’ll grudgingly vote pachyderm. They might like the outcome, and the detoxification from bs totalibertarianism can get under way.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I'm wondering what the impact on the republicans will be when Trump is: 1) disqualified and 2) locked up and silenced. What will his supporters do, if he doesn't tell them what to think and who to attack. He is likely to be disqualified in December, if he is, and jailed upon conviction in May of 24 by Chutkan, if she doesn't jail him before then.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Whomever the maga base choose as their standard-bearers will doubtless come under the scrutiny of the DOJ. Jones and Bannon might find themselves more than just sued.
More interesting imo is the future of the GOP. This could go two ways.
The party might continue to triple down on grievance politics, culture war, and fascist actions. In that instance (unless they stage another coup that works this time) they’ll lose at the national polls and slowly collapse inward. R voters will tire of a losing strategy and look to more moderate candidates, or follow the radicals into irrelevance.
Or enough moderates might emerge and take key positions in the legislature and the party leadership, and begin closing doors on the die-hard freedomers.
tl;dr:
Barring a successful insurrection, the maga storm surge is at crest and will begin to drain back.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
The republican party is too important a political institution in binary America that I doubt it will be left in the control of lunatics and losers for too long. There is very big money that needs a home and a chance at power in the two-party system, the brand might be trashed and the base poisoned, but the institution remains and has a lot of value. The party is run by grifters who do the bidding of money and they will find a way to keep the white trash away because until they do, they won't have what they want, control of the elephant.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I think the Republican Party has permanently and irretrievably lost its way and strayed into it a fantasy land fabricated and sold to them by a few wealthy people and a host of toadies, dominionists, white patriarchs, hard core racists and white nationalists. They have severely corrupted our democratic institutions and are intent on ending democracy as we knew it by any means they find necessary. Fascism has taken hold in this country and we will experience random acts of violence for years to come because they won't accept the will of the majority who seek to pursue their happiness on their own terms and not the one prescribed by cultists in the MAGA GOP.
I don't think the GOP is necessary to maintain a binary American democracy. There are plenty of factions in the Democratic Party who can provide the necessary balance and healthy debate that a pro-democracy GOP once provided. The real risk is that once the threat of fascism recedes, the Democratic Party will fracture and give the rump of the once powerful MAGA GOP another chance at seizing power.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
The republican party is entrenched by law, registration and primaries in many states and the system needs to be opened up somehow. Other parties have gone extinct in America and others have taken their place, but not since the primary system came into play and the two-party duopoly became entrenched in the second half of the 20th century. It was supposed to give the grass roots a voice, but they never figured on a crazy voice or a treasonous one and they never figured on fascism taking over. Eventually it led to the current polarization, but the extremism is only on the right, the minority losing side and deep down they know it.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
The Democrats in the legislature have shown a wonderful willingness to pull together and present a united front against the counterrepublicans.
I think that as long as the danger you describe persists, they will continue to do so. The current Democratic caucus is a mixed bag of centrists, Johnson-era liberals and full-on social democrats, with AOC bearing the standard for our moderate left.
While these internal factions have different approaches to best governance, and will argue when the underlying state of things permits, their commitment to coalition in the face of a clear and present danger is heartening to me.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
In a two-party duopoly it is just a matter of time until the republicans gain power again, assuming they lose it to begin with. Because of the nature of the primary system, change will be difficult, it will be hard to "uplift" these people and they must be driven from the party "somehow". I figure that somehow will be up to some clever "consultant" working for wealthy people who will devise a nefarious plan. Perhaps they can expel people from the party and even voting in the primary process as a republican, since it is a private club that nobody seems to own. Charge a membership fee to be a party member and vote in primaries etc. They need a union buster type operating in secret with a big bag full of dirty tricks and cash to rid the party of lunatics and bigots, meanwhile they need to attract sane people who believe in the constitution and rule of law.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
How does the Republican Party reform itself into an political party that runs on ideas instead of ideology? They were losing support among the youth of this nation before Trump became a political reality. He and his MAGA have done nothing to attract them. MAGA are the ones who will run the GOP for as long as anybody can imagine. Run it into the ground, that is.
Where are the GOP conservative visionaries who can first defeat MAGA, wrest control of the party away from MAGA leaders and then pivot to convince the emergent politically active millennial population to follow them instead of leaders like AOC, Hakeem Jeffries, Katherine Clark, and Pete Aguilar? I don't think they exist. The ones who have the gravitas are retiring. MAGA leaders who are young enough to last into the next decades are simply recycling Trump voters. They will persist as long as boomers can vote but their numbers are already a minority in the US and dwindling.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
They will need to lose for a while before the process begins, but it will be top-down change, not bottom up because there is no bottom. If the republican party wasn't such an important institution and legally entrenched in the American political system, it wouldn't be of such of immense value to powerful people. They can't control the base, Trump demonstrated that it can be stolen right out from under them, so these powerful people will need to get rid of them somehow. I would look for attacks on the primary system in the GOP as one way, back to conventions and party bosses perhaps or even a membership fee slipped in to be a party member and vote in their primaries.
In Canada you need to pay a nominal fee to join a political party and have a voice in its leadership and parties can disqualify candidates who the local party riding selects. Primaries in America are a recent thing and not really part of the original system and political parties are not covered much in law. It is an area in American politics that is subject to change and there are alternatives.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
One thing to consider is there isn't one republican party, there is the RNC or federal party and 50 state parties and systems of elections. If factionalism and a schism happen to the GOP it will start with divergent state parties. Some parties will go crazier, especially in the south and those purple areas will grow more moderate. However, the democrats would be taxing the shit out of the rich and regulating their asses for a long time if they gain power and start addressing social problems like wealth imbalance. The rich greedy ones will need a political home and can afford to "renovate" a burned-out party house since it's the only house available right now, naturally such work begins with demolition.