Help me pick my 4x4 light! $350 to spend

[Delps8]

No, no! Not so much! Haha. I'm not dead set on it, I guess more interested in it than anything, as ive never owned one and seen some mighty fine grows with them... I think I may go with the two XS2500 Pro's, since everyone is saying how superior they are and theyre only $159 a pop. That was the whole reason for this post! Thank u for ur input!

Though two Fluence Spydr 2i for $340 to my door, sounds too good to be true. Hahaha! I have another 24 hours or so, before I place the order. So I'm gathering all the info I can!



Man, you REALLY sound like you know what you're talking about. A lot of this is jibberish to me, this is by far the most I've ever spent on this hobby and by far the nicest stuff I've had. So, I really want to get an equally nice light. Since Vipar is doing it like that, what about the KS5000??

With a 4x4 tent, would you go with the two XS2500's or the KS5000?

Check out the PPFD map for the KS 5000 and then compare it to the XS 2500 here and here. The KS is easier to deal with - hang it and leave it - and will generate more photons overall because it's 500 watts vs 300. On the other hand, 2 XS 2500's will make it easier to get things "just right" but it's also more piece parts to adjust.

Do you just want to set the light and forget it or do you want to be able to adjust your lights?

 

[shnkrmn]

What about this one? Same deal? No good?

It's a redesign of the same light with the bars mounted together at the ends instead of to a central driver housing. Much better design but still the same light in essence.

 

[Fangthane]

I'll sell you mine for $200.

Shipped?

 

[shnkrmn]

Shipped?

Did I say it was heavy? I bet shipping would be spendy! I hope.the right local person comes along for me to give it to.

 

[shotnva777]

VIPARSPECTRA 2023 KS5000 LED Grow Light 500W with Samsung LM301H Osram Diodes 6 Bars Grow Light, 4x4ft Coverage Full Spectrum Uniform PPFD Dimmable Daisy Chain Commercial Grow Lamp for Indoor Plants https://a.co/d/0ripLvu

The KS 5000 linked above is $369 after $100 off coupon on Amazon.

Man ol man! You're the absolute man!! That's a helluva deal and the exact price I'm looking for! But the buddy with the Spydr 2i says he will give me two of them for the price of one, as a Christmas present (I really do have great friends - check my other thread to see what I mean Here)

It's used, but the light is 3x's the price of the Viparspectra and I have a spare incase anything ever breaks. It's almost a no brainer, just based on the free light! But I like the KS a lot too AND it's new... dude, there's a lot to think about lol.

Check out the PPFD map for the KS 5000 and then compare it to the XS 2500 here and here. The KS is easier to deal with - hang it and leave it - and will generate more photons overall because it's 500 watts vs 300. On the other hand, 2 XS 2500's will make it easier to get things "just right" but it's also more piece parts to adjust.

Do you just want to set the light and forget it or do you want to be able to adjust your lights?

Honestly, at this point, I'd like to just throw it up and forget it, yea. I'm kinda tired of having to mess with two lights and I'm just SUPER ocd about things looking clean and professional. Haha. I also want wall to wall light uniformity and I believe the Fluence offers the best in that regard. I keep wanting to pull the trigger on a Vipar, but then the free $1500 light keeps popping back in my head. Ugh.

 

[shotnva777]

The KS5000 is actually only $355 if you apply the code MrMJCocoKS at checkout...

I'm watching his video and review on it now, then I'm going to sleep on it and make my decision in the AM

 

[shotnva777]

So I know I'm going to probably get some backlash from this but.....

Honestly this light here, the RDJ Bouns 720w is getting GREAT reviews, it has a warranty for 5 years on ALL OF THEIR PARTS. Samsung LM281B diodes, a Sosen driver, and is 700w+. Not to mention its 43"x42", so it'll fill the 4x4 perfectly. These reviews and grows I've seen are from reputable ppl, so I don't doubt them. Though theres not many reviews due to being so new, the ones thus far sound great. It also fills a 4x4 almost perfectly. They're acting like this is the next great light, supposedly the customer service is second to none as well.... when I asked customer service about IR and UV, when inquiring about some specifics, they even offered to throw in their supplement lights they make for this unit, for free!!!

The price is certainly right, especially after a discount.

After speaking with my wife, I'm going to pass on the used Fluence(s), in case something happens, I need to know that the maker will back it up. So, it needs to be new! It'll be one of these two, I'll be ordering tomorrow....

