Help me pick my 4x4 light! $350 to spend

[shotnva777]

So, as many know, I grabbed up a 4x4 tent with all the goodies. I have a couple of 200w QB's I'm running in it now, from my previous smaller setup, just to get things going. But it's time, I would like to order a permanent light for it on Friday. I already have a 600w MH hood, that ive converted to a 630W CMH (×2 315w CMH) in the tent now, that hasn't been used yet, due to needing new bulbs. So it just sits high in the tent, just waiting as a backup or an addition during heavy flowering. It's also my exhaust duct! Haha!

Anyways, Airflow isn't an issue, as I have the 6" AC Infinity inline duct fan wide open, as an exhaust. I also have an inlet 6" duct fan, to blow cold air in, incase temps go out of my perimeters on the Inkbird. Even bought a humidifier the other day, to hook to the Inkbird humidity controller. I'm going all out this time!!

So.... The question is this! What light should I get?! My budget is about $300-350 max and I'm not buying anything under 500w. I'm really wanting a bar style light, as they just have so much better light uniformity and are pretty customizable it seems - not to mention the passive cooling HAS to work better, with all the diodes not on a single piece of aluminum. Here's the 3 options I've narrowed it down to, I'd like some input if possible...

- A used Fluence Spydr 2i 631w for $350 shipped to my door. Problem is I'm not 100% sure how long the said light has been used. The friend actually said he would send me two of them as a Christmas Gift. Though I don't really have a use for another used light atm lol... (and I'm not sure if he was being serious). If he did indeed send one, I would have backup parts or could quite possibly sell it and make my money back. I'm just worried about how they were used....


- A brand neq Phlizon PH-B8 640w for $350 shipped to my door. This I know is brand new and the company will stand behind it for some time. But it's obviously not near as good as a light as the Fluence. Atleast not new price wise.


- RDJ Bouns 720w for $340 shipped to my door. Now I've never heard of them and I'm kinda tired of these Chinese knockoffs and not getting the efficiency I really want. Anyone heard of them? They claim a Sosen Driver and using LM281B diodes. But $350 is a lot to me, so im taking this slow.


- And last but not least, two brand new Growstar LZB4000 QB's - giving me 800w, but not the bar style im looking for. I can get BOTH for $160, shipped to my door (I actually have a LZB2000 in my tent now and it's a pretty nice light). They're Chinese made but have verified Phillips Diodes and Meanwell driver. The only reason I like this idea is because of the flexibility of being able to raise one side of the light and obviously the massive price difference - I would spend less than half of the $ - but I have nothing else i need for my tent other than a good light.


Opinions?!

 

[IndooorGardnerOhio]

Two brand new Growstar LZB4000 QB's is how i would go

 

[shotnva777]

Two brand new Growstar LZB4000 QB's is how i would go

Ya think??? I was really thinking about going that way, just for the simple fact of flexibility and price. I could literally buy 6 and still spend the same amount and have about 1200w lol. They'd all fit too! As the 400w board is only 12"x19"

 

[IndooorGardnerOhio]

Ya think??? I was really thinking about going that way, just for the simple fact of flexibility and price. I could literally buy 6 and still spend the same amount and have about 1200w lol. They'd all fit too! As the 400w board is only 12"x19"

Honestly if you are on that tight of a budget, yes. Are they Ideal and best lights you can get no, but you can work with them while saving up for something better. Plus that option gives you the most wattage.

 

[shnkrmn]

The coupon price on this right now is compelling. I bought it for 400, have flowered with it, very nice light. I also happen to have that Phlizon you are.looking at, it's okay but runs hot and you can't relocate the driver outside the tent. And that price is too high anyway, even if it fits your budget.

VIPARSPECTRA 2023 KS5000 LED Grow Light 500W with Samsung LM301H Osram Diodes 6 Bars Grow Light, 4x4ft Coverage Full Spectrum Uniform PPFD Dimmable Daisy Chain Commercial Grow Lamp for Indoor Plants https://a.co/d/7dW55Nv

I don't recommend those panels at all.

