So what rights are you radicalized enough to give up?

[Timezone]

Hmm... I do not believe I have been radicalized so, I do not know if my answer counts, but I have to say that, as a descendant of immigrants (as we all are since humans first arrived in North America 12,000 to 30,000 years ago), with family that has fought in defense on this country, and having lost my youngest son, a Marine, in 2008, I am no longer willing to give an inch.

I believe that is covered under the classic example of shouting Fire! in a crowded theater — as an indicator that freedom of speech is not absolute.

For years, I have heard this statement but I do not believe it is actually illegal to shout "fire" in a theater, crowded or otherwise. From a quick source, Wikipedia:

"Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular analogy for speech or actions whose principal purpose is to create panic, and in particular for speech or actions which may for that reason be thought to be outside the scope of free speech protections. The phrase is a paraphrasing of a dictum, or non-binding statement, from Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.'s opinion in the United States Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States in 1919, which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. The case was later partially overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969, which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. an immediate riot).[1]

The paraphrasing differs from Holmes's original wording in that it typically does not include the word falsely, while also adding the word crowded to describe the theatre.[2]

The utterance of "fire!" in and of itself is not generally illegal within the United States: "sometimes you could yell 'fire' in a crowded theater without facing punishment. The theater may actually be on fire. Or you may reasonably believe that the theater is on fire".[3] Furthermore, within the doctrine of first amendment protected free speech within the United States, yelling "fire!" as speech is not itself the legally problematic event, but rather, "there are scenarios in which intentionally lying about a fire in a crowded theater and causing a stampede might lead to a disorderly conduct citation or similar charge."[3]

Actually, I believe there are way too many people shouting "fire" all around us, but I digress...

 

[amneziaHaze]

I asked this question a couple times and it seems to make people mad at first, but at the end of the day I think it is relevant and still correct in how it is stated.

Some people may for example be radicalized agains the killing of children enough to give up some second amendment rights, some (like myself) may give up some pretend first amendment rights to not have the ability to post on certain social media companies that are owned by foreign nations that are brainwashing us into all kinds of shit, some may be willing to give up the rights to self autonomy to stop everyone else from having an abortion, ect. I was just tossing this out there to see, ask, question, what rights are you willing to give up in response to stuff you care about that others might not be.

Leave tik tok alone.

 

[hanimmal]

Leave tik tok alone.

I do, never have and never will use that shit.

I don't like to give foreign militaries every single type of real time trackable information on my phone that they can then dump into a.i. programs to brainwash me and everyone I know/communicate with.

 

[amneziaHaze]

I do, never have and never will use that shit.

I don't like to give foreign militaries every single type of real time trackable information on my phone that they can then dump into a.i. programs to brainwash me and everyone I know/communicate with.

Little bit late since all your electronics is developed in china....

 

[hanimmal]

Little bit late since all your electronics is developed in china....

And outside of this computer on this forum (that is one of the only social media sites I ever signed up on) I try to avoid them as much as possible.

 

[amneziaHaze]

And outside of this computer on this forum (that is one of the only social media sites I ever signed up on) I try to avoid them as much as possible.

your phone with chinese chips scans your face 5 times every minute with the front camera. your microphone listens to every second of your life since you carry a phone where ever you go. you phone tracks your location even when its in airplane mode. social media is not that much

 

[Sativied]

It is an offense to insult a cop.

It is morally all wrong there's no exception for cops handing out parking tickets.

It’s cultural.

afaik, the relevant laws in Germany are used primarily to prosecute far-right leaders and actual nazis repetitively violating the law. It very much depends on the setting too.

No answer to OP's question yet. So far 'none'. It reminds me of... I forgot the context... it was trendy for kids to shout "I have rights!" till someone older and wiser pointed out: yes, but you have responsibilities too. Ah yes, that was mom. More responsibilities through regulation based on sound arguments I do not necessarily oppose.

 

[Fogdog]

I want my 29 minutes back.

I must say I admire the ability to drop some alternative thinking on everybody with what always appears to be good intentions and not getting wound up or lashing out when challenged. Stops in, says what wants to be said, doesn't run or hide from it - and it's done in a way that doesn't come across offensive. We may think on different wavelengths and I can respect that. It reminds me that this is

Its a good thing, diversity. I miss the days when we could have differences in opinion and not be threatened for having a one. I miss the days when people with different opinions fought for what they thought was right at the ballot box and considered terrorism or insurrection a bad thing.

