FC3000 Causing Issues at only 30 DLI. What’s going on?

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giaach

Active Member
Running a 3x3 with an FC3000 at around 40% but my plants looked stressed as hell.
Is this light burn or calmag issues?


Day 31 from sprout. Promix HP with Gaia green amendments and worm castings.
Did first dry amendment yesterday and watered with molasses mixed into PH’d water.
 

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Delps8

Well-Known Member
Plants in pictures 2 and 3 look good. Plant #1 is "praying" and looks to be on the cusp of too much light.

A DLI of 30 should be OK but that's the PPFD over the course of a day so it can be misleading. What's your hang height, PPFD, and light schedule?

A photo of the entire grow would be helpful along with temp and RH.
 
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giaach

Active Member
Running 18/6 for lights
Have it strung up all the way

Rh typically sits around 48/55%
Temps fluctuating from 72-80

4” inline fan running at 90% and room fan.
 

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giaach

Active Member
Delps8 said:
Plants in pictures 2 and 3 look good. Plant #1 is "praying" and looks to be on the cusp of too much light.

A DLI of 30 should be OK but that's the PPFD over the course of a day so it can be misleading. What's your hang height, PPFD, and light schedule?

A photo of the entire grow would be helpful along with temp and RH.
Click to expand...
SEE ABOVE
 
G

giaach

Active Member
Hollatchaboy said:
In veg- early flower, I shoot for 81-82f w/leds. Mid flower - mid 70s, late flower mid 60s - low 70s.
Click to expand...
So at this point I’d say I’m about 1 into flower so I’ll target a bit warmer and bump the humidity a little as well.

However the big question is why is one plant freaking out from the light while the other is fine?

Just chalk it up to genetics I take it? This FC3000 is way different than the TS1000 I was running before.
 
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Delps8

Well-Known Member
giaach said:
So at this point I’d say I’m about 1 into flower so I’ll target a bit warmer and bump the humidity a little as well.

However the big question is why is one plant freaking out from the light while the other is fine?

Just chalk it up to genetics I take it? This FC3000 is way different than the TS1000 I was running before.
Click to expand...
In the most recent photo, I don't see anything to indicate that the plants are "freaking out". It looks like the leaves at the top of plant on the right have lowered their angle.

Re. temp and RH - temp and RH on the floor in the corner is the temp and RH on the floor in the corner. It wouldn't hurt to get the temp and RH at the canopy level.

Cannabis will grow in a range of temp and RH values. Metabolic rate increases with temperature and net photosynthesis peaks at 85°±. One photo shows 77° and 48%. Per this screenshot, your VPD is right on target.

1723485417945.png

The plant on then left has a damaged leaf but the damage is limited to one leaf and appears to have happened some time ago.

All in all, it's good that you're watching your plant but I don't see light damage. One picture showed the top of one plant with leaves at a very high angle but that appears to have changed, right?

If I were growing this, I would continue to increase light levels because crop yield and quality increase as light levels increase. I grow in hydro and am careful to keep VPD at optimal levels so at this age 45 days±, I'm typically feeding my plants at higher light levels.


I opened my grow journal from my grow this Spring and the text below was highlighted, from day 41.

The values in the table are PPFD or DLI with averages for the grids in the bottom rows and side columns for average and standard deviation.

The average PPFD for the plant was 999µmol and the canopy was very even at the time with a standard deviation of 37µmol or, for DLI, 3mol. The average DLI for the plant was 86 with values ranging from 90mol to 84mol.

Cannabis is a light whore loves light.

1723485676420.png
 
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giaach

Active Member
Delps8 said:
In the most recent photo, I don't see anything to indicate that the plants are "freaking out". It looks like the leaves at the top of plant on the right have lowered their angle.

Re. temp and RH - temp and RH on the floor in the corner is the temp and RH on the floor in the corner. It wouldn't hurt to get the temp and RH at the canopy level.

Cannabis will grow in a range of temp and RH values. Metabolic rate increases with temperature and net photosynthesis peaks at 85°±. One photo shows 77° and 48%. Per this screenshot, your VPD is right on target.

View attachment 5416188

The plant on then left has a damaged leaf but the damage is limited to one leaf and appears to have happened some time ago.

All in all, it's good that you're watching your plant but I don't see light damage. One picture showed the top of one plant with leaves at a very high angle but that appears to have changed, right?

