Senate fails to pass bailout bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Microdizzey]

Dropped like a hammer. That's hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.

(CNN) -- Senate Democrats and the White House failed to find 60 votes to end debate on a $14 billion auto bailout bill and bring it to a vote Thursday night, killing the measure for the year.
Sen. Tom Coburn, center, and other Republican senators raised objections to the auto bailout plan Wednesday.

The 52-35 vote followed the collapse of negotiations between Senate Democrats and Republicans seeking a compromise.
"We have worked and worked and we can spend all night tonight, tomorrow, Saturday, and Sunday, and we're not going to get to the finish line," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said on the Senate floor before the vote. "That's just the way it is. There's too much difference between the two sides."
Reid acknowledged the bill would not survive the procedural vote.
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States.
Currently, analysts estimate the union workers at U.S. automakers make about $3 to $4 per hour more than the non-union U.S. employees of foreign automakers like Toyota and Honda, according to the Center for Automotive Research.
The House easily passed the bailout bill earlier this week, but it quickly ran into trouble in the Senate, where Republicans objected to several provisions. Negotiations Thursday involved a compromise proposal put forward by Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, but the senators could not reach agreement.


While Ford Motor has more cash on hand to avoid an immediate crisis, its production could be disrupted by problems in the supplier base, as could the production of overseas automakers with U.S. plants such as Toyota Motor and Honda Motor.
The struggling automakers may get some money anyway.
As part of their effort to urge skeptical Republicans to back the deal, Bush officials made clear that if Congress didn't act, the White House would have to step in to save Detroit from collapse with funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, according to the sources familiar with the conversations.
One of the sources said that a White House official made it clear to a GOP senator that would be the worst option, because the loan could go to the auto companies with few or no requirements along with it.
The sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of private conversations.

Democrats pressed the White House from the start to help Detroit by using some of the $700 billion for the financial sector, but the White House and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson refused.
"I would only hope that the president, who has worked so well with us for the past several weeks, would now consider using the TARP money," Reid said after Thursday night's vote.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Ummmm, I read here and there the unions refused to accept pay cuts to bring them into competition with jap auto makers.
I am not a anti union person, but when you have the choice of a wage cut or no job...sorry, the unions have killed the American auto market.
I read it was damn near a done deal but the unions killed it. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

 

[strangerdude562]

Yeah the unions refused a republican deal, I think I would have refused it to. They were planning to cut workers pay, and they said hell to the no!

 

[panhead]

Here we go again with another union bashing thread & as allways from people who are not union & have not the slighetest clue about union wages at the big 3,im no fan of the united auto workers union or most of its membership but anybody who thinks the problem with the big 3's cash meltdown has anything to do with union scale they are dreaming.

The business model that the big 3 currently use is an outdated business plan,leaving them trailing behind in last place,on top of an outdated business plan the big 3 are dealing with legacy issues that come along with being in business as long as they have,worker wage cuts pale in comparison to the monthly expenses the big 3 pay out to retiree's in pension & health care costs,these 2 burdens alone put them at an extreme disadvantage behing japaneese automakers.

I grew up in Detroit & have lived most of my life here,half my family & alot of people i know work or have retired from the big 3,on top of that ive worked inside most of the major auto plants around the country over the last 25 years as an outside contractor,what ive seen in the last 10 years or so is a union employee base really clean up its act & take real pride in their work,the membership have gave until therre is no more to give,they have a teired wage system where only high senority workers recievbe top pay which is directly inline with japaneese automakers wages for their top hourly employees,all other low senority workers are paid much less,a very large number of workers are on a temp basis & laid off in 89 days so they do not qualify for insurance.

The union hourly membership has gave plenty to the point there is no more to give,whats needed is for a complete overhaul of management,the salaries they recieve,an imediate stop to pork barrell spending where top exectutives soend cash like there is no tomorrow,no more lear jet travel for dozens of company big wigs,no more multi million dollar sallaries with stock options & golden parachute cash buy out clauses included in their contract,no more free company cars for countless white shirts,changes need to be made but they need to come from the top to correct the problems.

To stress the pork barrell mentality that white shirts have at the big 3 all one has to do is look back a few weeks,they all show up pleading with the government & claiming poverty,they asked for billions of dollars to keep them going yet it never occured to a single one of the exectutives that it might be a very bad idea to show up in a small fleet of leased lear jets when claiming poverty.

Weather the bill passed ot not the US automakers are not going anywhere,help will come at the last second,way too much rides on their survival to let them take a dump,i think the governments stand is the proper stand to take as well,until all the greedy morons in charge can restructure the management end of the corporations & produce a working business model designed with making a profit then all funds should be witheld,this is the only way to get the management at the big 3 to understand that the needed changes rest with them & not taking anymore away from the hourly workers.

And for the guy's who have never worked or lived in an autoworker town,contrary to popular belief most UAW workers are not getting rich nor do they have ultra high paying jobs,i had several chances in my life to work for the big 3 & i passed on all of them because i could make much more at many other jobs,including construction,most UAW members here in Detroit make under $100,000 a year,that sounds like a lot to young people just starting out in life but think of it like this,after 25 years at the same job isnt a man deserving of $75,000 a year ?

