cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Precision munitions get used against military targets of high value.
When the aggressor’s objective is to make the land unlivable, artillery, gravity bombs and the other century-old weapons are just fine.
Hamas offensive against Israel
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When the aggressor’s objective is to make the land unlivable, artillery, gravity bombs and the other century-old weapons are just fine.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Not sure how much value to attach to blaming the US for not addressing Qatar, but it should come to no surprise Qatar ain't the good guys when 6500 immigrant workers die building soccer stadiums for the world cup.
Meanwhile...
"Countries including Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt could supply a combination of blue and green hydrogen to Europe "
Saudi Arabia... nuff said... Egypt, home of Muslim Brotherhood (founded in Egypt in the 1920s, the Brotherhood is one of the most influential Islamist organizations in the the world, mixing religious teaching with political....) and Qatar, sponsor of Muslim Brotherhood and its offspring Hamas.
Now if the population would be better off because of it... no, instead it just makes the rich and powerful in those areas more rich and powerful.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It's interesting that the US maintains relationships with both sides, takes fire for it from the other side and yet, each side and not the US keeps making the situation worse.
The World Cup issue was indicative of ALL the rich gulf states concerning immigrant(slave) labor,they are all shady and were backwaters until the discovery of oil/natural gas. Saudi Arabia is a 2 headed snake,from 9/11,to the murder/dismemberment of Kashoggii,to manipulating OPEC,to funding radical Islam,all the way to the deep shade of Trump/ Kushner dealings.Because of the geo-strategic locale and effect on World economy maintaining diplomacy w/these states is a MUST and at the same time an eery dealing w/the devil feeling.If nuke tech (plants/weapons) ever make their way to this region as the Saudi's are pressing for God/Allah help us.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Interesting option, per-unit sanctions.
”The "Leahy Law" refers to two statutory provisions prohibiting the U.S. from funding a unit of foreign security forces where there is credible information implicating the unit in the commission of gross violations of human rights.”
www.theguardian.com
Could be good for everyone involved if enforced more fanatically.
”The "Leahy Law" refers to two statutory provisions prohibiting the U.S. from funding a unit of foreign security forces where there is credible information implicating the unit in the commission of gross violations of human rights.”
Netanyahu vows to fight US sanctions on IDF unit accused of violations in West Bank
Israeli leaders vow to oppose expected measures under Leahy law against the Netzah Yehuda battalion
www.theguardian.com
Could be good for everyone involved if enforced more fanatically.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
“fanatically” has negative connotations. “Consistently” perhaps.Interesting option, per-unit sanctions.
”The "Leahy Law" refers to two statutory provisions prohibiting the U.S. from funding a unit of foreign security forces where there is credible information implicating the unit in the commission of gross violations of human rights.”
Netanyahu vows to fight US sanctions on IDF unit accused of violations in West Bank
Israeli leaders vow to oppose expected measures under Leahy law against the Netzah Yehuda battalion
Could be good for everyone involved if enforced more fanatically.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Works just fine in UK English (and dutch). Means with more dedication to achieve goals, not necessarily in an unreasonable or emotional manner or any slightest negative connotation.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Turkey halts all trade with Israel over military actions in Gaza
Turkey has announced that it is suspending all imports and exports to Israel over its ongoing military action in Gaza.
apnews.com
For contrast:
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Erdogan's main task is fixing the economy. Because it's needed, but also to stay in power. As the recent election showed, he is losing his grip and now has to choose between losing more to the more liberal flank or please the more conservative right. Stopping the trade with Israel is a sacrifice, both for Turkey and Erdogan himself and shows how far he is willing to go. This is not about doing the right thing.
TheWholeTruth
Well-Known Member
Just got filmed killing unarmed kids didnt they. It was on the news yesterday, the cctv cam from one the building cought all on film
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
who are they and link please?
Sativied
Well-Known Member
"The ICC is the world's first permanent international war crimes court. It 124 member states are obliged to immediately arrest the wanted person if they are on a member state's territory but the court has no means to enforce arrest warrants."
"Israel and its main ally the United States are not members of the ICC, along with China and Russia."
"WAR CRIME ALLEGATIONS
The allegations against Netanyahu and Gallant include bearing responsibility for starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, wilfully causing great suffering and wilful killing or murder as a war crime.
The Hamas leaders face allegations of bearing responsibility for crimes including extermination and murder, the taking of hostages, torture, rape and other acts of sexual violence."
Different charges yet:
“I expect the American administration to condemn the arrest warrants. I believe they will stand behind us,” Lapid says.
