Upgrading LED Lights

[medidedicated]

I have two 2.5x5’s that are 6.5’ tall and a 3x3 all flower tents. My style is 2.5x2.5’ wide plants with 6-6.5’ height and 3x3x6 for the first time.

So nothing bigger than 3x3x6 or the other tents any time soon and thats fine. I love the results of them.

I had evolved a bit growing wise especially doing clone side by sides same plant. Using minimal lighting, knock off brands and now sufficiently with mars hydro.

They work perfect for 2.5x2.5 but dont like the hazard. I see now a viparspectra p1500 is the same footprint. I just read theyre safer, is it?

Im interested in trying them out after my mars lights run their course.

What are key differences between the two? Why do my mars lights produce the best quality and yield and how could it compare to VS P1500?

Using this thread to evolve my knowledge and possession of lights eventually to HLG but why? Ill leave it at that.

 

[medidedicated]

I have some understanding of overall like blue, yellow, IR and red lights and samsung chips, more expensive samsung chips. Top bin. Ive heard everything at least once.

Any links to things I can read to answer my own questions that would help.

My knockoff brand has all the same lights but something about the mars does grow better clones than the other light.

On other hand with the right hormone distribution my mini clones of 28 w for both of ACI bar lights samsung diodes created chunky buds. A structure I havent seen this clone grow before.

I have a 3x3 knock off brand its a fecida 230w I rather try growing with a VS and get to know them or others. Or another mars hydro.

Spider farmer I heard is owned by mars hydro. Are they any different?

 

[yummy fur]

I was thinking the same thing last night. I have a 60in by 32in and currently have a couple of QB96's and a small viparspectra and a rapid LED puck. Most of these are over 5 years old. I was looking at using 3 x Viparspectra XS1500 pro with the upgraded lens. in my tent. Three in line would make a continuous strip right across the full width of the tent. Or they would also work with the long side on the width of the tent.

 

[CptBluemax]

I can vouch massively for Viparspectra , I have 2 xs1500s in my 4x4 tent and theyre the models before the lenses were added.

Theyre absolutely FANTASTIC for resin and trichome production , ya wont have seen anything like it.

 

[medidedicated]

Awesome thanks yall! I did hear sun grown produces more hash and was wondering how leds could improve to do the same. Im a 100% rosins only farmer and user so thats awesome to hear!

 

[medidedicated]

I really love my mars hydro but yea I didnt try searching about the fire hazards until after I bought it but didnt have a better option yet since then until now.

Theres just endless reports of melting cords near fire started etc. I hate to say that but hey mars can learn a thing or two from its competetors, most of us grow in a house we live in lol.

Im gonna start looking for a 3x3 viparspectra and test it out so I can start getting to know them. Then get those lights for the rest of my garden after a good wear and tear with these mars hydros.

 

[VaSmile]

My HLG rspec pushes my 3x4x6 with better results then my mars hydro tsl 2000 dose my 2x4x5 at a lower watt draw. Cant explain all the science behind it. But i run my hlg at about 190w draw and my mh at about 225w. I will not be buying any more mid teir lights ( mars hydro, spiderfarmer, ext.) Unless i get them at a steal on ebay or something. The knock offs run just fine at about 1/2 the cost and the high end stuff preforms better with longer life spands with better customer support.

 

[medidedicated]

Thats the thing though I was using epistar led diodes of a brand knock off and was only barely cheaper. Just looked again, yea theyre not much cheaper even the other knock off brands probably same diodes.

I think theres something to samsung lights growing better girthy buds at a quarter the watts. Comparing buds in full size plant getting 65w or even the 130w one per 2x2 space.

The clear winners are the mars hydro and samsung which essentially both are Im sure. Ive seen the.. freakin whats it called.

LM301B is all I can find that they use amd its on their SP series. I heard theyre only like 3 mfg in the world that make led diodes and all brands use it but some use the latest newest best tech.

Top bin of those at that which I heard of but not sure what means other than it performs the best of that latest tech.

That diode manufacturing theyre not all perfect theres top bin then the rest but thats just what I heard/know atm .

I remember they used to advertize openly what diodes theyre using idk what changed. I had to look hard just to find that. like this diode and compares to other brand and says “fake diodes” lol.

 

[TheWholeTruth]

I really love my mars hydro but yea I didnt try searching about the fire hazards until after I bought it but didnt have a better option yet since then until now.