So, yeah, drop that sound is kind of a gentle reminder of the days before MAGA and I hope we can get back to a semblance of them.

 

[hanimmal]

your phone with chinese chips scans your face 5 times every minute with the front camera. your microphone listens to every second of your life since you carry a phone where ever you go. you phone tracks your location even when its in airplane mode. social media is not that much

Which is why I set my iphone down by the tv that is set to MSNBC and leave it unless there is a reason for me to be on it. Fuck them, let them waste their time downloading it all and waisting their computation power going through pictures of my dogs and long ass (hours long when I forget to shut it off and set it down) video I take while walking them around my backyard. Also nice to have a secondary phone that doesn't have any of that shit for more regular use.

 

[Fogdog]

your phone with chinese chips scans your face 5 times every minute with the front camera. your microphone listens to every second of your life since you carry a phone where ever you go. you phone tracks your location even when its in airplane mode. social media is not that much

I don't have a cell phone, in part for that very reason.

Not to mention my right to quiet time and mindfulness. But I'm not saying you should give up that phone. Just worried that at some time it will be impossible to navigate this society without one. It's getting there.

 

[amneziaHaze]

I don't have a cell phone, in part for that very reason.

Not to mention my right to quiet time and mindfulness. But I'm not saying you should give up that phone. Just worried that at some time it will be impossible to navigate this society without one. It's getting there.

yea its a nice thingy can do soo much stuff, hard to not have it

 

[OldMedUser]

your phone with chinese chips scans your face 5 times every minute with the front camera. your microphone listens to every second of your life since you carry a phone where ever you go. you phone tracks your location even when its in airplane mode. social media is not that much

Cars are even worse for knowing everything that goes on in them. At least with a phone you can refuse permissions for apps, turn off location tracking and use a VPN to hide your actual IP.

In my 2008 Saturn Vue the only tracking it has is the OnStar which I pulled the plugs on it's control module otherwise it still tracks your movements even when you don't subscribe to the service.

I have Proton VPN on both my desktop and phone. I rarely use my phone for anything other than making calls or flying my drone and the fact that I have to turn on location for the drone pisses me off but it's too much fun to not use it. Like TikTok the US is looking at banning DJI drones as a security risk and that is largely due to a US maker of crappy drones trying to get more business.

Another generation and people will happily allow microchips to be implanted in their newborns.

 

[Sir Napsalot]

yea its a nice thingy can do soo much stuff, hard to not have it

I've found it easy

 

[ooof-da]

I've found it easy

Hats off to you two, I feel so dependent on my phone and even get those weird leg twinge things happening like it’s in my pocket vibrating when in reality it’s not even on me at that time and no one cares to talk to me lol…I may need to hit a cell phone anonymous meeting one of these days. I’ll just punch it in my phone so I don’t get lost.

 

[DeadHeadX]

I asked this question a couple times and it seems to make people mad at first, but at the end of the day I think it is relevant and still correct in how it is stated.

Some people may for example be radicalized agains the killing of children enough to give up some second amendment rights, some (like myself) may give up some pretend first amendment rights to not have the ability to post on certain social media companies that are owned by foreign nations that are brainwashing us into all kinds of shit, some may be willing to give up the rights to self autonomy to stop everyone else from having an abortion, ect. I was just tossing this out there to see, ask, question, what rights are you willing to give up in response to stuff you care about that others might not be.

The OP asks about the “foreign nations that are brainwashing us”. I would say simply that most of the “brainwashing” Americans suffer from is created domestically.

 

[OldMedUser]

The OP asks about the “foreign nations that are brainwashing us”. I would say simply that most of the “brains washing” Americans suffer from is created domestically.

tRump's been doing a hell of a job on the maga crowd for sure.

Should be a vaccine for that but you'd never get them to take it.

 

[DeadHeadX]

tRump's been doing a hell of a job on the maga crowd for sure.

Should be a vaccine for that but you'd never get them to take it.

Very true, though I’d also argue that both parties feature their share of “brainwashed” folk. A two party system encourages it. Belong to one party long enough and you become trained to hate the other party, apparently, and mostly incapable of considering ideas that come from a side other than their own.

