Noob Super Soil Recipe Questions

[FmSwayze]

I used coco my first organic run, everything ran smooth til the 3rd week of flower a buncha problems ensued. Id get a peatbased base like pro mix or get some kinda soil to start.

Peat and coco are the same, so I'm not sure why folks say that.

 

[4Sku2nkd0]

Peat and coco are the same, so I'm not sure why folks say that.

Just going by experience, was tryin to mimick mr canucks. Grabbed the big bags of Gaia grow and bloom used the worm castings.at the same time gave my bro just the dry amendments and worm castings on a test plant (he was in promix) my crop crashed.. his final product was indistinguishable from the salt based fert program abeit he yielded less with the organic

 

[_EQ]

Just going by experience, was tryin to mimick mr canucks. Grabbed the big bags of Gaia grow and bloom used the worm castings.at the same time gave my bro just the dry amendments and worm castings on a test plant (he was in promix) my crop crashed.. his final product was indistinguishable from the salt based fert program abeit he yielded less with the organic

This could be complete hearsay but I’ve seen people talk about Mr.Canucks on a few forums and on here that say he’s a fraud so I’m not sure what to believe lol. Some say he swaps plants out during the end roll some say his Gaia green methods work.

 

[4Sku2nkd0]

This could be complete hearsay but I’ve seen people talk about Mr.Canucks on a few forums and on here that say he’s a fraud so I’m not sure what to believe lol. Some say he swaps plants out during the end roll some say his Gaia green methods work.

Sucked cuz I was trying to sell him on organics.. I personally was claiming better terps etc.. I switched to a basic two part salt base fert when I couldn’t tell the difference.. Would still love to dial in organics though..

 

[_EQ]

Sucked cuz I was trying to sell him on organics.. I personally was claiming better terps etc.. I switched to a basic two part salt base fert when I couldn’t tell the difference.. Would still love to dial in organics though..

Absolutely, I’m still so green when it comes to this that I don’t have the experience to say whether one has better terps or potency etc. than the other. All I can say is that a number of ppl both online and in person vouch for organics vs salts so I’m willing to try and see for myself! At least you can keep trying and find a system that you can sell on organics.

 

[curious2garden]

Peat and coco are the same, so I'm not sure why folks say that.

Peat and coco are different.
Coco is coconut husk fiber.
Peat is an accumulation of partially decayed vegetation or organic matter. It is unique to natural areas called peatlands, bogs, mires, moors, or muskegs.[1][2] Sphagnum moss, also called peat moss, is one of the most common components in peat, although many other plants can contribute.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat

A big difference for growing is peat retains more moisture. I hope that helps.

 

[green_machine_two9er]

Peat and coco are the same, so I'm not sure why folks say that.

Yes and bananas and pomegranate are the same too.

 

[green_machine_two9er]

Peat and coco are different.
Coco is coconut husk fiber.
Peat is an accumulation of partially decayed vegetation or organic matter. It is unique to natural areas called peatlands, bogs, mires, moors, or muskegs.[1][2] Sphagnum moss, also called peat moss, is one of the most common components in peat, although many other plants can contribute.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat

A big difference for growing is peat retains more moisture. I hope that helps.

Thanks for the good info!

 

[FmSwayze]

Peat and coco are different.
Coco is coconut husk fiber.
Peat is an accumulation of partially decayed vegetation or organic matter. It is unique to natural areas called peatlands, bogs, mires, moors, or muskegs.[1][2] Sphagnum moss, also called peat moss, is one of the most common components in peat, although many other plants can contribute.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat

A big difference for growing is peat retains more moisture. I hope that helps.

Peat moss and coco coir are both soil media used for potted plants that have different properties:
Water retention
Coco coir is less hydrophobic than peat moss and holds moisture better. Coco coir also releases water as plants need it. Peat moss, however, can be difficult to water once it dries out.
Sustainability
Coco coir is more sustainable than peat moss because coconuts are easily replenishable, while peat bogs take centuries to recover.
Nutrients
Coco coir is naturally high in potassium and phosphorus, so it doesn't need additional nutrients like peat moss does.
pH level
Peat moss is acidic, with a pH level of 3.3–4.4, while coco coir is more neutral, with a pH level of 5.2–6.8.
Durability
Coco coir can be washed and reused after a gardening project, while peat moss can't be spoiled after use. Coco coir also decays more slowly than peat moss, so it provides structure to soil longer

They found that coir performed on par with peat. Coir has proven to hold moisture well, wet more easily than peat, drain well, decompose more slowly and withstand compression better than peat. Plus coir dust does not have the small sticks and possible seeds that peat has.

