Third Party Shitcannery, the mega-richs' hopes of Netanyahu'ing Trump back into office.

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
So Isreal's justice avoiding dictator snuck back into office by leveraging their multi-party system division, and a lot of spawn of rich daddies that are hopeful that they can get it to work for Trump (again) here. That way they can get away with another generation of not having to pay taxes on their inheritance to clean up the messes, that the rest of us have to deal with the consequences of, that was made when much of it was gained.

It worked before for them when Jill Stein drew just enough votes away from Clinton in 2016 to get Trump elected (the only real substantive legislation he passed was huge tax breaks to the mega rich), and it looks like the right wing propagandists (even ones that are catfishing us as 'the left') are out to try again with our elections in 2024.

I found it interesting when one of these mega donor funded groups trying to sneak us back into a dictatorship got all mad and decided to black face on MSNBC to invoke 'the clan' when they had no answer to the question of what will they do if they are helping Trump to get reelected outside of 'that is not what we are going to do'.


lol at calling these videos negative reaction to their attempt to sneak us into a dictatorship as the equivalent to things like murdering children and terrorizing people which is what the clan did to keep people suppressed in our nation.





My bullshit guess on how this plays out is Niky Haley uses the Republican platform for as long as possible and then drops to go be the "No Labels" candidate (can't let all their hard work trying to trick people into voting for her doppelgänger Gabbard go to waste), with some left troll like Manchin as her running mate (he did say he was not planning on running for president, but I'm not sure that would preclude him from being a vp candidate), and some other left troll like West pulling from Biden on the left, it might just be enough to sneak Trump back.

Especially since they can't run this idiot..

 

Sir Napsalot

Well-Known Member
One of my best friends voted for Nader and Jill Stein

I get that he has issues with the two-party system (as do I), but we live in a pretty solidly blue state so his vote of protest is largely symbolic, a gesture which I find somewhat admirable on it's face, otherwise I might hate on him some
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
One of my best friends voted for Nader and Jill Stein

I get that he has issues with the two-party system (as do I), but we live in a pretty solidly blue state so his vote of protest is largely symbolic, a gesture which I find somewhat admirable on it's face, otherwise I might hate on him some
I almost got tricked into not voting in 2016 and prior to putting in the work to earn a economics degree I was fascinated by a lot of the local/green 'economics' books. But after asking questions on them and figuring out what was bullshit with them I woke up to the fact that they are just left troll propagandist material.

A decade ago I might have been more open to the whole more than two parties thing, but when one calls for dictatorship, the other has to stand the line against it, a third party being maybe a bit in the middle drawing enough votes away to force us Americans to bend a knee to a dictator/would be king has changed my mind about it.

We can always vote in better candidates, people can run to take offices from the current party members they dislike, and yes people could always run as a not Democrat/Republcian meaning there really are unlimited parties, so it is not like it is not a option, it is just a different system that as Netanyahu has demonstrated can be cheated to maintain power.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://apnews.com/article/ai-chatbots-elections-artificial-intelligence-chatgpt-falsehoods-cc50dd0f3f4e7cc322c7235220fc4c69
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NEW YORK (AP) — With presidential primaries underway across the U.S., popular chatbots are generating false and misleading information that threatens to disenfranchise voters, according to a report published Tuesday based on the findings of artificial intelligence experts and a bipartisan group of election officials.

Fifteen states and one territory will hold both Democratic and Republican presidential nominating contests next week on Super Tuesday, and millions of people already are turning to artificial intelligence -powered chatbots for basic information, including about how their voting process works.

Trained on troves of text pulled from the internet, chatbots such as GPT-4 and Google’s Gemini are ready with AI-generated answers, but prone to suggesting voters head to polling places that don’t exist or inventing illogical responses based on rehashed, dated information, the report found.

“The chatbots are not ready for primetime when it comes to giving important, nuanced information about elections,” said Seth Bluestein, a Republican city commissioner in Philadelphia, who along with other election officials and AI researchers took the chatbots for a test drive as part of a broader research project last month.