 

[tstick]

Yeah Viparspectra is making some KILLER lights! I just bought my second XS-1500 Pro for ~$75,

If you want light coverage, then just get four of them!

 

[coreywebster]

Well from the point of view you already have 400w of QB , then just adding some more panels and dim the lot down to 600w total will give a nice spread..

No difference from a bar light apart from the amount of hangers but on the other hand you can raise each separate if one corner stretches more than another

 

[coreywebster]

FYI, if you have 630w of cmh or 600w of LED in a 4x4.. you won't need more than either.

Don't go thinking banging a 1000w in there us needed , because chances are it will be detrimental

 

[Delps8]

So, as many know, I grabbed up a 4x4 tent with all the goodies. I have a couple of 200w QB's I'm running in it now, from my previous smaller setup, just to get things going. But it's time, I would like to order a permanent light for it on Friday. I already have a 600w MH hood, that ive converted to a 630W CMH (×2 315w CMH) in the tent now, that hasn't been used yet, due to needing new bulbs. So it just sits high in the tent, just waiting as a backup or an addition during heavy flowering. It's also my exhaust duct! Haha!

Anyways, Airflow isn't an issue, as I have the 6" AC Infinity inline duct fan wide open, as an exhaust. I also have an inlet 6" duct fan, to blow cold air in, incase temps go out of my perimeters on the Inkbird. Even bought a humidifier the other day, to hook to the Inkbird humidity controller. I'm going all out this time!!

So.... The question is this! What light should I get?! My budget is about $300-350 max and I'm not buying anything under 500w. I'm really wanting a bar style light, as they just have so much better light uniformity and are pretty customizable it seems - not to mention the passive cooling HAS to work better, with all the diodes not on a single piece of aluminum. Here's the 3 options I've narrowed it down to, I'd like some input if possible...

- A used Fluence Spydr 2i 631w for $350 shipped to my door. Problem is I'm not 100% sure how long the said light has been used. The friend actually said he would send me two of them as a Christmas Gift. Though I don't really have a use for another used light atm lol... (and I'm not sure if he was being serious). If he did indeed send one, I would have backup parts or could quite possibly sell it and make my money back. I'm just worried about how they were used....
View attachment 5351377View attachment 5351378

- A brand neq Phlizon PH-B8 640w for $350 shipped to my door. This I know is brand new and the company will stand behind it for some time. But it's obviously not near as good as a light as the Fluence. Atleast not new price wise.
View attachment 5351395View attachment 5351396View attachment 5351397

- RDJ Bouns 720w for $340 shipped to my door. Now I've never heard of them and I'm kinda tired of these Chinese knockoffs and not getting the efficiency I really want. Anyone heard of them? They claim a Sosen Driver and using LM281B diodes. But $350 is a lot to me, so im taking this slow.
View attachment 5351388View attachment 5351389

- And last but not least, two brand new Growstar LZB4000 QB's - giving me 800w, but not the bar style im looking for. I can get BOTH for $160, shipped to my door (I actually have a LZB2000 in my tent now and it's a pretty nice light). They're Chinese made but have verified Phillips Diodes and Meanwell driver. The only reason I like this idea is because of the flexibility of being able to raise one side of the light and obviously the massive price difference - I would spend less than half of the $ - but I have nothing else i need for my tent other than a good light.
View attachment 5351390View attachment 5351391

Opinions?!

I didn't see any information about PPFD and since light quantity drives crop quality and yield, I would not open my wallet.

I'm with @shnkrmn — my jaw hit the floor when I saw the XS-1500 Pro. As I commented on another cannabis site "Mars must hate that light." The spectrum is good but the PPFD map is the best I've seen in 2' x 2' and the price can't be beat.

In the same way that ChilLED is now building their larger lights by fixing two of their X3 together, Vipar has a slick little bracket to hold two XS-1500 Pros together. And I think they sell a pair of them for $150. One advantage of having multiple lights is that it makes it easier to light an uneven canopy.

