hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Who is reporting the 'crimes' that are occurring, is it based on information from Hammas? Which crimes are they actually charging Netenyahu with, and does anyone thing he would turn himself in?
Hamas offensive against Israel
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BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
the person who instagate the ICC stuff was Amal Clooney, she is an international lawyer (i think), now where she's getting the info from honestly is a grey area cause personally idk. Trust any info from Hamas or BiBi camp is a crap shoot at best, i know i would trust they're info. And as far as these people turning themselves in, that would be a big NO burger...i don't think they will....
side note: the pier that the international community wanted for aid, is finished and they're already planning to expand it....
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Legal experts, including Amal Clooney, support ICC decision to seek warrants against Israeli, Hamas leaders
From CNN's Ivana Kottasová in London
A group of international legal experts including human rights barrister Amal Clooney and the former president of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, Judge Theodor Meron, has issued a report in support of the decision by the ICC prosecutor Karim Khan to apply for arrest warrants against the top leaders of Hamas and Israel.
The panel was convened by Khan to review the evidence and legal analysis underpinning his application.
They said there were "reasonable grounds to believe" that individuals named in the arrest warrants have committed war crimes or crimes against humanity.
Khan is seeking arrest warrants against Hamas' leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri, who is the leader of the Al Qassem Brigades and is better known as Mohammed Deif, and Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ political leader — over the October 7 attacks into southern Israel.
Khan is also seeking warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant over Israel's military assault in Gaza.
Clooney and Meron were joined by several other renowned legal experts: Lord Justice Fulford who is a former ICC judge; Baroness Helena Kennedy, the director of the International Bar Association's Human Rights Institute; and human rights and international law experts Danny Friedman and Elizabeth Wilmshurst.
They said:
www.theguardian.com
Obviously it needs to happen, but I liked the nation-building thing we thought Afghanistan was. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. Introduce and uphold basic western laws, not sharia crap. And:
That said.... the day I believe the legal experts listed above are incompetent and biased Jew-haters I'm going to take a look at the flat earth stuff people go on about cause then all bets are off. I do not believe "not alienating them", something I find important too, trumps war crimes and crimes to humanity of their leaders. I do think the timing is perhaps not optimal, but I do not agree addressing Israel's and Hamas' leaders on the same day equates them or is somehow wrong or "outrageous".
From CNN's Ivana Kottasová in London
A group of international legal experts including human rights barrister Amal Clooney and the former president of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, Judge Theodor Meron, has issued a report in support of the decision by the ICC prosecutor Karim Khan to apply for arrest warrants against the top leaders of Hamas and Israel.
The panel was convened by Khan to review the evidence and legal analysis underpinning his application.
They said there were "reasonable grounds to believe" that individuals named in the arrest warrants have committed war crimes or crimes against humanity.
Khan is seeking arrest warrants against Hamas' leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri, who is the leader of the Al Qassem Brigades and is better known as Mohammed Deif, and Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ political leader — over the October 7 attacks into southern Israel.
Khan is also seeking warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant over Israel's military assault in Gaza.
Clooney and Meron were joined by several other renowned legal experts: Lord Justice Fulford who is a former ICC judge; Baroness Helena Kennedy, the director of the International Bar Association's Human Rights Institute; and human rights and international law experts Danny Friedman and Elizabeth Wilmshurst.
They said:
I don't care for a Palestinian state. I said this below several times, before this thread:
Salman Rushdie says a Palestinian state formed today would be ‘Taliban-like’
Novelist, who teaches at New York University, says he finds it strange that progressive students currently ‘kind of support a fascist terrorist group’
www.theguardian.com
Obviously it needs to happen, but I liked the nation-building thing we thought Afghanistan was. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. Introduce and uphold basic western laws, not sharia crap. And:
Right. As they've been doing for years, hardening Israelis who, as they should, refuse to be tolerant towards those who don't tolerate their existence. I'd go scorch-the-world-ape-shit on our neighbors if they'd go October 7th on my imaginary tribe.