An AP journalist observed as the group convened at Columbia University tested how five large language models responded to a set of prompts about the election — such as where a voter could find their nearest polling place — then rated the responses they kicked out.

All five models they tested — OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4, Meta’s Llama 2, Google’s Gemini, Anthropic’s Claude, and Mixtral from the French company Mistral — failed to varying degrees when asked to respond to basic questions about the democratic process, according to the report, which synthesized the workshop’s findings.

Workshop participants rated more than half of the chatbots’ responses as inaccurate and categorized 40% of the responses as harmful, including perpetuating dated and inaccurate information that could limit voting rights, the report said.

For example, when participants asked the chatbots where to vote in the ZIP code 19121, a majority Black neighborhood in northwest Philadelphia, Google’s Gemini replied that wasn’t going to happen.

“There is no voting precinct in the United States with the code 19121,” Gemini responded.

Testers used a custom-built software tool to query the five popular chatbots by accessing their back-end APIs, and prompt them simultaneously with the same questions to measure their answers against one another.

While that’s not an exact representation of how people query chatbots using their own phones or computers, querying chatbots’ APIs is one way to evaluate the kind of answers they generate in the real world.

Researchers have developed similar approaches to benchmark how well chatbots can produce credible information in other applications that touch society, including in healthcare where researchers at Stanford University recently found large language models couldn’t reliably cite factual references to support the answers they generated to medical questions.

OpenAI, which last month outlined a plan to prevent its tools from being used to spread election misinformation, said in response that the company would “keep evolving our approach as we learn more about how our tools are used,” but offered no specifics.

Anthropic plans to roll out a new intervention in the coming weeks to provide accurate voting information because “our model is not trained frequently enough to provide real-time information about specific elections and ... large language models can sometimes ‘hallucinate’ incorrect information,” said Alex Sanderford, Anthropic’s Trust and Safety Lead.

Meta spokesman Daniel Roberts called the findings “meaningless” because they don’t exactly mirror the experience a person typically would have with a chatbot. Developers building tools that integrate Meta’s large language model into their technology using the API should read a guide that describes how to use the data responsibly, he added. That guide does not include specifics about how to deal with election-related content.

“We’re continuing to improve the accuracy of the API service, and we and others in the industry have disclosed that these models may sometimes be inaccurate. We’re regularly shipping technical improvements and developer controls to address these issues,” Google’s head of product for responsible AI Tulsee Doshi said in response.

Mistral did not immediately respond to requests for comment Tuesday.

In some responses, the bots appeared to pull from outdated or inaccurate sources, highlighting problems with the electoral system that election officials have spent years trying to combat and raising fresh concerns about generative AI’s capacity to amplify longstanding threats to democracy.

In Nevada, where same-day voter registration has been allowed since 2019, four of the five chatbots tested wrongly asserted that voters would be blocked from registering to vote weeks before Election Day.

“It scared me, more than anything, because the information provided was wrong,” said Nevada Secretary of State Francisco Aguilar, a Democrat who participated in last month’s testing workshop.

The research and report are the product of the AI Democracy Projects, a collaboration between Proof News, a new nonprofit news outlet led by investigative journalist Julia Angwin, and the Science, Technology and Social Values Lab at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey.

Most adults in the U.S. fear that AI tools— which can micro-target political audiences, mass produce persuasive messages, and generate realistic fake images and videos — will increase the spread of false and misleading information during this year’s elections, according to a recent poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research and the University of Chicago Harris School of Public Policy.

And attempts at AI-generated election interference have already begun, such as when AI robocalls that mimicked U.S. President Joe Biden’s voice tried to discourage people from voting in New Hampshire’s primary election last month.

Politicians also have experimented with the technology, from using AI chatbots to communicate with voters to adding AI-generated images to ads.

Yet in the U.S., Congress has yet to pass laws regulating AI in politics, leaving the tech companies behind the chatbots to govern themselves.