If I were growing this, I would continue to increase light levels because crop yield and quality increase as light levels increase. I grow in hydro and am careful to keep VPD at optimal levels so at this age 45 days±, I'm typically feeding my plants at higher light levels.


I opened my grow journal from my grow this Spring and the text below was highlighted, from day 41.

The values in the table are PPFD or DLI with averages for the grids in the bottom rows and side columns for average and standard deviation.

The average PPFD for the plant was 999µmol and the canopy was very even at the time with a standard deviation of 37µmol or, for DLI, 3mol. The average DLI for the plant was 86 with values ranging from 90mol to 84mol.

Cannabis is a light whore loves light.

View attachment 5416192
Click to expand...
Thank you for such a detailed response!

That one plant is definitely praying pretty aggressively but it may have changed ever so slightly.

I think I ran into a bit of a nitrogen issue out the gate hence the yellow tips and slight clawing on the right plant. Autos are so finicky with ferts and I’m running all organic with Gaia Green.

I’ll get that DLI back up and see how things go as I know 20-25 DLI is way too low in early flower/late veg.
 
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Delps8

Well-Known Member
giaach said:
Thank you for such a detailed response!

That one plant is definitely praying pretty aggressively but it may have changed ever so slightly.

I think I ran into a bit of a nitrogen issue out the gate hence the yellow tips and slight clawing on the right plant. Autos are so finicky with ferts and I’m running all organic with Gaia Green.

I’ll get that DLI back up and see how things go as I know 20-25 DLI is way too low in early flower/late veg.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your reply.

"I know 20-25 DLI is way too low in early flower/late veg." - I understand the reaction to "turn down the light" but I do believe it's counter-productive.

"it may have changed ever so slightly." - agree. At first it was very high angle but it has dropped. One factor may be that those were the newest leaves on the plant but, within a few hours, they had acclimated to the light level. One thing that took me some time (a couple of years) to understand is "It's a plant". I'm a long time software engineer so, after 33 years, I just think in terms of If…Then but that's just not how living things work.

"all organic with Gaia Green." - Oh, OK it's all that organic stuff. Gimme chemicals baby! ;-)
 
G

giaach

Active Member
Delps8 said:
I appreciate your reply.

"I know 20-25 DLI is way too low in early flower/late veg." - I understand the reaction to "turn down the light" but I do believe it's counter-productive.

"it may have changed ever so slightly." - agree. At first it was very high angle but it has dropped. One factor may be that those were the newest leaves on the plant but, within a few hours, they had acclimated to the light level. One thing that took me some time (a couple of years) to understand is "It's a plant". I'm a long time software engineer so, after 33 years, I just think in terms of If…Then but that's just not how living things work.

"all organic with Gaia Green." - Oh, OK it's all that organic stuff. Gimme chemicals baby! ;-)
Click to expand...
Haha I’m running organic because I heard it was easier to not over do it and less work in terms of measuring PPM etc.

Regarding the young vs older leaves acclimatizing to the light level, you can see it in some of the more mature leaves as well so I’m not sure.

Someone mentioned that it also looks like it has mild N tox. Are you seeing that as well? Honestly the other plant is doing fantastic so it’s strange to see such variance solely due to it being a different strain.

soil, light, vpd, DLI watering are all the same.
 
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Delps8

Well-Known Member
giaach said:
Haha I’m running organic because I heard it was easier to not over do it and less work in terms of measuring PPM etc.

Regarding the young vs older leaves acclimatizing to the light level, you can see it in some of the more mature leaves as well so I’m not sure.

Someone mentioned that it also looks like it has mild N tox. Are you seeing that as well? Honestly the other plant is doing fantastic so it’s strange to see such variance solely due to it being a different strain.

soil, light, vpd, DLI watering are all the same.
Click to expand...
Re. organics - just pulling your chain. I'm a software engineer (30+ years) and I'm more comfortable with the numbers side of things. Hydro + dry ferts is fine by me because it's quantifiable. Lots of growers are very happy with organic and soil and get great results.

Re. N toxicity - no question about it, the plants are…quite/very green. Is it a toxicity? I'm not that familiar with toxicities but I do know that GREEN green is a sign of too much N. Plants only need "sufficiency" levels of nutrients so, if there's a chance that your N is too high, that's something to look at remedying. If the environment is very stable, it might be as simple as cutting back a bit on the fert that's providing the N but, as I was just reading (I'm doing everything I can to avoid working this AM), it may not be as simple as cutting back on X to get less of X.