Theres just endless reports of melting cords near fire started etc. I hate to say that but hey mars can learn a thing or two from its competetors, most of us grow in a house we live in lol.

Im gonna start looking for a 3x3 viparspectra and test it out so I can start getting to know them. Then get those lights for the rest of my garden after a good wear and tear with these mars hydros.

Have you got any links or quotes you can put up about mars being a hazzard. I know with their old style blurples and the very old style led chips ( that era) they had a lot of issues. But not herd of much since they bucked up their ideas. When they droped their first style sp lights the heat sinks were very chunky and the overall build was great. Just genuinly curious as they seemed to be doing well and building good lights. I thought most of the issues came with those old lights that used those decades old chips, which were being run to their limt, with lots of crapy drivers and rubbish wires and clips and computer fans ect.

 

[VaSmile]

Guy at my local grow shop told me HLG has a contract with samsung for first pick of dioads and chips of each manufacturing run. Cant find any info online to confirm. But it makes sense that it creates a safer more efficent and consistant end product. I run an addiding 480w in my 3x3x6 it seems to be a mimic of MH fc serise it cost me like $220(US) and i have no complaints. I do like that bar style over pannels for the more even light distrabution and spreading out the heat production

 

[VaSmile]

Have you got any links or quotes you can put up about mars being a hazzard. I know with their old style blurples and the very old style led chips ( that era) they had a lot of issues. But not herd of much since they bucked up their ideas. When they droped their first style sp lights the heat sinks were very chunky and the overall build was great. Just genuinly curious as they seemed to be doing well and building good lights. I thought most of the issues came with those old lights that used those decades old chips, which were being run to their limt, with lots of crapy drivers and rubbish wires and clips and computer fans ect.

Im a big fan of using over powered lights and running them at 50-60% it should expand life spand an eliminate the risk of electrical malfunction regardless of manufacture. This may just be residual anxiety from being trained back in the HPS/CFM days, but the principle remains the same.

 

[medidedicated]

Have you got any links or quotes you can put up about mars being a hazzard. I know with their old style blurples and the very old style led chips ( that era) they had a lot of issues. But not herd of much since they bucked up their ideas. When they droped their first style sp lights the heat sinks were very chunky and the overall build was great. Just genuinly curious as they seemed to be doing well and building good lights. I thought most of the issues came with those old lights that used those decades old chips, which were being run to their limt, with lots of crapy drivers and rubbish wires and clips and computer fans ect.

Well thats just 5 mins of looking at reviews on amazon. Loads more and outside of amazon.

 

[medidedicated]

Thats good to hear but just pulling those up since I saw you asked, made me feel uneasy again.

 

[TheWholeTruth]

Well thats just 5 mins of looking at reviews on amazon. Loads more and outside of amazon.

Thanks. I hadnt seen them before wich is why i asked. Most isues seem to be with those models with the thin thin heat sink. To be expected, those heatsinks are too thin. Thanks for letting me know. I was going to get one of those ts type models afew years back but just ended up making a better light myself.

 

[Rocket Soul]

This is an interesting read regarding effects on spectrum on a whole load of factors, yoeld/thc/terps/morphology and density:

Frontiers | The role of red and white light in optimizing growth and accumulation of plant specialized metabolites at two light intensities in medical cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) (frontiersin.org)

Frontiers | The role of red and white light in optimizing growth and accumulation of plant specialized metabolites at two light intensities in medical cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.)

The cultivation of medical cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) is expanding in controlled environments, driven by evolving governmental regulations for healthcare ...

www.frontiersin.org

Sadly not really any lights about that fits the bill for the top condition, wide red supplement.
Would you consider diy? Its a very fun rabbit hole, which really pays off if youre willing to go the distance.

The vipar light mentioned is outstanding for amazing even spread due to the lenses that spread the ligh and allows for lower hanging height. Only thing id fault it for is spectrum, a bit low in the red supplement.

 

[medidedicated]

This is an interesting read regarding effects on spectrum on a whole load of factors, yoeld/thc/terps/morphology and density:

Frontiers | The role of red and white light in optimizing growth and accumulation of plant specialized metabolites at two light intensities in medical cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) (frontiersin.org)

Frontiers | The role of red and white light in optimizing growth and accumulation of plant specialized metabolites at two light intensities in medical cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.)