Two weeks ago, major technology companies signed a largely symbolic pact to voluntarily adopt “reasonable precautions” to prevent artificial intelligence tools from being used to generate increasingly realistic AI-generated images, audio and video, including material that provides “false information to voters about when, where, and how they can lawfully vote.”

The report’s findings raise questions about how the chatbots’ makers are complying with their own pledges to promote information integrity this presidential election year.

Overall, the report found Gemini, Llama 2 and Mixtral had the highest rates of wrong answers, with the Google chatbot getting nearly two-thirds of all answers wrong.

One example: when asked if people could vote via text message in California, the Mixtral and Llama 2 models went off the rails.

“In California, you can vote via SMS (text messaging) using a service called Vote by Text,” Meta’s Llama 2 responded. “This service allows you to cast your vote using a secure and easy-to-use system that is accessible from any mobile device.”

To be clear, voting via text is not allowed, and the Vote to Text service does not exist.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/28/kennedy-pac-ballots-arizona-georgia/
Screen Shot 2024-02-29 at 11.16.53 AM.png

A super PAC supporting independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said it has collected enough signatures for his name to appear on the ballots in Georgia and Arizona, two battleground states that will help determine who wins the presidency.

The group, American Values 2024, said on its website as of Wednesday morning that it had collected 20,188 signatures in Georgia, well above the 7,500 required there, and an additional 62,605 signatures in Arizona, more than the 42,303 threshold in that state.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
This talking head on Chris Jansen (MSNBC) just had a great explanation of his opinion about how RFK is not in the debate (lol the first point is the dipshit is not even on enough ballots to get 270 ec votes which means he can't be elected president at this point which is criteria for the debates).


But the part I liked was junior was being used by Trump as a stand-in for 'mainstream Democrat', which explains why the idiot said sure
when asked about being willing to let people abort babies after they were born. Selling Trump's lies for the internet trolls to spam to the people willing to believe this shit they are selling. How long before Biden has to start answering stupid as shit questions about Kennedy's 'positions on issues' that are really just spoon-fed Trump talking points he wants Biden to engage in because they are generally complex problems that are not answerable in a tight 30 second soundbite, and many don't actually have solutions, and should really be answered by one of the specialists in that field that can see the bullshit being spouted a mile away and not expect anyone to have to 'sell' everything and anything on a moments notice.

 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
This thread is ironic considering the tricks the democrats used to get someone on the ballot that no one voted for lol.
I am not sure it is ironic that Democrats have outsmarted the right wing propagandists by not letting them build up spam for years. But who knows, the meaning of ironic seems pretty loose at times..

But I am not sure this is the case. Democratic voters in the form of delegates did indeed vote for Harris.

https://apnews.com/article/kamala-harris-nomination-dnc-463d0b8095f2ca3526b3af3a2f44c3ca
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WASHINGTON (AP) — Vice President Kamala Harris has secured enough votes from delegates to become her party’s nominee for president, Democratic National Committee Chair Jaime Harrison said Friday.

The announcement was made before the online voting process ends on Monday, reflecting the breakneck speed of a campaign that is eager to maintain momentum after President Joe Biden ended his reelection bid and endorsed Harris as his successor less than two weeks ago.

Harris is poised to be the first woman of color at the top of a major party’s ticket, and she joined a call with supporters to say she is “honored to be the presumptive Democratic nominee.”

“It’s not going to be easy. But we’re going to get this done,” she added. “As your future president, I know we are up to this fight.”

Harrison pledged that Democrats “will rally around Vice President Kamala Harris and demonstrate the strength of our party” during their convention in Chicago later this month.

The Democratic National Committee did not provide details of the delegate vote count, including a number or state-by-state breakdowns, during a virtual event that had the flavor of a telethon, with campaign officials keeping tabs on a delegate-counting process whose result is a foregone conclusion.

No other candidate challenged Harris for the nomination, and she swiftly solidified Democratic support in the days after Biden endorsed her.