IIRC, the driver isn't removable on these lights but, if you're lighting a 4' x 4' for that amount, there will be tradeoffs.

And two sets of those Vipars will leave you with enough $$ so you can spend $32 on a Unit-T Bluetooth light meter. That will give you an idea of how much light your canopy is actually getting. Without it you're…in the dark about light levels.

 

[shotnva777]

Yea I totally understand everything everyone said and they're all valid points, thank you for the input and the leads! I do like the flexibility of being able to move seperate lights up and down and the price is far better (and that may be what I do) I like being able to move them freely for different plant heights and such. But for some reason I'm really set on something that's going to cover the ENTIRE grow area uniformly as well... thats why I'm liking all this input!!!

This is a hard fuckin decision. Lol! And yes, sadly, I have only 350$ to spend. I am leaning on the Fluence if he truly gives me two for the price of one. I think that's just common sense, seeing as they go for $500+, even today.

But I'm REALLY looking at this light. I absolutely love the flexibility of the lights, where u can move them vertically wherever. Not only that, they have a tilt you can use as well, that seems nifty. Ha! It has a lot of options, such as bluetooth, wifi, etc, with add on upgrades. Its supposedly their "commercial unit"

It's on sale right now, what do yall think???

 

[shotnva777]

FYI, if you have 630w of cmh or 600w of LED in a 4x4.. you won't need more than either.

Don't go thinking banging a 1000w in there us needed , because chances are it will be detrimental

This is only a backup. Trying to be more efficient

 

[shotnva777]

The coupon price on this right now is compelling. I bought it for 400, have flowered with it, very nice light. I also happen to have that Phlizon you are.looking at, it's okay but runs hot and you can't relocate the driver outside the tent. And that price is too high anyway, even if it fits your budget.

VIPARSPECTRA 2023 KS5000 LED Grow Light 500W with Samsung LM301H Osram Diodes 6 Bars Grow Light, 4x4ft Coverage Full Spectrum Uniform PPFD Dimmable Daisy Chain Commercial Grow Lamp for Indoor Plants https://a.co/d/7dW55Nv

I don't recommend those panels at all.

400 is out of my budget sadly. But what panels are u talking about? Lol. The ones u don't recommend?

And I guarantee you I can move that driver out of the tent lol.

Yeah Viparspectra is making some KILLER lights! I just bought my second XS-1500 Pro for ~$75,

If you want light coverage, then just get four of them!

I can't find them for under $100, or right at 100. I'm kinda OCD about my Lights matching, so I want to fill it fully/correctly, but with matching units.

I didn't see any information about PPFD and since light quantity drives crop quality and yield, I would not put open my wallet.

I'm with @shnkrmn — my jaw hit the floor when I saw the XS-1500 Pro. As I commented on another cannabis site "Mars must hate that light." The spectrum is good but the PPFD map is the best I've seen in 2' x 2' and the price can't be beat.

In the same way that ChilLED is now building their larger lights by fixing two of their X3 together, Vipar has a slick little bracket to hold two XS-1500 Pros together. And I think they sell a pair of them for $150. One advantage of having multiple lights is that it makes it easier to light an uneven canopy.

IIRC, the driver isn't removable on these lights but, if you're lighting a 4' x 4' for that amount, there will be tradeoffs.

And two sets of those Vipars will leave you with enough $$ so you can spend $32 on a Unit-T Bluetooth light meter. That will give you an idea of how much light your canopy is actually getting. Without it you're…in the dark about light levels.

Where is this pair of 1500's for $150? That Def intrigues me

Edit: NM I found it. Do u think two of these would truly be better than the Fluence or even the Phlizon I just posted. The 6500w Bar?