I'm not so sure about that. "Condemn" might not be the best way to describe it. Not cooperate probably but in the completely hypothetical situation Netanyahu would be so dumb to travel to one of the 124 member states I don't expect the Biden administration to obstruct given that the majority, especially on the dem side, don't approve of Israel's and Netanyahu's actions. Personally, I don't want him near me... he needs to be removed democratically and tried for his crimes in Israel, including worsening the situation with Gaza to prevent that.
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
i didn't know where to put this, rather here or in the war thread so...
www.cbsnews.com
President of Iran dies in the chopper crash, along with ministers......
Who replaces Iran's President Ebrahim Raisi and what happens next?
Iran's President Ebrahim Raisi was killed in a helicopter crash, but his death is unlikely to spark any political crisis. Here's what happens next.
www.cbsnews.com
President of Iran dies in the chopper crash, along with ministers......
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Guess I was wrong about the 'condemn' part:
www.theguardian.com
“The ICC prosecutor’s application for arrest warrants against Israeli leaders is outrageous. And let me be clear: whatever this prosecutor might imply, there is no equivalence – none – between Israel and Hamas. We will always stand with Israel against threats to its security,” the US president said in a statement."
I haven't read/heard the complete statement from the ICC, I do agree no equivalence should be implied, but, is that the case? Is it not the case that Netanyahu had it coming and they could not issue an arrest for him without doing the same (for different reasons) for the Hamas leaders? After all that was the problem with resolutions against Israel that did not condemn Hamas.
I think the previous and upcoming governments in NL where ICC is located do not agree either. Wilders is super pro-Israel. From 2019:
Not like he could.
‘What’s happening is not genocide’: Biden criticizes ICC for seeking arrest warrants for Israeli officials – as it happened
US president doubles down on support for Israel at Jewish American heritage event, rejecting the ICC request for arrest warrants of Israeli officials
www.theguardian.com
“The ICC prosecutor’s application for arrest warrants against Israeli leaders is outrageous. And let me be clear: whatever this prosecutor might imply, there is no equivalence – none – between Israel and Hamas. We will always stand with Israel against threats to its security,” the US president said in a statement."
I haven't read/heard the complete statement from the ICC, I do agree no equivalence should be implied, but, is that the case? Is it not the case that Netanyahu had it coming and they could not issue an arrest for him without doing the same (for different reasons) for the Hamas leaders? After all that was the problem with resolutions against Israel that did not condemn Hamas.
I think the previous and upcoming governments in NL where ICC is located do not agree either. Wilders is super pro-Israel. From 2019:
Not like he could.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
US House GOP leaders eyeing ICC sanctions bill, source says
From Melanie Zanona (src CNN)
House Republican leaders are looking at putting an International Criminal Court (ICC) sanctions bill on the floor, according to a congressional aide, in response to the ICC’s decision to move ahead with arrest warrants, including for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Specifically, there is talk among top Republicans of modifying an existing bill, sponsored by GOP Rep. Chip Roy of Texas, that would impose sanctions on the ICC if it arrests, investigates, or prosecutes any protected person of the United States or its allies.
But nothing has been finalized yet, and it’s unclear if they will be able to prepare legislation in time for a floor vote this week. The House is only scheduled to be in session for three days this week, and then it will break for the weeklong Memorial Day recess.
I don't know what to think yet of the arrest warrants but will say this: US not being a member of the ICC and having laws regarding attacking NL and sanctioning ICC 'is not a good look'. I'm inclined to think that when the ICC issues an arrest warrant they might very well have valid reasons and be able to prove the allegations. In which case what I think, or the current administration in the US, has no relevance. You cannot sanction the ICC into submission and not upholding international law, that isn't gonna happen.
From Melanie Zanona (src CNN)
House Republican leaders are looking at putting an International Criminal Court (ICC) sanctions bill on the floor, according to a congressional aide, in response to the ICC’s decision to move ahead with arrest warrants, including for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Specifically, there is talk among top Republicans of modifying an existing bill, sponsored by GOP Rep. Chip Roy of Texas, that would impose sanctions on the ICC if it arrests, investigates, or prosecutes any protected person of the United States or its allies.
But nothing has been finalized yet, and it’s unclear if they will be able to prepare legislation in time for a floor vote this week. The House is only scheduled to be in session for three days this week, and then it will break for the weeklong Memorial Day recess.