Democrats still plan a state-by-state roll call during the party’s convention, the traditional way that a nominee is chosen. However, that will be purely ceremonial because of the online voting.

As Harris prepares to face off with Republican nominee Donald Trump, her campaign is reorganizing its senior staff and bringing on a coterie of veterans of President Barack Obama’s successful campaigns.

David Plouffe will serve as a senior adviser focused on Harris’ pathway to the 270 Electoral College votes she needs to win the election. To take the role, he will stop consulting for TikTok, the social media app, as well as a podcast that he was hosting with Kellyanne Conway, the former Trump campaign manager, according to a person familiar with his plans.

In addition, Stephanie Cutter will advise on messaging and strategy, while Mitch Stewart will serve as senior adviser for battleground states. Brian Nelson, who until recently was an undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence at the Treasury Department, has shifted to the campaign to advise Harris on policy.

Despite the new additions, many aspects of the campaign remain the same from when Biden was the candidate. Jen O’Malley Dillon still serves as chairwoman and will oversee the entire staff structure.

Other unchanged senior roles include Julie Chavez Rodriguez as campaign manager, Quentin Fulks as principal deputy campaign manager and Michael Tyler as communications director.

Sheila Nix will continue as Harris’ senior adviser and chief of staff on the campaign. Former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Marcia Fudge, who was recently brought on as a campaign co-chair, is expanding her portfolio to include outreach and strategy.

Brian Fallon, who had been Harris’ campaign communications director when Biden was still on the ticket, will now serve as senior adviser of communications.

Elizabeth Allen, most recently an undersecretary at the State Department, will be chief of staff for Harris’ running mate, who has not yet been chosen. Harris is expected to interview candidates over the weekend.

Democratic officials have said the accelerated roll call process was necessary because of an Aug. 7 deadline to ensure candidates appear on the Ohio ballot.

Ohio state lawmakers have since changed the deadline, but the modification doesn’t take effect until Sept. 1. Democratic attorneys said that waiting until after the initial deadline to determine a presidential nominee could prompt a legal challenge.
 

Stardog FPV

Well-Known Member
I am not sure it is ironic that Democrats have outsmarted the right wing propagandists by not letting them build up spam for years. But who knows, the meaning of ironic seems pretty loose at times..

But I am not sure this is the case. Democratic voters in the form of delegates did indeed vote for Harris.

https://apnews.com/article/kamala-harris-nomination-dnc-463d0b8095f2ca3526b3af3a2f44c3ca
View attachment 5414077
Whatever protects "the democracy", (the party).
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Whatever protects "the democracy", (the party).
Not allowing a would be fascist foreign puppet dictator (like Trump) who has proven incapable of leading our nation in anything outside of dividing us with his hate mongering propaganda attack is not only good for the Democratic Party, but democracy as a whole.

So sure I am perfectly ok with the Democratic Party delegate voters placing their votes for the current Vice President of the United States of America to be on the ticket against Trump in November, when we all (mostly even if the Republican voter suppression makes it extremely difficult for large urban voting areas to cast them) get to use our votes the way we want.
 

Stardog FPV

Well-Known Member
Not allowing a would be fascist foreign puppet dictator (like Trump) who has proven incapable of leading our nation in anything outside of dividing us with his hate mongering propaganda attack is not only good for the Democratic Party, but democracy as a whole.

So sure I am perfectly ok with the Democratic Party delegate voters placing their votes for the current Vice President of the United States of America to be on the ticket against Trump in November, when we all (mostly even if the Republican voter suppression makes it extremely difficult for large urban voting areas to cast them) get to use our votes the way we want.
Yes we need to protect the party,, er I mean democracy at all costs. Even if it means using non democratic tricks to get someone no one voted for on the ballot. Yay democracy!
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Yes we need to protect the party,, er I mean democracy at all costs. Even if it means using non democratic tricks to get someone no one voted for on the ballot. Yay democracy!
I am not sure I see how us voting for a presidential candidate in November would somehow mean we are not voting?