 

[shnkrmn]

Yea I totally understand everything everyone said and they're all valid points, thank you for the input and the leads! I do like the flexibility of being able to move seperate lights up and down and the price is far better (and that may be what I do) I like being able to move them freely for different plant heights and such. But for some reason I'm really set on something that's going to cover the ENTIRE grow area uniformly as well... thats why I'm liking all this input!!!

This is a hard fuckin decision. Lol! And yes, sadly, I have only 350$ to spend. I am leaning on the Fluence if he truly gives me two for the price of one. I think that's just common sense, seeing as they go for $500+, even today.

But I'm REALLY looking at this light. I absolutely love the flexibility of the lights, where u can move them vertically wherever. Not only that, they have a tilt you can use as well, that seems nifty. Ha! It has a lot of options, such as bluetooth, wifi, etc, with add on upgrades. Its supposedly their "commercial unit"

It's on sale right now, what do yall think???

I told you I have this fixture. It is heavy, each bar mounts to the driver housing with cheap hardware and each bar had its own wiring harness. the diodes are not the greatest. It runs hot and the driver is not removable. Tilting the bars makes no practical difference since the light is huge and fills a 4x4 wall to wall anyway. I'll sell you mine for $200.

 

[shotnva777]

I told you I have this fixture. It is heavy, each bar mounts to the driver housing with cheap hardware and each bar had its own wiring harness. the diodes are not the greatest. It runs hot and the driver is not removable. Tilting the bars makes no practical difference since the light is huge and fills a 4x4 wall to wall anyway. I'll sell you mine for $200.

Oh ok! I thought Those were two different lights, I didn't know. I'm really leaning on this Fluence more and more. Especially two of them.

Yea I didn't realize it was built like that.

 

[cannabiscrusader]

I didn't see any information about PPFD and since light quantity drives crop quality and yield, I would not open my wallet.

I'm with @shnkrmn — my jaw hit the floor when I saw the XS-1500 Pro. As I commented on another cannabis site "Mars must hate that light." The spectrum is good but the PPFD map is the best I've seen in 2' x 2' and the price can't be beat.

In the same way that ChilLED is now building their larger lights by fixing two of their X3 together, Vipar has a slick little bracket to hold two XS-1500 Pros together. And I think they sell a pair of them for $150. One advantage of having multiple lights is that it makes it easier to light an uneven canopy.

IIRC, the driver isn't removable on these lights but, if you're lighting a 4' x 4' for that amount, there will be tradeoffs.

And two sets of those Vipars will leave you with enough $$ so you can spend $32 on a Unit-T Bluetooth light meter. That will give you an idea of how much light your canopy is actually getting. Without it you're…in the dark about light levels.

The driver is removable on the xs3000. I have 2 of those and 2 xs2000 in a 4x8. Other 4x8 has 2 xs2000 and 1 ks5000. If I could pick one, I'd go with the xs3000 hands down. One day I'll splurge on a tomahawk, but it's viparspectra for the foreseeable future

 

[shotnva777]

I told you I have this fixture. It is heavy, each bar mounts to the driver housing with cheap hardware and each bar had its own wiring harness. the diodes are not the greatest. It runs hot and the driver is not removable. Tilting the bars makes no practical difference since the light is huge and fills a 4x4 wall to wall anyway. I'll sell you mine for $200.

What about this one? Same deal? No good?

 

[tstick]

Amazon is selling the XS1500 Pro for $99...BUT there is a 20% off coupon to clip and then another 9% which brings the price of each of them down to somewhere around $71 something. These lights are some of the most highly-rated lights ever by MIGRO, btw.

It sounds like you already have a desire for a bar light, but I think the modularity of having multiple fixtures in that space would give you far more flexibility. Anyway, happy growing!

 

[Delps8]

400 is out of my budget sadly. But what panels are u talking about? Lol. The ones u don't recommend?

And I guarantee you I can move that driver out of the tent lol.


I can't find them for under $100, or right at 100. I'm kinda OCD about my Lights matching, so I want to fill it fully/correctly, but with matching units.