 

[Blue brother]

I’d just buy some new cmh bulbs if I was you. You do have lots of options though, have you had a look at kingbrite leds? They’re the best of the cheap imo

 

[Delps8]

So I know I'm going to probably get some backlash from this but.....

Honestly this light here, the RDJ Bouns 720w is getting GREAT reviews, it has a warranty for 5 years on ALL OF THEIR PARTS. Samsung LM281B diodes, a Sosen driver, and is 700w+. Not to mention its 43"x42", so it'll fill the 4x4 perfectly. These reviews and grows I've seen are from reputable ppl, so I don't doubt them. Though theres not many reviews due to being so new, the ones thus far sound great. It also fills a 4x4 almost perfectly. They're acting like this is the next great light, supposedly the customer service is second to none as well.... when I asked customer service about IR and UV, when inquiring about some specifics, they even offered to throw in their supplement lights they make for this unit, for free!!!

The price is certainly right, especially after a discount.

After speaking with my wife, I'm going to pass on the used Fluence(s), in case something happens, I need to know that the maker will back it up. So, it needs to be new! It'll be one of these two, I'll be ordering tomorrow....
View attachment 5351682View attachment 5351683

"Penny wise and pound foolish".

I wouldn't spend $340 on a light from a manfacturer that has zero market presence, and doesn't offer a PPFD map vs purchasing an product that's been well reviewed and well received and is backed by a company like Vipar.

From what you've said, this is a stretch to buy in financial terms. If funds are so limited, that usually calls for erring on the side of caution when making a buying decision.

You're doing the exact opposite.

The savings in cost is a pittance; there's little chance that it's a better quality product; and it may well be absolute crap.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

I hope it works out well for you.

 

[shotnva777]

"Penny wise and pound foolish".

I wouldn't spend $340 on a light from a manfacturer that has zero market presence, and doesn't offer a PPFD map vs purchasing an product that's been well reviewed and well received and is backed by a company like Vipar.

From what you've said, this is a stretch to buy in financial terms. If funds are so limited, that usually calls for erring on the side of caution when making a buying decision.

You're doing the exact opposite.

The savings in cost is a pittance; there's little chance that it's a better quality product; and it may well be absolute crap.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

I hope it works out well for you.

That is very true. The Viparspectra is a well known light and I like that the ballast isn't mounted on top. After sleeping on it, I believe I'll go with the ks5000. I just read a lot of reviews that the light isn't that bright and it's Viparspectras first bar led, so I shy'd away. I'm still going to look at the RDJ some more (btw they have a map and it's better than the KS), then I'll pull the trigger on one in a bit

 

[Delps8]

That is very true. The Viparspectra is a well known light and I like that the ballast isn't mounted on top. After sleeping on it, I believe I'll go with the ks5000. I just read a lot of reviews that the light isn't that bright and it's Viparspectras first bar led, so I shy'd away. I'm still going to look at the RDJ some more (btw they have a map and it's better than the KS), then I'll pull the trigger on one in a bit

The KS500 has a better PPFD map than the RDJ. And it's got a (slightly) better spectrum than the RDJ. We have PPFD values from an independent third party reviewer. RDJ is unknown.

The RDJ has the hot spot in the middle. If their values are accurate, the light will give you a 32" square of usable light with 1400 going to 1300± and then collapsing. You can't run at 1400µmol so you have to drop the dimmer to ⅔ power to get to about 900. That gives you an area that has 800-900µmol, which is nice, but nothing usable for 8" strip on the edges. At 100% power, PPFD values are below the 600µmol threshold. If you drop that to 66% power, you can light seedlings. That's it. You get, at most, 7 square feet of usable PAR from the RDJ.

Look at the KS5000 PPFD map. It gives you ≈ 1kmol across a pretty good sized area and has good values from the front to the back and, even at the right and left sides, it's > 600µmol. You get 16 square feet of usable PAR from the KS5000, based on Vipar's site and by test results from a reliable third party reviewer.

Note that CfC does two sets of PPFD maps, one for PAR and one for ePar. ePAR is a broader range of light, incorporating far red which has a demonstrated benefit for cell expansion. The RDJ light does have a nice spectrum but zero far red. That's one way they can save on R&D and production costs.

Dollars to doughnuts, they're hiding the ball on PPFD because they're using non-standard grid sizes. That's not a mistake - the only time I've seen PPFD maps that don't use 6" squares is in off-brand lights. Check the cocoforcannabis site ("CFC") and they're following industry practice of 6" squares.

