DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Read the report from them I posted it is full of numbers...
The renewable energy changes and policy
- Thread starter DIY-HP-LED
- Start date
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Oh man if you’re thinking of starting a church I’m so going to call you finshaggy.Almost a religious thing that I call the "Gospel of Green".
That’s overly optimistic. You can’t have it both ways. That is, the effect of the changes you envision would have such a large impact that fact by itself is going to create so much resistance it slows progress down. You’re imagining a world where wise people choose wise politicians that do the right and smart thing.
Couple of years ago a stereotypical inventor in NL invented a nitrogen capture machine. About the size of a fridge. Pretty magical stuff, throws in some plant and bacteria based stuff, and it draws the nitrogen out of a stable/barn. To a point where it doesn’t smell like you’re walking in an ammonia cloud, 99% effective. Near instant solution for the nitrogen problem in NL. And thus the housing problem, and the faux immigrant problem, and the farmer protests…
replacements that are found in the meat sections, and 3d printed stuff are not meant for vegans or vegetarians in mind, they're meant for people who eat meat to switch to an alternative.
I assure you ive never met a long term vegan like beyond meat etc, its gross. im sure there are some who enjoy it but most of us the general consensus is yuck we tend to stick to like veggie burgers.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
You know what they say about "bold claims"...
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I find the trend fascinating if true, but people will have more of a choice about what they eat and can eat what they wish. If it's true, then the political implications will be enormous. I have no agenda or stake in this, but it appears it could have profound political implications, over a relatively short period of time.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
They account for such resistance in their report, but market forces conquer all, when they have ethical concerns on their side plus many benefits. No country is an island (except the UK) and trade and market forces will prevail, they always do. I'm not defending their report, just watching what happens and so far, it appears to be tracking. If true to predictions it will be another liberal vs conservative, urban vs rural shitstorm of epic proportions all over the fucking planet!
Drop That Sound
Well-Known Member
Obtaining hydrogen from vine shoots for biofuel production
A research team from the universities of Jaén and São Paulo in Brazil has confirmed that hydrogen can be obtained from vine shoots through a process that does not require fossil fuels and does not emit pollutants. With their work, they manage to give new value to this waste from the wine...
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Sooner or later it is gonna be like trying to run an electronics factory using vacuum tubes to build TVs and radios in the digital age with microprocessors costing pennies. Same general idea, suppliers and markets dry up, your value chain was disrupted and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.I just checked to see if and what the political parties had to say about it in recent elections, and it makes me almost feel bad voor the BBB (farmer party) and its supporters (farmers, obviously). Basically on the far-left (party for the animals) they are all over it, green/labor even set targets for 2030, and on the far-right including BBB it’s not mentioned in their programs at all. The founder and leader of the BBB is not the brightest leaf on the tree, just another populist who saw an opportunity and it sure looks like they could use a better person to defend their interests. On the other hand, all the parties that had ambitious plans for the protein transitition lost in recent elections and won’t be part of the coalition. A similar outcome is starting to seem more likely in Germany, which on the short term worries me a lot more than protein and climate change.
Why Europe’s farmers are protesting – and the far right is taking note
For some farmers already struggling, paying for more of their pollution is a step too far. Germany is the latest country to see anger boil overwww.theguardian.com
Germany’s far right seek revolution in farmers' protests
As farmers blockade roads over subsidy cuts, neo-Nazi or monarchist groups are turning up at rallies.www.bbc.com
One of the protest signs in Germany: “grandpa, what is a farm? And while dutch farmers had “no farmers, no food” signs, I saw a “no farmers, no beer!” sign in Germany. In that case it’s about diesel subsidies so also tractors for ‘plant’ farmers. Reality is, if we can drastically reduce the cow stock, there will be plenty of space and grain left to create beer.
I said it in previous posts, nothing against a hard working honest farmer, but after more news on those German farmers I do have to conclude they too are cunt farmers. Average loss per farmer 10k annually.… see comment about subsidies above, and that’s just from EU. Nationally they get billions too. Now the government wants to cut on the subsidies (tax cuts) for diesel and they act just as entitled, as if farming is a godgiven right. Their attitude is in a way worse than big oil.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
"We'll see"
Entire nations' economy and society and the natural order of things didn't depend on vacuum tubes, which makes that comparison a false equivalence. I'm not disagreeing with your Green Gospel Prophecies in this matter, just the time frame you mentioned. Given the impact, there's no other option to introduce it slower than we technically in an ideal world could. Not everyone shares your excitement about:
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I looked up how they make those Beyond Meat burgers and it sure isn't something I'll ever eat. Ultra highly processed and something out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab for sure. I recently got 16lbs of hemp protein powder and another 16lbs of hemp hearts to boost my protein intake as I'm not a big eater so need to get more of that.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
to bolded 1: how? He does not even have a Wiki page, and my searches only turn up his company’s sales stuff. I’m finding no neutral third-party analyses or critiques.
To bolded 2: I’ve seen “2020-2030” forecasts which are obviously not yet done, so not amenable to evaluation.
Did I miss the third-party look at 2010-2020 predictions published before 2010?
Enquiring minds wanna know!