That said.... the day I believe the legal experts listed above are incompetent and biased Jew-haters I'm going to take a look at the flat earth stuff people go on about cause then all bets are off. I do not believe "not alienating them", something I find important too, trumps war crimes and crimes to humanity of their leaders. I do think the timing is perhaps not optimal, but I do not agree addressing Israel's and Hamas' leaders on the same day equates them or is somehow wrong or "outrageous".
That kinda reads like it's from 2023 when Hamas actually still controlled all of Gaza. Given the number of journalists killed by Israeli attacks on Gaza I don't think it's 'the' question to ask right now.
May I suggest Amanpour's interview with the prosecutor. I'm watching it right now on repeat:
Sativied
Well-Known Member
And to quickly answer your question:
"causing extermination ("that is mass killing, different than genocide"), causing starvation, war crimes, crimes towards humanity, including blocking humanitarian aid."
No catpiss as we say. These people at the ICC don't go over one-day ice as we say too.
Biden responded: “this is not genocide”. The prosecutor hasn’t claimed it is. He says genocide requires intend, intend to genocide specifically.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Blocking medical and food supplies for no good reason. I don't think that's disputed by anybody, including Israel and it's a war crime. Bombing hospitals and bombing apartment buildings without precautions to avoid civilian casualties. That's a war crime.
So there is that.
INSKEEP: The prosecutor adds that Prime Minister Netanyahu and his defense minister are responsible for crimes, including starvation and intentionally causing deaths in Gaza.
Not to mention crimes by settlers against Palestinians in territories occupied by Israel in which the IDF look the other way.
Israel is behaving like a fascist shit show. Saying that does not mean Hamas is innocent, just saying that Israel government has much to answer for. And Joe Biden isn't doing nearly enough to get those answers.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I.C.C. Warrant Request Appears to Shore Up Domestic Support for Netanyahu
“The Hypocrisy of The Hague,” read the front page of one mainstream daily that has often been critical of Israel’s prime minister.
I.C.C. Warrant Request Appears to Shore Up Domestic Support for Netanyahu
“The Hypocrisy of The Hague,” read the front page of one mainstream daily that has often been critical of Israel’s prime minister.
The article claims the "Hypocrisy of the Hague" is a stroke of good luck for Netanyahu but it sounds to me like a temporary change in temperature compared to the political climate that is grinding down Netanyahu's political support.
In the hours and days before, Mr. Netanyahu had appeared embattled, both domestically and internationally.
The Israeli public had become increasingly frustrated with the government’s failure, over seven months, to achieve its stated war goals of eliminating Hamas and bringing home the 128 hostages who remain in Gaza, alive and dead. Mr. Netanyahu’s emergency war cabinet was on the brink of falling apart.
Under pressure from all sides, Netanyahu refuses to change course in Gaza
As the ICC seeks an arrest warrant for Netanyahu, critics in Israel say he is prioritizing his political survival over Israel’s hostages and the war effort.
Netanyahu and his government do not have a plan for ending this thing. Assuming they get to a point where they can claim Hamas has been eradicated, then what? They don't plan to occupy Gaza, they don't have a partner who will administer it and they have done nothing to win the hearts and minds, much less cooperation from the Gazans themselves, more like undying animosity is the harvest Israel will reap from their actions. Packing Netanyahu into a crate with food, water a bucket and mailing him to The Hague might be the best outcome for everyone, including the people Israel.
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
Some relevant facts:
- Whether the arrest warrants will actually be issued will be up to a panel of judges. Based on evidence, not politics.
- Experts think it's near certain the warrants for the Hamas leaders will be issued. Not as much consensus about Netanyahu's and the defense minister, but, it would be a first. ICC judges have never rejected an application for arrest warrants. Because again, they don't go over one-day ice, the prosecutor wouldn't request it without a ton of of evidence.
Prosecutor Khan: “This is not a witch hunt, this is not some kind of emotional reaction to noise. It's a forensic process that is expected of us as international prosecutors, as an independent court, to build evidence that is solid that will not dissolve in the courtroom.”
Imo, nobody really expected Netanyahu to turn himself in, nor even likely to be arrested (that usually requires support from the US). It's effectively more like being persona non grata in up to 123 nations.