The cultivation of medical cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) is expanding in controlled environments, driven by evolving governmental regulations for healthcare ...

www.frontiersin.org

Sadly not really any lights about that fits the bill for the top condition, wide red supplement.
Would you consider diy? Its a very fun rabbit hole, which really pays off if youre willing to go the distance.

The vipar light mentioned is outstanding for amazing even spread due to the lenses that spread the ligh and allows for lower hanging height. Only thing id fault it for is spectrum, a bit low in the red supplement.

Nice, Ill check that out thanks. I rather not diy to avoid any fire hazard if im not willing to really dedicate and even then. I may create a hazard.

I have no handy background. I struggled to setup a drip system of flora flex but figured out eventually. But thats simple stuff.

You think the vipar spectra is safer than the mars hydro? Fire hazard is a huge priority to reduce. Just checking for extra opinions.

How does the mars hydro / vipar spectra compare in the red department? Or period, is it hard to notice one being better in the quality and yield department of things?

 

[curious2garden]

My HLG rspec pushes my 3x4x6 with better results then my mars hydro tsl 2000 dose my 2x4x5 at a lower watt draw. Cant explain all the science behind it. But i run my hlg at about 190w draw and my mh at about 225w. I will not be buying any more mid teir lights ( mars hydro, spiderfarmer, ext.) Unless i get them at a steal on ebay or something. The knock offs run just fine at about 1/2 the cost and the high end stuff preforms better with longer life spands with better customer support.

Same experience with my HLGs. They outperform anything I've run.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Part of the reason i DIY is to control the exact components, i do it because of and not despite of the fire risk. Too many companies cut corners, with mars i think they used some shitty quick connectors that tend to arc and melt. I found that looking safe and being safe is two different things.

DIY execution is very, very simple. The complicated part is design (and figuring out what spectrum will have what effect on your plant) and sourcing parts effectively. But the setup is basicly on the level of putting an ikea table together, there really isnt anything but drilling aluminium, sticking solid wire into pushin connectors and tightening a few screws. Thats it. If youve setup floraflex and not flooded your place you can diy led.

There are great benefits to it:
- adapt it specifically to your space
- tweaked spectrums not available in any growlights on the market (its remarkable how samey every light is nowadays)
- no need for sending of your lights under warranty - what i build i can repair, usually exchange in a board or strip is no more than a 30min job.
- add whatever functionality you want. Wanna have a light with separate veg and flower spectrum? Cool, you can just build it

But mainly the satisfaction of seeing your results go up and knowing that you made the whole thing. Especially if you already tinker with side by sides and different genetics. If you decide to go that way your always welcome to hit me up.

 

[Delps8]

In a 3' x 3' tent, I'd go with the Spider SE5000. It's got a very high PPFD, a good PPFD map, and it's pretty cheap.

The image below is the PPFD map, the image below that has been modified to support my argument.




Spider has done a lot of re-engineering over the past couple of years and if you look at the 3' area in the center of this PPFD map for the SE5000, the map is, essentially perfectly flat in the 2' x 3' area. The values range from 1309 to 1205 which is excellent. It's only along the edges that there's significant light falloff and, while it's as low as 1000 in some areas vs almost 1300 in the center, a key point is that this is a PPFD map for the SE5000 in a 4' x 4' tent. If these measurements were taken in a 3' x 3' tent, it would be reasonable to increase the values at the tent sides by about 100µmol (that's the value I've seen in taking PPFD values in my 2' x 4' tent).



HLG lights are very popular here and I suspect it's because a lot of growers are using the R spec light, a red heavy light. Red diodes are very electrically efficient and, when it comes to yield, the more photons the better (as long as you've got at least 4% blue in the spectrum). So HLG will do well but the plants will tend to be markedly taller than plant that are grown with a white LED or plants that are vegged with one of their B spec lights. Also, HLG lights, historically, have had a hot spot which makes it challenging to light the canopy with an even light cast.

I've retired my Growcraft X3 flower light and have replaced it with their SE4500. I can't find a light for a 2' x 4' tent that has both a very high PPFD while also having a very even PPFD map.

A few years ago, Spider came out with the SE 7000 which had an extremely even PPFD map in the 5' space and they've followed that approach in lights since then. More light = more weed* but more light + more even light = even more weed.

*up to the light saturation point

 

[medidedicated]

My 65w per plant knock off leds. Not bad this run, looking ok. Could be better and it is in my 130w light plant same brand.