A significant difference between coco peat and soil lies in the nutrient content. Soil is rich in nutrients while coco peat is unfertilized and you need to add nutrients to make it fertile. However, plants grow healthier in coco peat compared to soil

I know how to copy and paste as well. That was not my point. Both of these mediums are inert, both have to be amended with fertilizer. That is what I was saying, as in they are the same.

 

[curious2garden]

Coco coir is less hydrophobic than peat moss and holds moisture better. Coco coir also releases water as plants need it. Peat moss, however, can be difficult to water once it dries out.

In the decade I've been in coco that's not been my experience at all. I came from a mixed (coco/peat mix) prior to that and started in NFT rails. Anyway I'm really high right now so I'll circle back to make sure I'm reading this right good topic and good morning! I'll come back and edit this post ;D

Back, ok that is exactly opposite my experience. Peat retains moisture, coco doesn't. That's why you can over water to your hearts content in coco but if you did the same in peat you'd drown your plants. Coco doesn't hold and release water that's peat. So I read it right it's just opposite my experience.

Dry nutrients release upon watering. So when your plants are young and require light daily watering you can get away with amending coco with dry nutrients and watering. But once plants are larger and you're watering twice a day or more you rapidly burn them. It's why you can't let coco dry out. The salts dry and will burn your roots too. So coco must be watered and if you don't, you get burn and if you do you overfeed them, sometimes to the point of death. So to successfully do a coco/dry salt nutrient mix you'd have to parse out the nutrients so you weren't giving them a high dose when watering 2-3 times a day. Which negates the rational of making it easier to care for.

That's why some of us run lower EC's. We water a lot because coco can take it. Hopefully that makes some sense LOL

Nota bene: Once you amend coco with organic material then all bets are off. Then it becomes part of a soil mix and that's not what I'm discussing.

 

[FmSwayze]

Absolutely, I’m still so green when it comes to this that I don’t have the experience to say whether one has better terps or potency etc. than the other. All I can say is that a number of ppl both online and in person vouch for organics vs salts so I’m willing to try and see for myself! At least you can keep trying and find a system that you can sell on organics.

Same. But for me it's water and go! I love jacks 321 but man my time and space is limited so I will get this dry amendment game locked in. Growdaddy? Something like thst, is just like Canucks with Gaia green. Integrity is huge, so you really don't know if someone has the fix in. But regardless imma run it until I create a recipe that is sustainable. The OP amendment list is admirable, I wish I had the time.

 

[_EQ]

Same. But for me it's water and go! I love jacks 321 but man my time and space is limited so I will get this dry amendment game locked in. Growdaddy? Something like thst, is just like Canucks with Gaia green. Integrity is huge, so you really don't know if someone has the fix in. But regardless imma run it until I create a recipe that is sustainable. The OP amendment list is admirable, I wish I had the time.

Yeah I couldn’t sleep last night so I updated it even further lol! I’ll have to watch GrowDaddys stuff. I know someone here in MA that operates a pretty large scale Grow who sells to dispos, that uses jacks and rockwool. Definitely some of the best flower I’ve ever seen. They cold cure too? That’s still new to me also. Not sure how I feel about freeze dried weed lmao.

 

[FmSwayze]

In the decade I've been in coco that's not been my experience at all. I came from a mixed (coco/peat mix) prior to that and started in NFT rails. Anyway I'm really high right now so I'll circle back to make sure I'm reading this right good topic and good morning! I'll come back and edit this post ;D

Back, ok that is exactly opposite my experience. Peat retains moisture, coco doesn't. That's why you can over water to your hearts content in coco but if you did the same in peat you'd drown your plants. Coco doesn't hold and release water that's peat. So I read it right it's just opposite my experience.