What would you have preferred to have seen happen when Biden decided to retire at the end of his term? He had already won almost every single delegate in the open primary election, so he freed up all of those American citizens who took the steps to be a delegate in their political parties.

So for example in California it looks like you have to fill out a form and attend a party meeting:
And again those delegates are the ones who represent the voters and they used those votes to nominate Harris for the ticket that the Democratic Party has for the office of the president. Shit Harris even stepped up and told the world that she wasn't anointed, and won the contest when nobody else stepped up.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/21/harris-biden-drops-out-letter
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Did you think that somehow they were going to be able to run elections that have been going on for months because Biden stepped out of the race? What would you have the Democratic Party do?
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member


Lol at his pretending like he totally was not the one that hit the bear with his car and decided to own the libs by making it look like some bike killed a bear.

lol I miss Casey Hunt, her and Haley Jackson are really great reporters.
 

Stardog FPV

Well-Known Member
"What would you have the Democratic Party do?"

C,mon man! How did Harris do in the 2020 primaries? If you can't see this as an attack on democracy and an underhanded play to get someone on the ballot that no one voted for you are lying to yourself.


Why didn't Joe resign before the primaries?

Because he knew Harris would never get voted onto the ballot in open election.

It's true fascist tactics that real dictators use.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
"What would you have the Democratic Party do?"

C,mon man! How did Harris do in the 2020 primaries? If you can't see this as an attack on democracy and an underhanded play to get someone on the ballot that no one voted for you are lying to yourself.
I disagree, it is the Democratic Party voters picking someone who stepped down and them having to pick someone to nominate to run for POTUS.

I would be curious though the question you posted that I asked, what would you have the Democratic Party do instead of allowing the people who the party voters chose to vote for a new candidate in the time remaining?
Why didn't Joe resign before the primaries?

Because he knew Harris would never get voted onto the ballot in open election.
My best guess is because he chose not to. The reason (again just a guess) in a dream scenario is that he knew Trump and his propaganda troll farms (foreign and domestic) have been pushing anti-Biden nonsense for years and he wanted to sidestep it all screwing all their hard work.

It's true fascist tactics that real dictators use.
nah.
 
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Stardog FPV

Well-Known Member
Okay I'll answer "What would you have the Democratic Party do?"

Joe knew he was resigning and wanted Harris on the ballot although he knew she was un-electable in the primaries.

If the democrats Joe wanted to keep appearances of legitimacy he should've resigned before the primaries and let voters decide.

What happened was an technically legal underhanded tactic.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Okay I'll answer "What would you have the Democratic Party do?"

Joe knew he was resigning and wanted Harris on the ballot although he knew she was un-electable in the primaries.

If the democrats Joe wanted to keep appearances of legitimacy he should've resigned before the primaries and let voters decide.

What happened was an technically legal underhanded tactic.
The voters did decide though, the delegates picked Harris, not Biden. Sure Biden backed her, but those voters could have chosen any Democrats who was asking for their vote.

He didn't drop back in Feb, he dropped in August. And the Democratic Party had to have someone for their nominee for the actual general election that if Harris is to become the next president she will have to win the vote of enough voters for her to get the 270+ electoral votes to become our next POTUS.

It is all legitimate, otherwise it would not have been done.

This is not Trump trying to strong arm public officials to overturn a election, this is a candidate stepping down and the party going through their legit method of picking someone to replace that person.

But I get how it would upset some people. Trump and his troll army put a lot of time and effort into manufacturing outrage over Biden for 5 years (plus whatever setting up they did prior to the 2016 election before he dropped then), and to have that all go to waste would be infuriating (for them).

Also nice to meet you. Welcome to the forum.

I am not trying to troll you or get anyone upset, if you feel like I am crossing a line just let me know and ill take it down a few notches. There is a lot of social landmines set up for people to have a difficult time not being mad at one another for reasons that make perfect sense to one, but through the kaleidoscope of propaganda may mean something completely different to another person.
 
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