I don't know what to think yet of the arrest warrants but will say this: US not being a member of the ICC and having laws regarding attacking NL and sanctioning ICC 'is not a good look'. I'm inclined to think that when the ICC issues an arrest warrant they might very well have valid reasons and be able to prove the allegations. In which case what I think, or the current administration in the US, has no relevance. You cannot sanction the ICC into submission and not upholding international law, that isn't gonna happen.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
What gets me, and both sides are fucked, IMHO.
Is? In the above statement, about THOSE THAT ARE PROTECTED... hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I DONT THINK ANYONE SHOULD BE PROTECTED, IF IT CAN BE PROVED, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, THEY VIOLATED INTERNATIONAL LAW, OR COMITTED WAR CRIMES.
To me, its like tRump, trying to argue, he has Absolute Immunity.
Is? In the above statement, about THOSE THAT ARE PROTECTED... hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I DONT THINK ANYONE SHOULD BE PROTECTED, IF IT CAN BE PROVED, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, THEY VIOLATED INTERNATIONAL LAW, OR COMITTED WAR CRIMES.
To me, its like tRump, trying to argue, he has Absolute Immunity.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The Party Of Trump consider laws as weapons to be used against others, laws are to be enforced against those who are powerless or political opponents, and not something they should follow or be held accountable if they break them. As with civil rights, human rights are to be ignored by those in power. That they would hold the ICC in contempt if they disagree with their findings and legal rulings should not surprise.
I'm disappointed but not surprised that Biden supports Netanyahu instead of the ICC. It's clear that he doesn't think human rights are a thing too. I don't think human rights should be applied differently depending on who is an ally to the US, but Biden seems to think so.
GenericEnigma
Well-Known Member
I think the lack of superpowers on the ICC, and the U.S. disregard for its merits, are based strictly on self-interest. After all, if the U.S. or Russia were part, they'd have to give up G.W. and Vladimir. Seems one can't exactly build a nation or an empire without overriding human rights for financial interest, or valuing power over preserving innocents.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with your statement. You are right in that Kissinger-style realpolitik is basically what the US is doing when it devalues the lives and rights of Palestinians in favor of maintaining the alliance with Netanyahu's government. The question I have is, whose self interests does the "US" protect when it neuters international laws regarding human rights? From which, I draw another question: Who are the "US" when its government does that? I feel that I have less in common with GW, Vladimir, Netanyahu and that Saudi butcher and more in common with the people harmed by them.
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hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Is there any actual reporting coming out of Gaza that is not being ok'd by Hammas?
Because I actually trust them less than anything Netanyahu has said, because Hammas are the assholes that burn grandma's alive in their beds and brutalize babies, not letting the Red Cross check on the people they kidnapped, and continual bombing that they are still doing at the Israeli people, lying about how many people are dying, and how they are dying so that they can manufacture rage over the internet.
Maybe I am being naive since I don't know much about Bibi either (other than I think he is a propaganda dickhead avoiding his nation holding him accountable by getting hate mongers to keep him in power), but all of his political opponents have not been shot/thrown off buildings as far as I have seen/heard. But alienating them when Biden is actively trying to help the people in Gaza from being caught up in the war that Hammas kicked back into gear, doesn't seem like I have not seen enough information to think that is a great idea.
And now with Iran losing their president, who was supposed to be taking over for the 85 year old whatever weird shit their leader calls themselves, for the 15 million innocent people living in Isreal just walking away from this seems like a really bad call with all the volatility going on.
Because I actually trust them less than anything Netanyahu has said, because Hammas are the assholes that burn grandma's alive in their beds and brutalize babies, not letting the Red Cross check on the people they kidnapped, and continual bombing that they are still doing at the Israeli people, lying about how many people are dying, and how they are dying so that they can manufacture rage over the internet.
Maybe I am being naive since I don't know much about Bibi either (other than I think he is a propaganda dickhead avoiding his nation holding him accountable by getting hate mongers to keep him in power), but all of his political opponents have not been shot/thrown off buildings as far as I have seen/heard. But alienating them when Biden is actively trying to help the people in Gaza from being caught up in the war that Hammas kicked back into gear, doesn't seem like I have not seen enough information to think that is a great idea.
And now with Iran losing their president, who was supposed to be taking over for the 85 year old whatever weird shit their leader calls themselves, for the 15 million innocent people living in Isreal just walking away from this seems like a really bad call with all the volatility going on.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Israel and Hamas both were charged. It's not a matter of who is best or worst, just who is guilty of war crimes committed against civilians and we aren't talking about hurting people with their words. If one stands behind decisions based upon realpolitik then war crimes are not a consideration.