Final point - RDJ is not in the grow light business. They're in the light business and sell some grow lights. Vipar is an established company. This is very clear to my eye when I look at their site and, for RDJ, their page on Amazon. Their site is…I wouldn't call it shoddy but it's not professional. It's…cheap. On the Amazon page, their language is not…professional. They're not using industry standard terms and they have spelling mistakes. That tells me a lot about who they are - they don't put the time into their public face. I simply have no confidence in their products because there's nothing that indicates quality. Flip that around and I couldn't make the argument to favor their product or them as a company. The Vipar light has been reviewed and gotten good recommendations by a well known third party and Vipar's business is making, selling, and supporting LED grow lights. One is not like the other and, for my $$, I'd pick the Vipar over the RDJ without a second thought.

I've got no dog in this fight - my grow lights are Growcraft form ChilLED and I spent >$500 a light for very specific reasons. Vipar is a lot closer to ChilLED than RDJ.

There's just nothing about the RDJ light that makes me think it's worth buying when compared to the Vipar, especially since it gives you usable light on less than half the area that the KS5000 does.

 

[shotnva777]

The KS500 has a better PPFD map than the RDJ. And it's got a (slightly) better spectrum than the RDJ. We have PPFD values from an independent third party reviewer. RDJ is unknown.

The RDJ has the hot spot in the middle. If their values are accurate, the light will give you a 32" square of usable light with 1400 going to 1300± and then collapsing. You can't run at 1400µmol so you have to drop the dimmer to ⅔ power to get to about 900. That gives you an area that has 800-900µmol, which is nice, but nothing usable for 8" strip on the edges. At 100% power, PPFD values are below the 600µmol threshold. If you drop that to 66% power, you can light seedlings. That's it. You get, at most, 7 square feet of usable PAR from the RDJ.

Look at the KS5000 PPFD map. It gives you ≈ 1kmol across a pretty good sized area and has good values from the front to the back and, even at the right and left sides, it's > 600µmol. You get 16 square feet of usable PAR from the KS5000, based on Vipar's site and by test results from a reliable third party reviewer.

Note that CfC does two sets of PPFD maps, one for PAR and one for ePar. ePAR is a broader range of light, incorporating far red which has a demonstrated benefit for cell expansion. The RDJ light does have a nice spectrum but zero far red. That's one way they can save on R&D and production costs.

Dollars to doughnuts, they're hiding the ball on PPFD because they're using non-standard grid sizes. That's not a mistake - the only time I've seen PPFD maps that don't use 6" squares is in off-brand lights. Check the cocoforcannabis site ("CFC") and they're following industry practice of 6" squares.

Final point - RDJ is not in the grow light business. They're in the light business and sell some grow lights. Vipar is an established company. This is very clear to my eye when I look at their site and, for RDJ, their page on Amazon. Their site is…I wouldn't call it shoddy but it's not professional. It's…cheap. On the Amazon page, their language is not…professional. They're not using industry standard terms and they have spelling mistakes. That tells me a lot about who they are - they don't put the time into their public face. I simply have no confidence in their products because there's nothing that indicates quality. Flip that around and I couldn't make the argument to favor their product or them as a company. The Vipar light has been reviewed and gotten good recommendations by a well known third party and Vipar's business is making, selling, and supporting LED grow lights. One is not like the other and, for my $$, I'd pick the Vipar over the RDJ without a second thought.

I've got no dog in this fight - my grow lights are Growcraft form ChilLED and I spent >$500 a light for very specific reasons. Vipar is a lot closer to ChilLED than RDJ.

There's just nothing about the RDJ light that makes me think it's worth buying when compared to the Vipar, especially since it gives you usable light on less than half the area that the KS5000 does.

All make sense, but I love taking risk and I guess that's just who I am....

I talked to a lot of growing friends, family growers, etc. and I just went with what felt right and seemed to fit perfectly for what I want to do. I ended up pulling the trigger on the Growline Series 720w by this newer company RDJ Bouns. The reviews are really good, all around. I'm willing to be a Guinea pig, to see if this thing is what everyone is saying it is. I have 30 days to send it back and 5 years to beat the shit out of it. That 5 year, no questions asked warranty was a huge selling point for me, and also helped justify it to my wife lmao!

