What would you pick led or hps?

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
The Solacure bulb, at 280nm, is on the highest line of UVC/lowest parameter for UVB. It can be very hard on some types of equipment, and you cannot work around it. It should be OFF. Also helps control MOLD, and insects.
 

DanKiller

Well-Known Member
UVB/A tests and outcomes are nothing to rave about, a good solid MH or HPS is delivering the ultimate dank for 30+ years
If you can score the ones without the double glass shielding (old bulbs), you will get higher uvb/a wavelengths, again, won't have any drastic implications, but it might have some degree of effects.
The hirecechy of lights ranging from the most natural to the most artificial:
Sun
Plasma
HIDs
CFL
LEDs
 

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
Why would you want it to cost you more to get less light for a particular wattage use and many missing spectrum bands by using hid or mh. Its clear your going to get more light that is actualy usable by the plant from 600 watt good led than any 600 wat hid or mh. You can adjust the led amount of each wavelenghth or overall colour to what ever you want. Plus all that 600 watts is all going down to the canopy rather than half upwards to the roof. Eg a good 600 watt led set up will put out much higher ppfd (plant usable light) than any hid or mh that i know of.

Also how can herb grown under light that gives it all the wavelengths it needs in near enough the doses it needs similar to the sun give weaker weed than weed grown under something giving like a third of the suns spectrum mostly in the wave length to grow flower mass than potency yet it gives better bud. Makes zero sense. In the age of led some of the clones held that were hitting what ever thc and terapin levels under hid are now hitting higher thc and terapin levels under led.
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
LED does not have as broad of a spectrum vs Halide. A Hortilux Blue goes from 280nm-2000+nm. The best LED have a spectrum at best of 437nm-720nm-750nm.
With maybe a small amount of narrow band UVA/B-IR. But are NOTHING compared to HID.
 
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jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
UVB/A tests and outcomes are nothing to rave about, a good solid MH or HPS is delivering the ultimate dank for 30+ years
If you can score the ones without the double glass shielding (old bulbs), you will get higher uvb/a wavelengths, again, won't have any drastic implications, but it might have some degree of effects.
The hirecechy of lights ranging from the most natural to the most artificial:
Sun
Plasma
HIDs
CFL
LEDs
Longer than that.
I remember when the first Halide 1000w came out, in 1977. It was a bulb that the Navy used on their nuclear subs, to grow veggies, because they would often have no contact with anyone, for months at a time, so they would grow fresh veggies to supplement their diets.
Halide for growing have been around about 47 years.
About 6 months after they released the bulb the Navy used, they came out with a more robust bub. The bulb from the Navy was so fragile, they wouldnt guarantee it would survive shipping.
So they came up with a bulb called the Supernova, and a Hydro System called the Octagarden. I bought both, when they very first came out, but never used the Hydro set up. I just used the 5 gallon containers, and soil.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
LED does not have as broad of a spectrum vs Halide. A Hortilux Blue goes from 280nm-2000+nm. The best LED have a spectrum at best of 437nm-720nm-750nm.
Checked the spectrum on that one and i cant really see it going down to 280nm, major drop off under 400nm. But its got continuous coverage of anything in between while leds + supplement usually has some gaps.
 

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
LED does not have as broad of a spectrum vs Halide. A Hortilux Blue goes from 280nm-2000+nm. The best LED have a spectrum at best of 437nm-720nm-750nm.
Thats just those youve seen. Ive seen single cobs that go far far into deep red and into uva and some uv b. Iv seen cobs were they have tiny diffrent colour chips in ect. Or the cobs got quarter sections. Most of what we see avalable on the comercial growlight market is just the basics due to cost. They have led cobs that are even used in lighthouses due to the lense used being able to mangnifiy the light out much much further. You can stick uvc led chips onto led grow lights if you want but then it comes to cost and life expectancy vs the other led chips. But you can make led much broader than hid. Put up the hid/mh spectrum chart your saying led cant match.
Then how much of it is plant usable light, or are their wavelenghths the plant dont realy use ?
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
MMS says the bulb has been tested from 280nm-2540nm.