 

[OldMedUser]

Very true, though I’d also argue that both parties feature their share of “brainwashed” folk. A two party system encourages it. Belong to one party long enough and you become trained to hate the other party, apparently, and mostly incapable of considering ideas that come from a side other than their own.

I believe that most dems and repubs can still have civil disagreements. It's the extremes on both sides which are the minority but are having a disproportionate influence on events.

As a Canadian I am but an avid observer and what I'm seeing is one party that has totally lost it's way and wants to return to a past best left in the past. Then another party looking to the future and taking bold steps to get there in great shape.

Rather than thinking Biden is too old I believe he's the perfect man for the times. He's not worried about getting re-elected after another term or a new career in the private sector so he can make changes that others would be too afraid to do. Changes for the good of the whole and not the uber-rich. He's got a hell of a lot more going on upstairs than that bumbling, incoherent, diaper filling clown of a presidential candidate ever had.

 

[DeadHeadX]

I believe that most dems and repubs can still have civil disagreements. It's the extremes on both sides which are the minority but are having a disproportionate influence on events.

As a Canadian I am but an avid observer and what I'm seeing is one party that has totally lost it's way and wants to return to a past best left in the past. Then another party looking to the future and taking bold steps to get there in great shape.

Rather than thinking Biden is too old I believe he's the perfect man for the times. He's not worried about getting re-elected after another term or a new career in the private sector so he can make changes that others would be too afraid to do. Changes for the good of the whole and not the uber-rich. He's got a hell of a lot more going on upstairs than that bumbling, incoherent, diaper filling clown of a presidential candidate ever had.

I appreciate your optimism. I want to be but am not impressed with the Dems. I like Biden but can’t deny the effects of age - regardless, with the two choices presented, he is an easy check in the voting room.

Still, I think the Dems have lost their way, and this is reflected in their deteriorating base. That they’ve lost the working class and so much more to one such as DT shows just how ineffective they’ve become.

 

[hanimmal]

The OP asks about the “foreign nations that are brainwashing us”. I would say simply that most of the “brainwashing” Americans suffer from is created domestically.

There is a lot of truth to this for sure. Shit look at all the advertising that we have pushing food that is thousands and thousands of calories and we wonder why we have an obesity issue.

At the end of the day though, there is a reason we have laws against foreign involvement in our elections. If hatemongers here want to get their fascist leaders elected, and push their views on others with shit like having kids in church camps catfishing other Americans on social media, if they are American and not breaking the law that sucks but at the end of the day is someone that will be here to see the consequences of their stupidity.

Foreign militaries flooding the zone with nonstop propaganda are not doing it because they think that it is somehow beneficial for America. That is the difference.

There is a very good reason that our first POTUS warned us on foreign involvement in our elections, and those reasons still hold today.

Very true, though I’d also argue that both parties feature their share of “brainwashed” folk. A two party system encourages it. Belong to one party long enough and you become trained to hate the other party, apparently, and mostly incapable of considering ideas that come from a side other than their own.

Ever since the Democrats had to restructure after the civil rights era though they have not have the same push from their political backers to buy up every radio/tv/newspaper/social media/politician/judge/etc and nationalize it into one message of anti-'Them' like the Republicans have been for decades.

The Democrats have been representing 100% of our nation's citizens and that is far harder to maintain one view and have had to work across all the different ideas of the needs of all our citizens. And the anti-Republican sediment really comes down to the absolute obstruction that they have been doing for the last handful of decades because it helps the one set of citizens that they legislate for.

The 'Both sides' narrative is not real and is more about being told that it is the case than it being so.

I appreciate your optimism. I want to be but am not impressed with the Dems. I like Biden but can’t deny the effects of age - regardless, with the two choices presented, he is an easy check in the voting room.

Still, I think the Dems have lost their way, and this is reflected in their deteriorating base. That they’ve lost the working class and so much more to one such as DT shows just how ineffective they’ve become.

He has put great people around him, and shown they can get it done in the worst circumstances that were dropped on his doorstep when he took office. At the end of that day that is all we can really hope for. I never believed the need for some great leader, just someone competent that is able to listen and make hard decisions that are as well thought out as possible with the given information and willingness to change course without being a willy nilly pant wetter.

Also I like Biden has not appointed any trolls, and has let them testify in the hearings without playing games like the previous 4 years were full of.