Dry nutrients release upon watering. So when your plants are young and require light daily watering you can get away with amending coco with dry nutrients and watering. But once plants are larger and you're watering twice a day or more you rapidly burn them. It's why you can't let coco dry out. The salts dry and will burn your roots too. So coco must be watered and if you don't, you get burn and if you do you overfeed them, sometimes to the point of death. So to successfully do a coco/dry salt nutrient mix you'd have to parse out the nutrients so you weren't giving them a high dose when watering 2-3 times a day. Which negates the rational of making it easier to care for.

That's why some of us run lower EC's. We water a lot because coco can take it. Hopefully that makes some sense LOL

Nota bene: Once you amend coco with organic material then all bets are off. Then it becomes part of a soil mix and that's not what I'm discussing.

Organics
Noob Super Soil Recipe Questions

This is the topic. I think you mean well, but your off here. It's not right or wrong but fact we are talking organics and super soil.

 

[curious2garden]

Organics
Noob Super Soil Recipe Questions

This is the topic. I think you mean well, but your off here. It's not right or wrong but fact we are talking organics and super soil.

If you'd like I can delete my posts LOL but yeah that's me I even mentioned it was out of my depth. Just wasn't reading the topic, oops, thanks Fm

Nota bene: Once you amend coco with organic material then all bets are off. Then it becomes part of a soil mix and that's not what I'm discussing.

 

[_EQ]

Updated List


Organic Soil Recipes


Super Soil lngredients

• Earth Worm Castings 30-60lbs (source(macro), source of micro nutrients + microbes and beneficial bacterias, slow release, soil builder)
• Fish Bone Meal 2-5 lbs ( N,P + Ca source slow release + trace micro nutrients )
• Fish Meal (N+P Source, food for microbial life in soil)
• Dolomite lime (ph buffer , Ca + Mg source)
• Oyster Shell Flour ( Dolomite Lime alternative, Ca source, Ph buffer, pest reduction (chitin), nitrate intake, flour provides faster Ca intake than crushed shells, aeration + drainage)
• Crab meal ( N+P source , chitin for biopesticide, Ca source, essential trace minerals)
• Blood Meal ( High N source, granular - slow, powdered - fast, promotes beneficial bacteria growth, accelerates organic matter decomposition)
• Kelp Meal (K source (light), beneficial enzymes, microbes, trace minerals, growth regs, vitamins)
• Rock Phosphate (P source, slow release long term supply)
• Bone Meal ( NP source short term supply)
• Azomite ( High trace minerals, rare earth minerals, good for root growth + germination, micronutrient source)
• Glacial rock dust (increases P availability, micronutrient source, soil structure enhanced)
• Epsom salt ( High source of Mg + S)
• Humic Acid ( allows for nutrie nt and mineral uptake at all stages, stimulates root and plant growth)
• Fulvic Acid ( Chelator, along with Humic acid aids in mineral and nutrient breakdown and uptake)
• Feather Meal (High N source, slow release)
• Seabird Guano ( High NPK + Ca source, with added bacterial activity in soil, Fast release) NPK Values vary
• Bat Guano (High NPK source + micronutrients, Fast release) NPK Values vary
• Neem Seed Meal (NPK source, natural pesticide)
• Langbeinite ( High K source + micro Mg + S)
• Greensand (Slow Release K source + trace minerals and drainage)
• BioChar (soil builder, nutrient leaching prevention)
• Seaweed Extract ( Fast acting K source, water soluble)
• Mined Gypsum ( Fast acting Ca Source, PM, bud rot, black spot mold resistance)

Recipe #1

Soil Structure Sources

• EWC 30-60lbs
• Greensand (drainage + aeration, K Source - slow (very slow years))
• Glacial Rock Dust (trace minerals, micro nutrient source, increased P availability, soil texture, drainage + aeration)
• Oyster Shell Flour ( PH Buffer, Fast Ca Source, aeration + drainage, Chitjn)
• Crushed Ouster Shells ( PH buffer, Ca source, microbe life, Chitin)
• Dolomite Lime ( PH buffer, Ca + Mg source)
• Crab Meal (NP Source, Micro nutrient source + Chitin for bio pesticide)
• BioChar (soil enhancement, water retention, texture builder, aeration + more)
• Mined Gypsum (Ca source, drainage, aeration)
• DE (insecticide, silica source)
• Peat
• Perlite
• Peat Moss