Where is this pair of 1500's for $150? That Def intrigues me

Edit: NM I found it. Do u think two of these would truly be better than the Fluence or even the Phlizon I just posted. The 6500w Bar?
View attachment 5351494View attachment 5351495

It's hard to beat free and Fluence has a good reputation.

Philzon - check out their PPFD map. I clicked on this one completely at random. The goal in lighting a grow is to have an even canopy and to have a light that provides a uniform light cast from center to edge and center to corner. Ideally, the PPFD would be 1000µmol because the light saturation point for cannabis it 800-1000µmol.

In the land of reality, canopies are not even, in any appreciable size plant much less across a grow, and the closest I've seen to a uniform light cast is the Vipar XS-1500 Pro, the Growers Choice Program 320 (no longer on the market), the Spider SE 7000 (enhanced), and the Atreum light for a 2' x 4' (forgot the model). There may be others that are that good but I simply haven't run across them.

If you look at the Philzon PPFD map, the center to edge and center to corner fall off reduces as hang height increases, as expected but look at the values themselves. Take any of the PPFD maps and reduce the input wattage so as to get 1000µmol in the center. Look at the 18" map. The center value is 1572. Realistically, you're going to turn the dimmer down until you get 900µmol in the center (a grow that handles 1kµmol is unusual), so that's a 57% dimmer setting (if you can even do that because many dimmers on lights in this price range have settings that increment in 20's).

At 57% in the center, you're rocking 900µmol and the plants there are basking in the photons. A 2' x 2' area will get 57% of the values in the center. 1500* 60% is 855µmol. I'm using 1500 because it's close enough to the actual values but this is just a 2' x 2' area.

Go to the 3' x 3' and it's 1200'ish*.57 = 684µmol. Hmm…
Go to the corners or the edges and we're looking at 500± in the edges and 350± in the corners.

Second, the PPFD map is in 1' increments. There could be many reasons to do that but it would be really interesting to see what it looks like with data at 6" increments. I'd bet it's a very different story.

Finally, the data is not from an independent third party. It's marketing material.

Granted 18" is a little high for a hang height but, if you lower it to, say 14", you're going to get a more radical drop off as you move off center.

Alternatively, you could got to 24" and drop the dimmer setting to about 80%. You'll be pretty hot in the middle but you'll have good numbers in the 3' band.

Getting an even light cast is a tough problem with a big light. In the software business, the "iron triangle" is "You can have it good, you can have it soon, you can have it cheap. Pick two." For grow lights, the choices would be cheap, bright, and even; pick two.

What's interesting about the little Vipar is that it looks to be all three, cheap, bright, and even and they did it with slick engineering. Check out the review for the Vipar on cocoforcannabis. He's enthusiastic about the light, to put it mildly, but the numbers don't lie.

I'm not knocking Philzon in the least because it's a much different challenge to build a light that lights up 16 square feet than it is to make a light that covers 4 square feet. One advantage of a big light is that lighting a large room is a lot easier with larger lights. But lighting a commercial grow is not the goal - you've got one 4' x 4' tent, and the big light has a hot spot and, second, can't be easily adjusted to light an uneven canopy, which is what we end up with.

Having said that, free is hard to beat. Find a PPFD map for the Fluence and see what that looks like.

 

[shotnva777]

Amazon is selling the XS1500 Pro for $99...BUT there is a 20% off coupon to clip and then another 9% which brings the price of each of them down to somewhere around $71 something. These lights are some of the most highly-rated lights ever by MIGRO, btw.

It sounds like you already have a desire for a bar light, but I think the modularity of having multiple fixtures in that space would give you far more flexibility. Anyway, happy growing!

No, no! Not so much! Haha. I'm not dead set on it, I guess more interested in it than anything, as ive never owned one and seen some mighty fine grows with them... I think I may go with the two XS2500 Pro's, since everyone is saying how superior they are and theyre only $159 a pop. That was the whole reason for this post! Thank u for ur input!