The plant receptor at 285nm, is strongly affected by the 280nm band. But the Solacure bulb, has its most power from, 280nm-305nm. I combine Halide/HPS, and UVA/B, with UVA/B specific bulbs.

Here’s an example comparing LED to MH. Most LEDs have the same spectrums with slight variations in how much blue or red spikes are added. A big component is what they are missing, full range UV and Infrared. UV goes from 280-400nm. Infrared is going to be 750+ and spans past 2000nm and beyond on a MH and sunlight. Newer research is proving what we already knew, these longer wavelengths are important for plant metabolic function. They influence the way it uses nutrition and the genetic expressions which will translate to healthy plants and better, more complex flowers.

There’s also new research proving that far red photons drive a heavy amount of photosynthesis. Previous flawed research only looked at isolated wavelengths and their effects, but light should not be isolated, for it all works in tandem together when you have the full spectrum present! Emerson effect is one example. We need to stop destroying light by removing parts of the spectrum including invisible IR, and start moving toward true full spectrum light, as close to sunlight as we can get. UV is important too, the LED UV are missing a majority of the UV spectrum and are often very low power and insignificant. Our MH follows the same UV ratios as the sun!

Infrared gets far too little attention these days. Yet it is responsible for some of the most drastic differences between traditional light sources (HID, Sun, Fluorescent, even Incandescent) and LEDs. LED light lacks these infrared wavelengths. When they use a special IR LED to supplement, they only hit a very narrow wavelength, for example 800-830nm, and are still missing the entire rest of it, so it’s just not the same. This causes a drastically different metabolic function in plants, as many growers see nutrient issues and have to adjust a lot. Humans also benefit from infrared energy from the sun and even from artificial light sources as well. It’s seemingly more harmful to our bodies to have light without infrared compared to light with infrared. This is not stuff I’m making up, it’s all from the latest research from various scientists and doctors. Never before has light without infrared even existed, and now some of us are exposed to a lot of it. While infrared is invisible to our eyes, it does a lot, just as light does. Light influences various processes within our bodies, and it grows plants. But it doesn’t stop at visible light. Some creatures can see UV or IR in the way we see visible light. If we saw IR we would probably understand it’s importance more intuitively. Instead we have to think outside the box. If you want to see the difference between IR and no IR, try two identical grows, one with any LED and one with Metal Halide, and see how your plants respond. Under MH, plants can easily stay healthy in a big range of temperatures similar to how they do outside. Roughly 62-95 degrees f and they’ll stay happy. Under LED, the plants need a very strict 78-85 degrees f environment or you will likely see metabolic issues and deficiencies. You’ll also see much different expression in the finished flowers.
Our lab results show additional cannabinoids and terpenes are only produced under Metal Halide, the most similar to sunlight spectrum for indoor growers!
UV range from 280-400nm but a UV LED is like 365-390nm or similar slices. IR LEDs may be 830nm but the full IR range is a wide span of wavelengths from 800nm past 2000 nanometers. So if you only have a tiny emission that is part of the spectrum, it’s kind of incorrect to call it the full thing. It’s a small percentage of a big picture. If it was painting with colors, it would be like having one shade of a color rather than being able to use all the shades of the color. It’s part of it, not all of it. Ideally, wavelengths wouldn’t be isolated and separated to begin with. When we are dealing with artificial light, things start getting tricky. That’s why a MH bulb is useful for indoor gardening, it’s a super hot mixture of gasses which emits light in a similar spectrum to sunlight, much more similar than any LEDs are currently capable of producing. This includes a lot of Infrared energy, which LED manufacturers think is “inefficiency” but the latest science shows is a fundamentally important part of the light spectrum, and turns out we need it, and plants need it, otherwise things start changing metabolically, and not in a good way.
http://instagr.am/p/C6VIOtDMX8h/
 
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DanKiller

Well-Known Member
∆∆∆
And that ladies and gentlemen is the whole truth about the led scam.
It's changes the morphology of a plant, subsequently the ability to produce essential oils aka resin aka compounds we are used to getting from sun/hid/cfl grows with any plant not just weed.
LEDs are a hoax, a subsidized light that no one wants but is been pushed to our everyday life because of its destructive killing DNA changing properties.
I had the most "advanced" led panel at the time, after seeing what it can do, I dumped it after one cycle and bought a HID and never looked back.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
MMS says the bulb has been tested from 280nm-2540nm.