Nitrogen Sources

• Feather Meal (12-0-0 slow release)
• Blood Meal (12-0-0 fast release in water soluble form)

Phosphorus Sources

• Seabird Guano (0-11-0 Indonesian, slow release)
• Bat Guano ( High P fruit (Jamaican) eating only 0-5/9-0 slow release)
• Rock Phosphate (0-3-0 slow release)

Potassium Sources

• Langbeinite (0-0-22 slow release, contains Mg, Ca)
• Greensand (0-0-0.2 slow release, more of a soil builder, with trace elements)
• Azomite (0-0-0.2 Ph buffer, micro nutrient source)
• Sulfate of Potash (0-0-48 slow release)

Nitrogen + Phosphate Sources

• Fishbone Meal (COM 3-15-0 - slow N+P Release, 18 Ca slow release, trace elements + minerals, micro nutrient source)
• Crab Meal (4-3-0, Ca source, Chitin for soil pest management, trace elements + nutrients)
• Bone Meal ( 3-15-0 slow release N+P)
• Bat Guano ((ex. 15-1-1, 8-3-1) , Slow release)

Nitrogen + Phosphate + Potassium Sources

• Bat Guano (varies widely depending on type of bat+location)
• Peruvian Seabird Guano (12-3-2 varies depending on location mined)
• Alfalfa meal (2-1-2, slow release)
• Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2, slow release)
• Kelp Meal (1-0.1-2 fast release, beneficial bacteria’s, micronutrients)

Subcools Mix

High P Bat Guano - 5lb 0-5-0 or 0-9-0
Blood Meal - 5lb 12-0-0
Steamed Bone Meal - 5lb 3-15-0
Rock Phosphate- 3lb 0-3-0
Dolomite - 1/2 cup
Azomite - 1/2 cup 0-0-0.2
Epsom Salts - 3/4 cup
Humic Acid - 2 tbsp


Subcool NPK - 15-23-0 (no k?)

 

[GenericEnigma]

Updated List


Organic Soil Recipes


Super Soil lngredients

• Earth Worm Castings 30-60lbs (source(macro), source of micro nutrients + microbes and beneficial bacterias, slow release, soil builder)
• Fish Bone Meal 2-5 lbs ( N,P + Ca source slow release + trace micro nutrients )
• Fish Meal (N+P Source, food for microbial life in soil)
• Dolomite lime (ph buffer , Ca + Mg source)
• Oyster Shell Flour ( Dolomite Lime alternative, Ca source, Ph buffer, pest reduction (chitin), nitrate intake, flour provides faster Ca intake than crushed shells, aeration + drainage)
• Crab meal ( N+P source , chitin for biopesticide, Ca source, essential trace minerals)
• Blood Meal ( High N source, granular - slow, powdered - fast, promotes beneficial bacteria growth, accelerates organic matter decomposition)
• Kelp Meal (K source (light), beneficial enzymes, microbes, trace minerals, growth regs, vitamins)
• Rock Phosphate (P source, slow release long term supply)
• Bone Meal ( NP source short term supply)
• Azomite ( High trace minerals, rare earth minerals, good for root growth + germination, micronutrient source)
• Glacial rock dust (increases P availability, micronutrient source, soil structure enhanced)
• Epsom salt ( High source of Mg + S)
• Humic Acid ( allows for nutrie nt and mineral uptake at all stages, stimulates root and plant growth)
• Fulvic Acid ( Chelator, along with Humic acid aids in mineral and nutrient breakdown and uptake)
• Feather Meal (High N source, slow release)
• Seabird Guano ( High NPK + Ca source, with added bacterial activity in soil, Fast release) NPK Values vary
• Bat Guano (High NPK source + micronutrients, Fast release) NPK Values vary
• Neem Seed Meal (NPK source, natural pesticide)
• Langbeinite ( High K source + micro Mg + S)
• Greensand (Slow Release K source + trace minerals and drainage)
• BioChar (soil builder, nutrient leaching prevention)
• Seaweed Extract ( Fast acting K source, water soluble)
• Mined Gypsum ( Fast acting Ca Source, PM, bud rot, black spot mold resistance)

