Can Tent Plants Be TOO Bushy/Leafy? Trim Time?

bigboerboel

Well-Known Member
Sorry Guys, I'm an outdoor master, but still learning on this first tent grow. Outdoor plants stretch and I'm clueless here.

Do I need to thin these? 2 weeks since transplant into 7 gal in FFOF. I topped 5 days ago and the side branched are having trouble breaking through. Its deforming the new offshoot tops.

Thanks for the help.
 

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pegboy

Well-Known Member
The plants look very nice and healthy. I would prefer some strategic pruning over any type of defoliation. I would however say I'm definitely in the minority as far as this goes though. I just don't think stripping plants is all that necesarry for smaller grows. The plants look great!!
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
They're growing very nicely. If you remove leaves, you will reduce the plants ability to make food which will result in reduced growth and, therefore, yield.

I suspect that you've given them a lot of light and/or you're using a light that has a lot of blue in it. The comment re. the high light levels is because some of the leaves are horizontal and almost "praying", though that's only the plant in the back right. The comment about blue photons is because the plants are compact and bushy. All in all, looking really good.

Having said that, how are you lighting them and how are you measuring your light levels?

I suspect that you can significantly increase light levels (plants that size should be very close to the light saturation point (800-1000µmols in cannabis) and would recommend that you do that because, unless there's another limiting factor, more light => a better quality crop as well as a larger crop.
 

bigboerboel

Well-Known Member
They're growing very nicely. If you remove leaves, you will reduce the plants ability to make food which will result in reduced growth and, therefore, yield.

I suspect that you've given them a lot of light and/or you're using a light that has a lot of blue in it. The comment re. the high light levels is because some of the leaves are horizontal and almost "praying", though that's only the plant in the back right. The comment about blue photons is because the plants are compact and bushy. All in all, looking really good.

Having said that, how are you lighting them and how are you measuring your light levels?

I suspect that you can significantly increase light levels (plants that size should be very close to the light saturation point (800-1000µmols in cannabis) and would recommend that you do that because, unless there's another limiting factor, more light => a better quality crop as well as a larger crop.
Thanks for the detailed response Delps8.

I'm using a Infisice Quantum PAR meter. The current PAR reading is 425-430 at the top of the plants. The lights are two (2) HLG 350 Diablo's, placed 34" above the plants turned to about 50% available wattage, or the 5th of 9 positions. My temps are 65-67 lights out and 71-77 on. I'm trying to keep the humidity between 50-60%, but it can drop to 40% occasionally.

Would you lower the lights, turn up the wattage, or just let the plants grow into the light?
 

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DancesWithWeeds

Well-Known Member
Sorry Guys, I'm an outdoor master, but still learning on this first tent grow. Outdoor plants stretch and I'm clueless here.

Do I need to thin these? 2 weeks since transplant into 7 gal in FFOF. I topped 5 days ago and the side branched are having trouble breaking through. Its deforming the new offshoot tops.

Thanks for the help.
Your plants look nice. I'm an outdoor grower, too. Keep posting your grow. I'd like to see how other outdoors growers do moving in. I'm not even growing this winter. Ms DWW moved her flowers into the grow room for the winter, bugs and all.

I don't think trimming or defoliating on small plants is a good idea. The plants need those leafs to build energy.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the detailed response Delps8.

I'm using a Infisice Quantum PAR meter. The current PAR reading is 425-430 at the top of the plants. The lights are two (2) HLG 350 Diablo's, placed 34" above the plants turned to about 50% available wattage, or the 5th of 9 positions. My temps are 65-67 lights out and 71-77 on. I'm trying to keep the humidity between 50-60%, but it can drop to 40% occasionally.

Would you lower the lights, turn up the wattage, or just let the plants grow into the light?
Good info, thank you. And knowing the spectrum of the HLG helps a lot.

That's a great environment. Good to see that you're using a PAR meter, though that meter could be reading a bit low. If you have/can get use of iOS phone, download a copy of "Clear Sky Calculator". That's an app that Apogee has released that will allow you to calibrate any PAR meter. Some of the low cost PAR meters on Amazon use a gallium arsenide sensor that doesn't read light above 660nm. If that's the case with your meter, the readings could be low because, based on the spectrum, the Diablo puts out light above 660nm.

I'm surprised your light level is only 425+µmols-I was expecting that your were up in the 600+ range with plants of that shape but the Diablo has a good amount of blue in its spectrum and blue is what keeps plants short and encourages them to produce lots of stems and leaves.

My advice, and I practice what I preach (and I'm the first to admit I will "Preach it!"), is to get your plants to the light saturation point as soon as you can. The light saturation point ("LSP") in cannabis is 800-1000µmols. With a high quality grow, you will be able to ramp up very quickly - no reason not to jump in quickly.

HLG's tend to have a hot spot but with 2 of them, you're probably getting a pretty good pattern. Have you mapped out your readings? It would be very helpful for you to take readings across the canopy because that data can drive your decision about hang height vs dimmer setting. The goal would be to have all of your canopy at 800-1000µmols but we know that's really hard to do. Canopies aren't flat and lights do not put out consistent light from center to corner so that's where sampling the canopy comes in.

I grow 1 plant in a 2'x 4' and as the plant matures, I sample more areas on the plant. The 10 samples below are from an auto in week 6 of flower and it's in pretty good shape. The standard deviation for the canopy is only 40µmol or a DLI of 3 but we know they're not all like that.

If you create a table like this in Excel, you should be able to find the right combo of hang height and dimmer to get you where you want to be.

1701055256763.png
 

bigboerboel

Well-Known Member
I guess it's time for me to jump ship. I have a Samsung Galaxy S10+. Everybody is giving me $#it for not moving to iOS (Damned KoolAid drinkers). I guess "Clear Sky Calculater" is enough to push me over. I'm proficient in Excell. Maybe I'll just invest in a quality PAR meter and map out the tent this week.

DancesWithWeeds, we've communicated in the Outdoor forum before. If you have space, try the indoor grow. It's super fun, and keeping my busy brain busy in retirement. Plus, no budworms!
 

Fallguy111

Well-Known Member
At this point I like to trim the bottom 1/3 and the lower nodes. And start training to let the tops fill in.
 

Fallguy111

Well-Known Member
It was once suggested to me to remove the bottom 2 nodes on each branch, so that’s what I do. I like to keep leaves unless they’re overlapping or blocking.
 

bigboerboel

Well-Known Member
Lift the light, turn on more red leds, raise the temp, these things will encourage stem elongation.
Its 2 HLG 350 Diablos mounted side-by-side. They're full spectrum, with no ability to turn down blue or turn red up. I guess I could raise the lights, but that's the same as lowering the par rating by turning them down. I can raise them temps
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
44 years of outdoor growing and I've never had this compaction issue.

Should I flip these to 12/12 now? I have plenty of vertical room (96"), but its only a 4x4.

One girl is praying like Mother Theresa. One is drowning in leaves.
Yes i'd flip them, if they're seed they'll take a bit longer to start flowering however as soon as its sexualy mature it'll start.
.
Another I've got going just now.
20231128_180252.jpg20231128_180235.jpg
Flipped at 5 days from seed.
 
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