The plant receptor at 285nm, is strongly affected by the 280nm band. But the Solacure bulb, has its most power from, 280nm-305nm. I combine Halide/HPS, and UVA/B, with UVA/B specific bulbs.

Here’s an example comparing LED to MH. Most LEDs have the same spectrums with slight variations in how much blue or red spikes are added. A big component is what they are missing, full range UV and Infrared. UV goes from 280-400nm. Infrared is going to be 750+ and spans past 2000nm and beyond on a MH and sunlight. Newer research is proving what we already knew, these longer wavelengths are important for plant metabolic function. They influence the way it uses nutrition and the genetic expressions which will translate to healthy plants and better, more complex flowers.

There’s also new research proving that far red photons drive a heavy amount of photosynthesis. Previous flawed research only looked at isolated wavelengths and their effects, but light should not be isolated, for it all works in tandem together when you have the full spectrum present! Emerson effect is one example. We need to stop destroying light by removing parts of the spectrum including invisible IR, and start moving toward true full spectrum light, as close to sunlight as we can get. UV is important too, the LED UV are missing a majority of the UV spectrum and are often very low power and insignificant. Our MH follows the same UV ratios as the sun!

Infrared gets far too little attention these days. Yet it is responsible for some of the most drastic differences between traditional light sources (HID, Sun, Fluorescent, even Incandescent) and LEDs. LED light lacks these infrared wavelengths. When they use a special IR LED to supplement, they only hit a very narrow wavelength, for example 800-830nm, and are still missing the entire rest of it, so it’s just not the same. This causes a drastically different metabolic function in plants, as many growers see nutrient issues and have to adjust a lot. Humans also benefit from infrared energy from the sun and even from artificial light sources as well. It’s seemingly more harmful to our bodies to have light without infrared compared to light with infrared. This is not stuff I’m making up, it’s all from the latest research from various scientists and doctors. Never before has light without infrared even existed, and now some of us are exposed to a lot of it. While infrared is invisible to our eyes, it does a lot, just as light does. Light influences various processes within our bodies, and it grows plants. But it doesn’t stop at visible light. Some creatures can see UV or IR in the way we see visible light. If we saw IR we would probably understand it’s importance more intuitively. Instead we have to think outside the box. If you want to see the difference between IR and no IR, try two identical grows, one with any LED and one with Metal Halide, and see how your plants respond. Under MH, plants can easily stay healthy in a big range of temperatures similar to how they do outside. Roughly 62-95 degrees f and they’ll stay happy. Under LED, the plants need a very strict 78-85 degrees f environment or you will likely see metabolic issues and deficiencies. You’ll also see much different expression in the finished flowers.
Our lab results show additional cannabinoids and terpenes are only produced under Metal Halide, the most similar to sunlight spectrum for indoor growers!
UV range from 280-400nm but a UV LED is like 365-390nm or similar slices. IR LEDs may be 830nm but the full IR range is a wide span of wavelengths from 800nm past 2000 nanometers. So if you only have a tiny emission that is part of the spectrum, it’s kind of incorrect to call it the full thing. It’s a small percentage of a big picture. If it was painting with colors, it would be like having one shade of a color rather than being able to use all the shades of the color. It’s part of it, not all of it. Ideally, wavelengths wouldn’t be isolated and separated to begin with. When we are dealing with artificial light, things start getting tricky. That’s why a MH bulb is useful for indoor gardening, it’s a super hot mixture of gasses which emits light in a similar spectrum to sunlight, much more similar than any LEDs are currently capable of producing. This includes a lot of Infrared energy, which LED manufacturers think is “inefficiency” but the latest science shows is a fundamentally important part of the light spectrum, and turns out we need it, and plants need it, otherwise things start changing metabolically, and not in a good way.
http://instagr.am/p/C6VIOtDMX8h/
If you want to add infrareds to your grow then why not use incandescent/halogen? They have full coverage of the infrared while IR leds only cover a narrow band. It also is very good at hitting those 660-700nm which leds have problems to target due to inefficient diodes in that range.
 