Recipe #1

Soil Structure Sources

• EWC 30-60lbs
• Greensand (drainage + aeration, K Source - slow (very slow years))
• Glacial Rock Dust (trace minerals, micro nutrient source, increased P availability, soil texture, drainage + aeration)
• Oyster Shell Flour ( PH Buffer, Fast Ca Source, aeration + drainage, Chitjn)
• Crushed Ouster Shells ( PH buffer, Ca source, microbe life, Chitin)
• Dolomite Lime ( PH buffer, Ca + Mg source)
• Crab Meal (NP Source, Micro nutrient source + Chitin for bio pesticide)
• BioChar (soil enhancement, water retention, texture builder, aeration + more)
• Mined Gypsum (Ca source, drainage, aeration)
• DE (insecticide, silica source)
• Peat
• Perlite
• Peat Moss

Nitrogen Sources

• Feather Meal (12-0-0 slow release)
• Blood Meal (12-0-0 fast release in water soluble form)

Phosphorus Sources

• Seabird Guano (0-11-0 Indonesian, slow release)
• Bat Guano ( High P fruit (Jamaican) eating only 0-5/9-0 slow release)
• Rock Phosphate (0-3-0 slow release)

Potassium Sources

• Langbeinite (0-0-22 slow release, contains Mg, Ca)
• Greensand (0-0-0.2 slow release, more of a soil builder, with trace elements)
• Azomite (0-0-0.2 Ph buffer, micro nutrient source)
• Sulfate of Potash (0-0-48 slow release)

Nitrogen + Phosphate Sources

• Fishbone Meal (COM 3-15-0 - slow N+P Release, 18 Ca slow release, trace elements + minerals, micro nutrient source)
• Crab Meal (4-3-0, Ca source, Chitin for soil pest management, trace elements + nutrients)
• Bone Meal ( 3-15-0 slow release N+P)
• Bat Guano ((ex. 15-1-1, 8-3-1) , Slow release)

Nitrogen + Phosphate + Potassium Sources

• Bat Guano (varies widely depending on type of bat+location)
• Peruvian Seabird Guano (12-3-2 varies depending on location mined)
• Alfalfa meal (2-1-2, slow release)
• Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2, slow release)
• Kelp Meal (1-0.1-2 fast release, beneficial bacteria’s, micronutrients)

Subcools Mix

High P Bat Guano - 5lb 0-5-0 or 0-9-0
Blood Meal - 5lb 12-0-0
Steamed Bone Meal - 5lb 3-15-0
Rock Phosphate- 3lb 0-3-0
Dolomite - 1/2 cup
Azomite - 1/2 cup 0-0-0.2
Epsom Salts - 3/4 cup
Humic Acid - 2 tbsp


Subcool NPK - 15-23-0 (no k?)

I have not used Subcool's recipe, but in reviewing his High Times article, it looks like his mix uses EWC and coco coir, which together likely provide the needed potassium.

 

[_EQ]

I have not used Subcool's recipe, but in reviewing his High Times article, it looks like his mix uses EWC and coco coir, which together likely provide the needed potassium.

Interesting all of this in general is so new to me. The guaranteed analysis of the EWC brands online atleast the bigger ones on Amazon show pretty much nothing in terms of NPK (like 1-0-0). It’s very confusing. I know in a lot of his interviews he says to get locally sourced EWCs maybe that’s why? Unfortunately for me the nearest work farm is like 2 1/2 hours from me.

 

[FmSwayze]

If you'd like I can delete my posts LOL but yeah that's me I even mentioned it was out of my depth. Just wasn't reading the topic, oops, thanks Fm

Ohhhh stop! Don't delete anything, we are better than that. Just wanted to steer us back on the road lmao! Our relationship is just starting

 

[FmSwayze]

 

[GenericEnigma]

Interesting all of this in general is so new to me. The guaranteed analysis of the EWC brands online atleast the bigger ones on Amazon show pretty much nothing in terms of NPK (like 1-0-0). It’s very confusing. I know in a lot of his interviews he says to get locally sourced EWCs maybe that’s why? Unfortunately for me the nearest work farm is like 2 1/2 hours from me.

Dunno for sure. EWC can vary. Mine is super hot and chock full of micros.

Got a backyard?