- Whether the arrest warrants will actually be issued will be up to a panel of judges. Based on evidence, not politics.
- Experts think it's near certain the warrants for the Hamas leaders will be issued. Not as much consensus about Netanyahu's and the defense minister, but, it would be a first. ICC judges have never rejected an application for arrest warrants. Because again, they don't go over one-day ice, the prosecutor wouldn't request it without a ton of of evidence.
Prosecutor Khan: “This is not a witch hunt, this is not some kind of emotional reaction to noise. It's a forensic process that is expected of us as international prosecutors, as an independent court, to build evidence that is solid that will not dissolve in the courtroom.”
Imo, nobody really expected Netanyahu to turn himself in, nor even likely to be arrested (that usually requires support from the US). It's effectively more like being persona non grata in up to 123 nations.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Thank you, it is so vague to not really say what's up. Because pretty much any nation at war fits that category. October 7th makes sense, because it was a specific attack where Hammas purposefully targeted citizens when they burned live grandmothers in their beds. But just the wide open timeframe of all of it with Bibi seems a bit off, unless they have specific dates of the attacks and there is not a valid explanation for it it seems like spaghetti against the wall.
I don't mind them bringing charges, but to determine that somehow a third nation that is not a part of it outside of supporting their ally when they responded to an attack that continues, is where I start to waffle on being outraged by what Biden said. This is a very complex situation that we don't know shit really about much outside of what Hammas is allowing to filter out, Bibi is trying to spin into somehow avoiding jail time, and Biden is trying to ride the fence as long as it takes to bring this bullshit to a end.I don't care for a Palestinian state. I said this below several times, before this thread:
Salman Rushdie says a Palestinian state formed today would be ‘Taliban-like’
Novelist, who teaches at New York University, says he finds it strange that progressive students currently ‘kind of support a fascist terrorist group’
Obviously it needs to happen, but I liked the nation-building thing we thought Afghanistan was. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. Introduce and uphold basic western laws, not sharia crap. And:
Right. As they've been doing for years, hardening Israelis who, as they should, refuse to be tolerant towards those who don't tolerate their existence. I'd go scorch-the-world-ape-shit on our neighbors if they'd go October 7th on my imaginary tribe.
That said.... the day I believe the legal experts listed above are incompetent and biased Jew-haters I'm going to take a look at the flat earth stuff people go on about cause then all bets are off. I do not believe "not alienating them", something I find important too, trumps war crimes and crimes to humanity of their leaders. I do think the timing is perhaps not optimal, but I do not agree addressing Israel's and Hamas' leaders on the same day equates them or is somehow wrong or "outrageous".
That kinda reads like it's from 2023 when Hamas actually still controlled all of Gaza. Given the number of journalists killed by Israeli attacks on Gaza I don't think it's 'the' question to ask right now.
May I suggest Amanpour's interview with the prosecutor. I'm watching it right now on repeat:
View attachment 5394874
As for how to fix it, Israeli people need to get out of the grip of hate that we are seeing too many of our brainwashed being vulnerable to becoming immune to that has allowed these dictators (and orange would be ones) take advantage of to maintain/gain power.
My bet is that that pier is how Gaza gets rebuilt, so some heavy machinery is going to need to be able to travel over it.
In that case should they also charge Egypt for blocking aid too?
I remember the one whatever nut job group of hate mongers were shooting missiles out of it and it exploded on the hospital they were hiding behind/in. Also how do we really know that the citizens were not given info if Hammas is holding everyone hostage in Gaza?
I am not saying that there should not be very real investigations/charges, we really do need to do the better job as a world with this kind of shit. Innocent people keep getting killed because a handful of bigots have been running shit for..ever.
And of course Isreal is acting like a fascist shit show, they have a racist fascist regime in charge of their nation atm, and were given a reason (which I wouldn't put past Bibi for helping allow happen) to do the things they have been wanting to do for a very long time.
And again I am not saying that they should not bring charges against Bibi, but it is just cosplay to think that it is going to do shit to stop the fascist dictator from his fucked up 9/11 response.
How do you know what Biden is doing, just because we don't have him out there pumping his fist every time he says anything doesn't mean he is not trying to get these poor people out from under the thumb of dictators.