 

[ststepen420]

im glad, they dont need to give them shit. They got thereselves into that mess and they should let them find a way out, its not our job as taxpayers to keep a company operating. They should be giving that money to the people, if they give it to the people then they pay their mortgages and the banks rebound, the people buy new cars, the auto companies get back on track. The people go out and spend and buy things and the economy recovers.

 

[jfgordon1]

im glad, they dont need to give them shit. They got thereselves into that mess and they should let them find a way out, its not our job as taxpayers to keep a company operating. They should be giving that money to the people, if they give it to the people then they pay their mortgages and the banks rebound, the people buy new cars, the auto companies get back on track. The people go out and spend and buy things and the economy recovers.

agree 100%

 

[saynotothebs]

the downfall of this nation is starting....buckle up people and be safe everyone...

 

[ststepen420]

started 8 years ago when we put a retard in office

 

[Microdizzey]

LOL true that.

We'll see what happens in a few hours.

"I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It's not going to be a pleasant sight." - Senator Reid

 

[panhead]

started 8 years ago when we put a retard in office

True'r words were never spoken thats for sure,bush wrecked us,i hope his entire family rotts in hell for all he's done.

 

[FLoJo]

as much as i love to hop on the bush bandwagon, our problems run much deeper than bush... our entire leveraged economy, outsourcing of industry, living on credit and borrowed time has all contributed to our current situation. he did double our national debt and more money has been spent on expanding government than probably the last 4 presidents before him... but he has certainly expedited the process...and as the head of state he sure has created a laughingstock out of our great country...

 

[cheeseysynapse]

Still some time left for a Rick Wagoner gut check. C'mon Rick. Hold up your hand, point it the direction of congress, pull down all your fingers except the middle one. Declare Ch.11. And watch the traffic jams at GM dealerships across the country.

I'd do a trade in tomorrow.

 

[VTXDave]

started 8 years ago when we put a retard in office

Don't forget Congress.

 

[Big P]

White House considering using Wall Street rescue fund to help troubled automakers

• Friday December 12, 2008, 9:30 am EST

ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE (AP) -- The White House says it is considering using the Wall Street rescue fund to prevent U.S. automakers from failing.

President George W. Bush's press secretary says it would be "irresponsible" to further weaken the economy by letting the Detroit car companies fail. Dana Perino says the White House normally would prefer to let the financial markets determine the companies' fate.
But she says that given the economy's shape, the White House will consider other options if necessary to prevent the automakers' collapse -- and that could mean using money from the $700 billion Wall Street rescue.
Perino says Bush and top aides talked on Friday about the urgency of the situation. A potential $14 billion to aid the companies collapsed in the Senate on Thursday night.
Perino made the remarks as Bush flew to Texas for a commencem

 

[medicineman]

Nationalize them untill they can pay back the "loans", that way we can get rid of the asshole management team that let them get so fucked up, give the employees government medical insurance, heck that would take 1525.00 dollars off the price of a new car alone, or give the automakers that much in profits, per car.

 

[Dfunk]

Besides what ststephen had to say this thread has been pretty unconstructive.

 

[Microdizzey]

White House considering using Wall Street rescue fund to help troubled automakers

• Friday December 12, 2008, 9:30 am EST

ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE (AP) -- The White House says it is considering using the Wall Street rescue fund to prevent U.S. automakers from failing.

President George W. Bush's press secretary says it would be "irresponsible" to further weaken the economy by letting the Detroit car companies fail. Dana Perino says the White House normally would prefer to let the financial markets determine the companies' fate.
But she says that given the economy's shape, the White House will consider other options if necessary to prevent the automakers' collapse -- and that could mean using money from the $700 billion Wall Street rescue.
Perino says Bush and top aides talked on Friday about the urgency of the situation. A potential $14 billion to aid the companies collapsed in the Senate on Thursday night.
Perino made the remarks as Bush flew to Texas for a commencem

YES they should definitely use the money from the other bailout. We don't hear anything about where that $700 bill is going... and they won't have to take taxpayer money (without taxpayer agreement) again.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

started 8 years ago when we put a retard in office

STarted a lot longer ago than that, started when we put the Socialist FDR in office.

Or if you really want to go back completely to the source of the problem. Started when we allowed the Socialists to shove the income tax down our throats.

 

[ViRedd]

... most UAW members here in Detroit make under $100,000 a year,that sounds like a lot to young people just starting out in life but think of it like this,after 25 years at the same job isnt a man deserving of $75,000 a year?

And here we have the type of thinking that kept me out of unions all my working life. And ... this is exactly the type of thinking that is driving the Big Three out of business.

Nothing based upon productivity. Nothing based upon creating a profit. Nope ... its all about seniority. Hell yeah ... the longer one is on the job, the more one should make ... as long as the survival of the company isn't taken into consideration.

While were at it, let's base promotions on seniority too. That way, the Peter Principle will be in effect and the incompetent, with seniority, will be promoted over someone who has more talent and a better work ethic.

This way, labor can drive profit out of the equation and management can drive labor and the company out of business. And the taxpayer, along with his children, grand children and great grand children are supposed to pay for this crap? Where's the morality in all of this?

Chapter 11 bankruptcy and a renegotiated union contract is the only moral way to go.

Vi

 

[Keenly]

the big three lose over a million each a day....

in lost profits....

they have been for almost a decade now

its their own fucking fault for being so damn stupid