Though two Fluence Spydr 2i for $340 to my door, sounds too good to be true. Hahaha! I have another 24 hours or so, before I place the order. So I'm gathering all the info I can!

It's hard to beat free and Fluency has a good reputation.

Philzon - check out their PPFD map. I clicked on this one completely at random. The goal in lighting a grow is to have an even canopy and to have a light that provides a uniform light cast from center to edge and center to corner. Ideally, the PPFD would be 1000µmol because the light saturation point for cannabis it 800-1000µmol.

In the land of reality, canopies are not even, in any appreciable size plant much less across a grow, and the closest I've seen to a uniform light cast is the Vipar XS-1500 Pro, the Growers Choice Program 320 (no longer on the market), the Spider SE 7000 (enhanced), and the Atreum light for a 2' x 4' (forgot the model). There may be others that are that good but I simply haven't run across them.

If you look at the Philzon PPFD map, the center to edge and center to corner fall off reduces as hang height increases, as expected but look at the values themselves. Take any of the PPFD maps and reduce the input wattage so as to get 1000µmol in the center. Look at the 18" map. The center value is 1572. Realistically, you're going to turn the dimmer down until you get 900µmol in the center (a grow that handles 1kµmol is unusual), so that's a 57% dimmer setting (if you can even do that because many dimmers on lights in this price range have settings that increment in 20's).

At 57% in the center, you're rocking 900µmol and the plants there are basking in the photons. A 2' x 2' area will get 57% of the values in the center. 1500* 60% is 855µmol. I'm using 1500 because it's close enough to the actual values but this is just a 2' x 2' area.

Go to the 3' x 3' and it's 1200'ish*.57 = 684µmol. Hmm…
Go to the corners or the edges and we're looking at 500± in the edges and 350± in the corners.

Second, the PPFD map is in 1' increments. There could be many reasons to do that but it would be really interesting to see what it looks like with data at 6" increments. I'd bet it's a very different story.

Finally, the data is not from an independent third party. It's marketing material.

Granted 18" is a little high for a hang height but, if you lower it to, say 14", you're going to get a more radical drop off as you move off center.

Alternatively, you could got to 24" and drop the dimmer setting to about 80%. You'll be pretty hot in the middle but you'll have good numbers in the 3' band.

Getting an even light cast is a tough problem with a big light. In the software business, the "iron triangle" is "You can have it good, you can have it soon, you can have it cheap. Pick two." For grow lights, the choices would be cheap, bright, and even; pick two.

What's interesting about the little Vipar is that it looks to be all three, cheap, bright, and even and they did it with slick engineering. Check out the review for the Vipar on cocoforcannabis. He's enthusiastic about the light, to put it mildly, but the numbers don't lie.

I'm not knocking Philzon in the least because it's a much different challenge to build a light that lights up 16 square feet than it is to make a light that covers 4 square feet. One advantage of a big light is that lighting a large room is a lot easier with larger lights. But lighting a commercial grow is not the goal - you've got one 4' x 4' tent, and the big light has a hot spot and, second, can't be easily adjusted to light an uneven canopy, which is what we end up with.

Having said that, free is hard to beat. Find a PPFD map for the Fluence and see what that looks like.

Man, you REALLY sound like you know what you're talking about. A lot of this is jibberish to me, this is by far the most I've ever spent on this hobby and by far the nicest stuff I've had. So, I really want to get an equally nice light. Since Vipar is doing it like that, what about the KS5000??

With a 4x4 tent, would you go with the two XS2500's or the KS5000?

 

[HydroKid239]

VIPARSPECTRA 2023 KS5000 LED Grow Light 500W with Samsung LM301H Osram Diodes 6 Bars Grow Light, 4x4ft Coverage Full Spectrum Uniform PPFD Dimmable Daisy Chain Commercial Grow Lamp for Indoor Plants https://a.co/d/0ripLvu

The KS 5000 linked above is $369 after $100 off coupon on Amazon.