Here's the article I was reading. The proprietor of the site is a chemist who wrote HyrdoBuddy which is used to calculate nutrient ratios in chemicals. His site is about hydro but it has good info about topics that are relevant to soil, as well. Item #3 in the article is "If you want more X, then increase X in the nutrient solution". I realize that excess N is the opposite of "If you want more…" but the underlying principle is valid in nutrients because some chemicals are "agonists".

Check out this randomly selected link re "Mulder's chart". I never really delved into it (because I haven't run into nutrient issues) it explains that too much of X can lead to too little of Y being available. That may not be applicable here but it doesn't hurt to have exposure to the knowledge.

"Honestly the other plant is doing fantastic so it’s strange to see such variance solely due to it being a different strain."
Unless you're dealing with clones, all bets are off. One grow I did was three seeds. One plant was > 50", the other two were 24". Same seed packet. I refer to it as my "Twins" grow. That's why it's futile, from the perspective of scientific accuracy, for growers to do "comparison grows". There are reasons why we have pointy headed guys who work in labs where every aspect of the grow environment is controlled and documented.
 
G

giaach

Active Member
Delps8 said:
Re. organics - just pulling your chain. I'm a software engineer (30+ years) and I'm more comfortable with the numbers side of things. Hydro + dry ferts is fine by me because it's quantifiable. Lots of growers are very happy with organic and soil and get great results.

Re. N toxicity - no question about it, the plants are…quite/very green. Is it a toxicity? I'm not that familiar with toxicities but I do know that GREEN green is a sign of too much N. Plants only need "sufficiency" levels of nutrients so, if there's a chance that your N is too high, that's something to look at remedying. If the environment is very stable, it might be as simple as cutting back a bit on the fert that's providing the N but, as I was just reading (I'm doing everything I can to avoid working this AM), it may not be as simple as cutting back on X to get less of X.

Here's the article I was reading. The proprietor of the site is a chemist who wrote HyrdoBuddy which is used to calculate nutrient ratios in chemicals. His site is about hydro but it has good info about topics that are relevant to soil, as well. Item #3 in the article is "If you want more X, then increase X in the nutrient solution". I realize that excess N is the opposite of "If you want more…" but the underlying principle is valid in nutrients because some chemicals are "agonists".

Check out this randomly selected link re "Mulder's chart". I never really delved into it (because I haven't run into nutrient issues) it explains that too much of X can lead to too little of Y being available. That may not be applicable here but it doesn't hurt to have exposure to the knowledge.

"Honestly the other plant is doing fantastic so it’s strange to see such variance solely due to it being a different strain."
Unless you're dealing with clones, all bets are off. One grow I did was three seeds. One plant was > 50", the other two were 24". Same seed packet. I refer to it as my "Twins" grow. That's why it's futile, from the perspective of scientific accuracy, for growers to do "comparison grows". There are reasons why we have pointy headed guys who work in labs where every aspect of the grow environment is controlled and documented.
Click to expand...
In my very limited experience, it does seem that Autos are very susceptible to N Tox be it from PH imbalance in the soil or over feeding.
I cut back on the N when I initially built the soil but I think I was running my water at too high of a PH which in turn raised the PH of my soil above 7. I won’t flush them as that’s not recommended for organic grows but I’ll definitely feed with much lower phd water the next time to help bring it back down.

I guess at the end of the day, it’s only one seed and 3 months of growth before the next run so not a terrible loss if it goes tits up.
 
D

Delps8

Well-Known Member
giaach said:
In my very limited experience, it does seem that Autos are very susceptible to N Tox be it from PH imbalance in the soil or over feeding.
I cut back on the N when I initially built the soil but I think I was running my water at too high of a PH which in turn raised the PH of my soil above 7. I won’t flush them as that’s not recommended for organic grows but I’ll definitely feed with much lower phd water the next time to help bring it back down.

I guess at the end of the day, it’s only one seed and 3 months of growth before the next run so not a terrible loss if it goes tits up.
Click to expand...
If your experience is limited, it does seem your expertise isn't. That's good to see.

"I guess at the end of the day, it’s only one seed and 3 months of growth before the next run so not a terrible loss if it goes tits up."
Great attitude!

I botched my grow this Spring - I kept adding more and more H2O2 to the water in the humidifier to stop algae from growing and was blind to the fact that I was damaging my plant. I took that in stride and am looking forward to my Fall grow. There's always another grow to do things a little better. :-)
 
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