Bibi was on MSNBC talking about how they have allowed trucks, airdrops, pier, etc, which if they were actively trying to starve them they would not have done. Now maybe that is bullshit, but all of those things he lists are things that Biden/America was calling for.
I just heard Blinken ( I will need to watch his entire statement) say how this was counterproductive to negotiations that are currently occurring.
Again fuck Bibi, I hope he ends up in prison for his crimes, but not willing to take the word Hamas allowed to filter out being the reason is not something I would be willing to jump on. Especially when it is being used to troll Biden.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
In that case should they also charge Egypt for blocking aid too?
Egypt is not the military aggressor who is creating the need for aid, so, no. They are a sovereign nation and have the right to deny access to their territory no matter how heinous the result.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Even Joe Biden has said that Israel is responsible to avoid civilian casualties and it doesn't matter if Hamas is over-reporting, clearly the number of civilian casualties is too large to claim Israel has taken even a modicum of care.
Regarding hospitals, yes there was one incident where a Hamas missile went out of control and landed amidst a crowd outside of the hospital. There is another incident where Israel practically flattened a hospital, claimed they found evidence it was being used by Hamas and later on it turned out there was no evidence. Fog of war and all that. There is this from WaPo:
Of the 36 hospitals in Gaza tracked by the U.N. humanitarians affairs office, only four have not been reported damaged by munitions, raided by the Israel Defense Forces or gone out of service over more than seven months of war, The Post found. Of those, two — Kuwait and al-Helal al-Emirati hospitals — are in Rafah. Earlier this month, al-Najjar Hospital, also in the southern city where Israel is expanding its assault, was the latest to be shuttered.
Israel has made hospitals a key target of its military campaign in Gaza, damaging or destroying the Strip’s most important medical facilities after claiming Hamas used them for militant activity. (In the Hayfa attack, for instance, an IDF spokesperson said the strike was against a military target inside the building.) In other instances, hospitals and clinics were struck as part of the fighting between the Israeli military and Hamas.
They have been damaged by Israeli ground and air bombardment, and also by munitions fired by Palestinian militant groups, including rockets falling back onto Gaza’s territory, as appeared to be the case at al-Ahli Hospital in October. The source of damage by munitions is often not possible to confirm because The Post and other media outlets are not able to enter the Strip.
So, say what you will. Demand evidence that requires more effort than I want to put forth. I'm just saying, what I've read tells me that there is a shit show that Israel is responsible for, not all the shit show is on Israel and maybe only a portion is theirs with the rest falling on Hamas -- who I also condemn. Regarding what Israel has done, it doesn't matter what Hamas did. Israel is not taking proper care to protect Palestinian civilian lives and that's what I'm objecting to. If the ICC has evidence of war crimes, their say so is enough for me.
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
The most basic and fundamental law of western democracies, example being that it appears first in each of the The Constitution of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, as well as the Constitution of the United States: freedom of discrimination in regards to religion, amongst a few other freedoms we all have in common. So many other rights require that fundamental freedom of, and from, religion. Since the elections of November 2022, I see actions of a government far closer to Sharia than to basic western law.
From June 2023:
From April 2024:
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
The aid would be needed there regardless, I don't see how them closing their borders to deliveries is somehow different from Isreal's border being closed.
"Even" Joe Biden like he is somehow everything bad that has ever been said about him.
I disagree. You really think that in as small a area that Gaza is, that if Isreal would really be willing to kill s many innocent people to get to the murderous terrorists holding them hostage that the number of the dead would not be far greater?
They have obviously shown at the very least a 'modicum' of care. Have they been completely shitty and deserve to have scrutiny, yes of course.
None of that says that Hamas was not using those hospitals as shields to attack from. Terrorists in buildings are dangerous.
I think again that you are basing the last part on evidence from Hamas. People who burned grandmothers alive, raped women, killed children and brutalized babies. I wouldn't trust them at all, and I also don't put my faith in the ICC to know enough to not fuck shit up when people behind the scenes are trying like hell to stop the violence happening to innocent citizens.