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Have you seen any negative reviews? They started a think tank and have a variety of reports, Seba predictions are historically documented in the media. My nick name for the outlook on renewables and food production is, the green gospel, meaning good news. Like I said I'm not defending the forecasts so much as looking at the implications if true. We are 4 years into a ten-year forecast on using genetic technology for protein production, outcomes are getting easier to predict and it might be worth keeping an eye on the industry. If I were in the industry or had a stake I would be concerned and paying attention.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Yep, some people have a strong connection to the land, but governments are concerned about food prices and stability, also there are issues of economic freedom for new businesses and of course corporate interests. It won't happen everywhere all at once and at first only dairy will be affected, these forecasts only apply in America and perhaps the EU for now, Asia is not mentioned. I'll keep tracking the industry and seeing if I can find anything on cost curves or independent criticism of the RethinkX report on food. I'm not completely "sold", wait and see, but a stunning prospect.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Good stuff.
I see Rutger Bregman (author Utopia for Realists and How Can We Get There, same guy who started about taxes at Davos and caused Tucker Carlson to melt down on his own show) has been writing and posting quite a bit about it (cellulair agriculture include precision fermentation).
Nearly a third of all EU subsidies go to agricultural. Over 99% of that goes to meat and dairy. NL get’s a billion annually, France, Italy, and Germany a whole lot more. It’s partly a historic artifact, negotiating agricultural subsidies allowed countries like NL, Germany and France to slighlty offset their net contribution to the EU. Most goes to the north west of eu, i.e. the members who receive most also pay most. So it’s a tool by itself, one some countries (especially France and Italy) would hate to see go because just a tiny piece of NL will produce enough.
As one of the main dairy exporters in the world, NL used to have China by the balls, well at least a two-finger pinch on one ball. China set out to massively increase and promote milk consumption a few years ago, as well as production. Still not self-sufficient but getting their faster than expected. If not, it’s going to affect the trade balance with China in a negative way too.
Cows got to be impregnated to produce milk. Who knew… well, turns out that comes as a surprise to many. It leads to a calf. NL slaughters 750k of those by product calves per year. From 1.5mil milk cows (not sure how that works but ah well…). And we’ve gotten so efficient at it, others export the same amount to us for us to exterminate them. The only upside of it being done in NL is that we generally do adhere to the regulations and use most of the calf, including for leather of course. Without that leather and byproducts, other countries with less strict rules would produce part of that it in even less animal and environment friendly ways.
1.5mil calves, annually, as a by product of milk produced in this corner of eu. We got a 100million chickens. Almost 6 per capita. Half the country’s land is used for agriculture (producing only 1.5%gdp, but half of that is from plants not animals). So yeah, bring it.
This is from the most powerful dairy company in NL. The main middleman between dutch farmers and stores and other countries.
FrieslandCampina Ingredients and Triplebar Bio Inc. partner to bring cell-based proteins to market through precision fermentation - FrieslandCampina Ingredients
FrieslandCampina Ingredients, the global innovator in healthy and functional ingredients, today announces it has entered a strategic partnership with specialist biotechnology company Triplebar Bio Inc. to develop and scale up the production of cell-based proteins using precision fermentation...www.frieslandcampinaingredients.com
FrieslandCampina reveals 2024 trends report
Key trends to watch in 2024 will include next-gen alt protein solutions, sustainability with substantiation, medicines for the mind and active ageing solutions.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Five Predictions For Food And Agtech In 2024
Top experts share their 2024 predictions for food and agtech innovation and investment in 2024. These are the themes that stood out.
www.forbes.com
With nearly one-third of global emissions originating in our food system, experts believe that soil management and regenerative farming is one key to climate change mitigation and carbon management.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Is 2024 the year of wider-scale new age meat approval?
Research and development into fermentation techniques and cultured meat production were big headlines in 2023. But what can we expect from 2024?
Is 2024 the year of wider-scale new age meat approval?
05-Jan-2024 By Bethan Grylls
Research and development into fermentation techniques and cultured meat production were big headlines in 2023. But what can we expect from 2024?
HTTPS://WWW.FOODMANUFACTURE.CO.UK/ARTICLE/2024/01/05/WHEN-WILL-CULTURED-MEAT-BE-APPROVED-MORE-WIDELY
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
1) I have not seen any reviews.
2) Link please to something not originating with or simply c&p’ing their content or press releases.
3) three, barely.
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I have not found much, but have not seriously looked, but when I did look, I expected to see criticism at least, maybe scandal. I did see a lot of media stories tracking with the forecast and it is full of references and documentation, designed for policy makers, investors and those unfamiliar with the tech. I'm not selling the guy but looking at their forecast of 5 years ago and tracking current events in the field and it appears on track, we are 30% in on the decade forecast. There is an awful lot of interest in precision fermentation by industry and government, investment too.
My real interest are the follow-on effects if these technological predictions come true and that is covered in some detail in the report. The political implications are not mentioned too much, but it doesn't take much of an imagination to guess what they might be. I don't blame anybody for being skeptical of the report or RethinkX, the implications are hard for me to get my head around and accept. It's the impact on the environment, economy and a whole host of other knock on issues that have me thinking about and watching this particular industry. When viewed in isolation these biotechnological innovations are interesting, but when viewed in the context of the RethinkX report they take on a whole new meaning and import.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Im going from the assumption that if they were onto something and using accepted methods, there’d be some media buzz that Google would readily reveal. No buzz. Since I cannot get a perspective on their quality and bias, I lose interest. Too many salesmen; not enough reviewers.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
You can take a few minutes to at least read the reports executive summary. They sell consulting services, so the report is par for the course slick in format. One could say they are in a high-risk business, prophecy... We will see, by the time we get to 50% of the time frame the rest should be more apparent. If he was talking shit others would be on him like stink on shit, instead he recruited data scientists and created a Think tank, time will tell. For now, it gives me a framework to view near term technological and economic changes, political changes driven by technology too.