The light has 1,000 more Samsung diodes than the Viparspectra KS5000, but they are the LM281B's - I thinks it's about 2,555 of them over the 6 panels. I've got a cpl small quantum boards with the same diodes and they grow great IMO. It also has a Sosen driver, very much comparable to the Vipar as well, obviously just larger. Speaking of larger, the Vipar is 40x40" and this light is 44x44".

Their customer service is top notch and when they heard how serious i was about buying a light and my hobby, they even offered to send me their UV/IR Supplement Strips that go with this light (shouldn't that help with the far red your speaking of?) free of charge. Well I say free, but they actually just asked that any grow journal videos I do, I mention their light is whats growing these forest over here. I obviously obliged and also have the supplement lights on the way! Lol. They are a cpl hundred themselves! I also looked at their master controllers ($125 for the interface) and it looks really slick. I watched a cpl videos of ppl using them and they seem to work as good as they look, which is damn good.

Overall, I'm happy with my choice and I'm glad I didn't buy a used light in the Fluence - i walked away with a sleek, powerful, new LED, with lots of nice parts thrown in it and a service rep to back it up 100%. I'm also glad I didn't buy something that I felt would've been underpowered, even thoughit may not have been. I suppose I'll never know; unless i decide I hate this thing and return it... just to buy the KS5000. Haha. In which THEN, I'll know! I've never owned anything nice really, as far as growing supplies. I've always been a DIY'er and used what was available to me financially or otherwise. I grew some absolutely top shelf weed with nothing more than a few 70w homemade MH/HPS cooltubes for years. All packed in a el cheapo 2x4 tent and tended to like a live baby! Ive def never owned any type of nice, high wattage LED; all just cheap, bottom of the barrel Chinese stuff. But so far, so good. I've been growin some killer pot, under two mismatched 200w QB's. F%#$ it, we might as well just keep the same story rolling! Ha!

THAT SAID!¡! Does anyone wanna throw down $175 and get a Fluence Spydr 2i 631w shipped to their door?! My buddy was going to ship two of them for me, to my door for $350. I can't spend that much more right now, but I would never not spend 175 to have a backup $1500 light - or to just flip it on marketplace or something. Seriously, lmk if anyone is interested - I don't know how much longer he'll have em!

Happy growing ladies and gents!

 

[Delps8]

All make sense, but I love taking risk and I guess that's just who I am....

I talked to a lot of growing friends, family growers, etc. and I just went with what felt right and seemed to fit perfectly for what I want to do. I ended up pulling the trigger on the Growline Series 720w by this newer company RDJ Bouns. The reviews are really good, all around. I'm willing to be a Guinea pig, to see if this thing is what everyone is saying it is. I have 30 days to send it back and 5 years to beat the shit out of it. That 5 year, no questions asked warranty was a huge selling point for me, and also helped justify it to my wife lmao!

The light has 1,000 more Samsung diodes than the Viparspectra KS5000, but they are the LM281B's - I thinks it's about 2,555 of them over the 6 panels. I've got a cpl small quantum boards with the same diodes and they grow great IMO. It also has a Sosen driver, very much comparable to the Vipar as well, obviously just larger. Speaking of larger, the Vipar is 40x40" and this light is 44x44".

Their customer service is top notch and when they heard how serious i was about buying a light and my hobby, they even offered to send me their UV/IR Supplement Strips that go with this light (shouldn't that help with the far red your speaking of?) free of charge. Well I say free, but they actually just asked that any grow journal videos I do, I mention their light is whats growing these forest over here. I obviously obliged and also have the supplement lights on the way! Lol. They are a cpl hundred themselves! I also looked at their master controllers ($125 for the interface) and it looks really slick. I watched a cpl videos of ppl using them and they seem to work as good as they look, which is damn good.

Overall, I'm happy with my choice and I'm glad I didn't buy a used light in the Fluence - i walked away with a sleek, powerful, new LED, with lots of nice parts thrown in it and a service rep to back it up 100%. I'm also glad I didn't buy something that I felt would've been underpowered, even thoughit may not have been. I suppose I'll never know; unless i decide I hate this thing and return it... just to buy the KS5000. Haha. In which THEN, I'll know! I've never owned anything nice really, as far as growing supplies. I've always been a DIY'er and used what was available to me financially or otherwise. I grew some absolutely top shelf weed with nothing more than a few 70w homemade MH/HPS cooltubes for years. All packed in a el cheapo 2x4 tent and tended to like a live baby! Ive def never owned any type of nice, high wattage LED; all just cheap, bottom of the barrel Chinese stuff. But so far, so good. I've been growin some killer pot, under two mismatched 200w QB's. F%#$ it, we might as well just keep the same story rolling! Ha!