Also I am far more careful to differentiate between Netanyahu and his far right racist government and Israel. Especially when using Hamas and differentiating them from the Palestinians.
And again, I am not saying that the scrutiny of these 'warrants' are not legit.
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
Israel has a legal obligation being they are the occupying power.
.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
it seems to me that we are differing on maters that are subjective, so I'm willing to just say that's your opinion and not mine but I don't think you are wrong.
Except for this bit:
Also I am far more careful to differentiate between Netanyahu and his far right racist government and Israel. Especially when using Hamas and differentiating them from the Palestinians.
I'm Pro-Palestinian AND Pro-Israeli but oppose the far right hate groups on both sides, whatever one wants to call them.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Prosecutor Khan seems very certain of his case. He says he went beyond what would normally be reasonable, he knew he had to be able to "bring it home". Constantly restating it will be determined by the judges (pre-trial). Comes across as someone with a high dose of integrity. It's not relevant what we get through the media and how much Hamas influences that, only hard evidence matters and obviously that is not based on Hamas' info. Gaza is tiny and large part is under control of IDF. The suggestion that Hamas control everything coming out of Gaza has no basis in reality. The ICC knew this would cause backlash but works without fear or favor, despite US trying to obstruct that principle with the Hague Invasion Act. I see zero reason to doubt their intentions or competence. It's not like McConnel said a kangaroo court, on the very contrary.
The prosecutor requested the arrest warrants, something that rarely happens as they take on very few cases, and then the evidence, not Hamas propaganda, will show or not to the judges they will issue it. To suggest from here they don't have enough evidence is a complete assumption that cannot possibly be substantiated with facts or precedent.
The prosecutor requested the arrest warrants, something that rarely happens as they take on very few cases, and then the evidence, not Hamas propaganda, will show or not to the judges they will issue it. To suggest from here they don't have enough evidence is a complete assumption that cannot possibly be substantiated with facts or precedent.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I'm getting the point. If you're suggesting Israel too needs some more of that western law instilled and applied than sure, no argument there. They don't even have a constitution. But that "whatabout Israel" doesn't change the facts laid out by Salman regarding a Palestinian state and my comment about nation-building.
Our freedom of religion was all about keeping protestants and catholics from bashing each others heads in, it was meant to grant freedom from the hold someone else (Catholics down south or protestant monarchs) wanted on you in the name of religion, against the discrimination by religious against religious, it doesn't mean you can violate other human rights, whip your wife, nor violate the rest of the equally important equality clause. It's a historic artifact and not the nr 1 law.
Let me drop some more history... re: the same guy that pioneered the modern ideas of a tolerant society with various religions.
The international laws violated, especially those regarding military, are too the fruits of that (Portugese and Spanish catholics vs British and Dutch protestants) based on the work of Hugo Grotius, the greatest Hagenees ( = person from the Hague), published in 1609 (Mare Liberum (The Freedom of the Sea)) and De jure belli ac pacis libri tres (Three Books on the Law of War and Peace). The Hauge is the cradle. Grotius heavily influenced John Locke, who went on to inspire people like Voltair as well as the founding fathers of the US establishing America's First Principles. 'Jefferson derived the most famous ideas in the Declaration of Independence from the writings of English philosopher John Locke.' That's what the ICC is about, they do nothing 'vague', they focus on the gravest of crimes only and to suggest they would do so without evidence or based on hamas propaganda is just inappropriate and offensive.
Khan:
"This is not a witch hunt. This is not some kind of emotional reaction to noise. We've been criticized for going too slowly, criticized for going too fast. It's a forensic process that is expected of us as international prosecutors, as an independent court to build evidence that is solid, that will not dissolve in the courtroom, and that's what we've done.Today is the fulfillment of that first stage, this first round of applications in which we say we have done our job. We now give it to the judges to scrutinize. So, it's not against any people, and it's not against for any interest. It's simply because if we don't apply the law equally, we're going to disintegrate as a species."
Don't know about 'as a species' part but definitely as a western liberal society as we've known it since Hugo.
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
Must-watch horse's mouth:
And this one that came after talks a lot of sense too
And this one that came after talks a lot of sense too
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I think it might be worth rereading what I wrote, because I don't think it meant what you took it as. That is one of the hard things with communicating online, and one of the reasons trolling is so effective, people get programmed into the trap of missed context.