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
∆∆∆
And that ladies and gentlemen is the whole truth about the led scam.
It's changes the morphology of a plant, subsequently the ability to produce essential oils aka resin aka compounds we are used to getting from sun/hid/cfl grows with any plant not just weed.
LEDs are a hoax, a subsidized light that no one wants but is been pushed to our everyday life because of its destructive killing DNA changing properties.
I had the most "advanced" led panel at the time, after seeing what it can do, I dumped it after one cycle and bought a HID and never looked back.
You dint get it, you can change led spectrums to change the morphology of the plant, but not just one way, you can manipulate the structure many ways. You can even get it to mach plant usable light from the sun in the same amounts. You can increase percentage of blue going up by 5% and it will change the plant some what, you can up red in 5% increments and change the plant, youe can do this and break it in to individual frequenceys of the red. You can even get led to match any hid or metal halide you want. Do you guys look at led spectrum charts, ther isnt juat one you can have thousands of combinations any you want. You can even get led with high high cri meaning how true to life colours are under it. The plant dont know if its led or the sun or hid, all the plant knows are all the spectrums of light there needed to push the plant to peak, and when you have this than you can start fine tunning the structure to your individual need by changing the light recipie.
Anyway im still waiting from the chart from someone showing hid or mh at 600watts has a more complete wide band and how much plant usable light is being pushed out in what bands. Lets see. You can get germicidal led so the uvc is coverd and ive seen a led go far far into deep red/ir were it shows brown on the chart
If led was sending us backwards, with the amount of people using them and so many using them comercialy we would see a drop in thc levels/ cannabinoids and terpins ect but were seeing the exact opposite. No point saying my mh 1000k or wat ever, just put the charts up. Most people who have been using hid/mh for years whe changing to led struggle to begin with, dont mean the led is crap. I cant imagine anyone goes to the store or their dealwr and ask before buying was the weed grown with led or hid/mh, so no point in saying mh/hid is consitantly better than led as that would be round yourself or those close to you you know and know exactly how they grow and youd get to smoke their weed. How is it possible for people to say hid/mh is better than led across the board when your only probaly sampling 0.001% of all the led bud grown in the world. Those who are using led and have mastered it and originaly used hid for decades to grow all say ther is no competition. Me personaly can hit easy over a gram a watt all day using led and the bud comes out danker if dryed and cured properly than hid, were as with hid/mh a gram a watt was hard work.
 

tstick

Well-Known Member
Plants are pretty adaptable and will usually grow just fine under all kinds of light if the grower does a good job. I've used HID and I've used LED. I'll have to admit that I think the plants liked the directional-heat they were getting from the unshielded HID bulb(s). That's the thing that's missing. Living things seem to be attracted to warmth. Just put a cat in a room with two different types of lights -one being an HID and the other one being LED and then close the door and come hack in 1/2 hour. I can almost guarantee you that the cat will be sitting under the HID light. When I use my HID bulbs, I just get a sense that the plants like it better -even though the results are pretty much the same between the two types of lights.

Of course, since the HID bulbs get really hot, there needs to be greater caution taken when using them. If you grow in a cool basement, then they can help to warm the space. In a warm attic, LEDs are your friend! :)
 