THAT SAID!¡! Does anyone wanna throw down $175 and get a Fluence Spydr 2i 631w shipped to their door?! My buddy was going to ship two of them for me, to my door for $350. I can't spend that much more right now, but I would never not spend 175 to have a backup $1500 light - or to just flip it on marketplace or something. Seriously, lmk if anyone is interested - I don't know how much longer he'll have em!

Happy growing ladies and gents!

Good luck with the new light.

 

[shotnva777]

I’d just buy some new cmh bulbs if I was you. You do have lots of options though, have you had a look at kingbrite leds? They’re the best of the cheap imo

This RDJ is getting really good reviews, I've even watched a cpl of big time growers get them to test and switch their entire warehouse over to them, because they're just that much brighter than what they're using. I don't think I'll ever have it at 100% power, but I'd rather be over powered than under.

To answer your question though, I do still have 630w of CMH in the tent as well (my ducting literally runs through it lol), so its utilized - mostly during flower. Its two Phillips 3k's racked in there.

Good luck with the new light.

Thank you kind sir for the luck wished, as well as all the vital information that you slung my way. I really appreciate you're time and knowledge. I really do like to try new things and be a little different, so maybe some of that shows in my growing habits/environment. Ha!

I had to please the lover as well and somehow justify a $350 "toy" right at Christmas. BTW, this is the wife....

 

[Delps8]

This RDJ is getting really good reviews, I've even watched a cpl of big time growers get them to test and switch their entire warehouse over to them, because they're just that much brighter than what they're using. I don't think I'll ever have it at 100% power, but I'd rather be over powered than under.

To answer your question though, I do still have 630w of CMH in the tent as well (my ducting literally runs through it lol), so its utilized - mostly during flower. Its two Phillips 3k's racked in there.
View attachment 5352046


Thank you kind sir for the luck wished, as well as all the vital information that you slung my way. I really appreciate you're time and knowledge. I really do like to try new things and be a little different, so maybe some of that shows in my growing habits/environment. Ha!

I had to please the lover as well and somehow justify a $350 "toy" right at Christmas. BTW, this is the wife....

Per above, this light as a usable area that's a square with 16" sides. If you keep your plants in 2.5' x 2.5' area, you should be good.

 

[shotnva777]

Per above, this light as a usable area that's a square with 16" sides. If you keep your plants in 2.5' x 2.5' area, you should be good.

How is that even possible though? There's an even amount of lights across an entire area.... do they lose power towards the ends or something? Because otherwise, the outside is the same as the inside. I'm not being a smartass, I'm truly asking...

I'm in the middle of setting it up now. I should get the Spydr 2i's within the next week. I'm going to run the RDJ for the next 28 days or so and if I don't like the results, I'll return it, get my money back, buy a C02 setup and use the Fluence at free will. But the way its looking, this light CRANKS.

(Pics to follow soon)

 

[TCH]

How is that even possible though? There's an even amount of lights across an entire area.... do they lose power towards the ends or something? Because otherwise, the outside is the same as the inside. I'm not being a smartass, I'm truly asking...

I'm in the middle of setting it up now. I should get the Spydr 2i's within the next week. I'm going to run the RDJ for the next 28 days or so and if I don't like the results, I'll return it, get my money back, buy a C02 setup and use the Fluence at free will. But the way its looking, this light CRANKS.

(Pics to follow soon)

Overlap of the bars. When you get to the edges, they only have other lights on 1 side of them.

 

[shotnva777]

Overlap of the bars. When you get to the edges, they only have other lights on 1 side of them.

I don't see what you're talking about AT ALL, all of the strips have the same amount of lights and theirs no overlapping of bars?

I'm impressed with this sucker so far... but I would like that explained to me, how the light just disappears when it get to the outside some how! Lol

 

[TCH]

Look at the bar in the middle. See how it has a bar on each side of it. That means the lights on the middle bar have light from the bars on either side overlapping it a bit. Now look at the bar on the outside. It only has a bar on one side of it.

 

[Kief Stoned]

THAT SAID!¡! Does anyone wanna throw down $175 and get a Fluence Spydr 2i 631w shipped to their door?! My buddy was going to ship two of them for me, to my door for $350.

Yea, I would. But how would we go about it?