I meant more that with the racism that is the entire reason that propaganda is so triggering and alienating one another, and it is worth taking the time to not use Isreal in what you wrote and point out that it is Netanyahu and his extremist politicians and not 'Isreal' that is rampaging through Gaza. Just like it is Hamas that is firing rockets at the Isreali troops and then strapping hospitals/school/innocent people to themselves like some messed up 'safe' spot in a game of tag, and not the Palestinians.
Yeah of course, they are all just people at the end of the day, and I do truly wish each and everyone of them the best life possible. And think that it is horrible what they have and are going through.
We will see how it goes. It is good that people are out there looking into everything and willing to try to hold people accountable. Hopefully they are not just another troll willing to blow up their careers to sell a bullshit 'both sides' narrative.
Are you saying that someone suggested this?
I have said that they are flat out lying and using their peoples' suffering to sell their narrative though. And outside of what Isreal is letting out, and the very little other information not being filtered through Hamas that is able to get out that what we are seeing is well cherry picked.
What are they actively doing to try to obstruct this?
Calling something out as being very unproductive to ending this war I am not sure counts as that.
Yeah fuck McConnel, that dickhead blocked Americans from being protected from the Russian propaganda attack when we found out they were attacking our elections.
Good.
I would suggest that in a time that the world is under attack from trolls at all levels strategically placed to cause as much noise as possible, and seeing a handful of 'well respected middle of the road' prosecutors here in America blow up their careers to sell a 'both sides' narrative, and then Biden's response to this being edited down should be looked at a little closer before their 'feels' about it one way or the other kick in.
Thank you.
My guess is that the paragraph prior is where they would disagree with the war crime being committed as a occupying force in southern Gaza, but im sure they are ready for that argument. Hopefully this ends soon and the people responsible can be held accountable.
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
Seems there is some logistic problems with the aid coming in.......
i ran across another article that said some of the aid was also stolen, hey when your desperate you'll do anything to feed your family right....
also:
The Palestinian Authority and Hamas both welcomed on Wednesday the recognition of a Palestinian state by Ireland, Spain and Norway.
^this is gonna complicate things internationally....
i ran across another article that said some of the aid was also stolen, hey when your desperate you'll do anything to feed your family right....
also:
The Palestinian Authority and Hamas both welcomed on Wednesday the recognition of a Palestinian state by Ireland, Spain and Norway.
^this is gonna complicate things internationally....
Sativied
Well-Known Member
I doubt anything fruitful will come from dissecting your post and answering questions to which the answers are clearly in previous posts, and merely risks getting this thread locked, so I'll do this just once. The answer to your question above:
It's a non-disputable fact Hamas can't be trusted. This has no bearing at the topic at hand and is irrelevant to the ICC's actions and evidence gathering process. It's also a non-disputable fact Hamas' attackers behave like animals. Reiterating the burned grandmas suggests it's relevant, while it's not. It gave Israel the right to attack, it does not put Nethanyahu above the law.
McConnel being a dickhead isn't relevant either, it's his comment that it's a kangaroo court I referenced. Kangaroo courts do something like both sides trolls, throwing spaghetti at the wall, selling narratives.... politics. That's some courts in the US, that's not the ICC. It would cease to exists near instantly. There's no reason or precedent to think it is doing any of that, that's just pretend, to create a narrative, a spin, yours. The international community, legal experts from all colors and flavors, the ICC, *I*, we are not attacking Biden, we are not trolling a both sides story (I am too pro-israel and more reluctantly pro-Palestine), we are extremely dissappointed by Biden's and Blinken's knee-jerk responses and poor arguments that will never ever be considered valid reasonable responses at something like the ICC. Nobody suggest outrage to Biden's comments, that's the world upsidedown, it was Biden who claimed it's outrageous. Which is like cherrypicking from the bible if you understand your history and how we and the US came to be...
The answer to your other question: "What are they actively doing to try to obstruct this?" is in the first 5 words where you cut off my quote, the remaining part of this sentence.