DanKiller

Well-Known Member
Seems like you didn't read the article but quick to respond without no point really
Read the article.
You can't put all the wavelengths you want in a panel, you need diodes for each wavelength and even if you are able to squeeze all those diodes and reach the numbers they are claiming today (you won't) you will only have room for so much but so little of so much, again taking away from total power of each wavelength for another one, resulting in a totally no efficient light source.
Ah and those diodes still won't be a full complete source as you are just piling different wavelengths next to each other not really making each of them a "sun" like complete source, so some leafs will absorb some wavelengths, depending on location...
The science is bogus, the results on other plants under sun or leds is getting old, (spoiler, sun/like sun light sources is better) no need to explain this further.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Plants are pretty adaptable and will usually grow just fine under all kinds of light if the grower does a good job. I've used HID and I've used LED. I'll have to admit that I think the plants liked the directional-heat they were getting from the unshielded HID bulb(s). That's the thing that's missing. Living things seem to be attracted to warmth. Just put a cat in a room with two different types of lights -one being an HID and the other one being LED and then close the door and come hack in 1/2 hour. I can almost guarantee you that the cat will be sitting under the HID light. When I use my HID bulbs, I just get a sense that the plants like it better -even though the results are pretty much the same between the two types of lights.

Of course, since the HID bulbs get really hot, there needs to be greater caution taken when using them. If you grow in a cool basement, then they can help to warm the space. In a warm attic, LEDs are your friend! :)
Lol, Its been years since i started hearing about your HID loving cat, when do we get to see him?
 

DanKiller

Well-Known Member
Why would that be?
You could, in theory, in practice you will need so much as each diode is tuned to a specific wavelength at a specific intensity (0.2w mostly)
So placing all of those on a panel and getting the same amount of output outta it for each diode to make sure you spread those wavelengths everywhere and not just at some places is gonna cost a lot of power, money and probably heat which just brings us back to the same point we said was no good to begin with (HIDs) and cost pennies.
Look, the best conclusion we got outta leds is that spreading lower levels of light (complete light, not leds) is better than centralized light (HIDs)
If you take that knowledge and apply it to HIDs which are still the only complete package affordable light source there is, you will see great results.
Spreading is key for yeild.
Wanna use a 600w bulb ? Put 2 x 400w
Wanna use 1000w bulb ? Put 3 x 400w or 2 x 600w.
Putting more light spots (like LEDs) leads to a lot better coverage and light penetration rather than putting a stronger single source in the same space.
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
If you want to add infrareds to your grow then why not use incandescent/halogen? They have full coverage of the infrared while IR leds only cover a narrow band. It also is very good at hitting those 660-700nm which leds have problems to target due to inefficient diodes in that range.
Question is, why would you want to add more IR, when the HID, already has all one needs, and no need to supplement? All that would do is add more heat. Id rather add another HID.

Supplemental IR, is probably a good idea, for use with LED. Id also add in the Solacure Flower Power bulb for 280nm-400nm.

The 280nm, is on the LINE of UVB/UVC. Its considered the End of UVC, and the Start, of UVB. And we have noticed a noticeable increase in potency with these bulbs, as have customers. Been using them 8 years.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Question is, why would you want to add more IR, when the HID, already has all one needs, and no need to supplement? All that would do is add more heat. Id rather add another HID.

Supplemental IR, is probably a good idea, for use with LED. Id also add in the Solacure Flower Power bulb for 280nm-400nm.

The 280nm, is on the LINE of UVB/UVC. Its considered the End of UVC, and the Start, of UVB. And we have noticed a noticeable increase in potency with these bulbs, as have customers. Been using them 8 years.
I was off course referring to adding this to a led fixture, indeed no point in adding it to hid.
 

Beeswings

Well-Known Member
Plants are pretty adaptable and will usually grow just fine under all kinds of light if the grower does a good job. I've used HID and I've used LED. I'll have to admit that I think the plants liked the directional-heat they were getting from the unshielded HID bulb(s). That's the thing that's missing. Living things seem to be attracted to warmth. Just put a cat in a room with two different types of lights -one being an HID and the other one being LED and then close the door and come hack in 1/2 hour. I can almost guarantee you that the cat will be sitting under the HID light. When I use my HID bulbs, I just get a sense that the plants like it better -even though the results are pretty much the same between the two types of lights.

Of course, since the HID bulbs get really hot, there needs to be greater caution taken when using them. If you grow in a cool basement, then they can help to warm the space. In a warm attic, LEDs are your friend! :)
Turn the room temp up to 90 degrees and the cat won't be any where near that hid bulb.
 
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