endorflight
Member
I use to sabotage myself setting the goals too high.
Iam not an AN fanboy, but iam tied with the line this run.
What nutrients are you using? Are you using PK booster in flower?
Cant figure it out (dry tips, sides, spots on leaves)
- Thread starter endorflight
- Start date
I use to sabotage myself setting the goals too high.
Iam not an AN fanboy, but iam tied with the line this run.
What nutrients are you using? Are you using PK booster in flower?
It happens
I'm using YaraTera products. Base fertilizer + MPK (monopotassiumphosphate) + CalNit + Magnesiumsulfate.
25kg bags each. So yea I tweak the ratios to more PK in flower.
But in general try looking from typical agriculture supply shops.
Any cannabis related product are more or less the same stuff with a lot bigger price tag.
endorflight
Member
I had an incident last night.
To measure the runoff i had detached the backflow. When i attached it back it was leaking a bit unnoticed. The water accumulated on the ground, only a little, but enough to trigger my leak detection, which then shutdown the whole system. Luckily before going to sleep i wanted to look at the dashboard again and noticed the system is offline. I had to go in during lights out, fixed it, however the night irrigation job (lower spray times at night) somehow didnt started as expected. I then disabled the night job, enabling the day job to also run at night. When i left the irrigation was running however this morning i noticed the irrigation had not ran over night. That must have been 7 hours or so without watering. That is even worse due to the active ventilation i have into my root chamber.
I thought about why the night job was not starting and then realized, it could be that the night job didnt worked correctly since i set it up like a month ago, resulting in a heavy dryback every night. Not sure, however it is possible at this point. Timely it would fit when my bigger problems began.
The plants looked a bit hurt, also root tips a bit dryed back. If it would happend during light time im sure they would be dead. Ill take that as a warning.
However, as i progressed i came to the conclusion i need DTW and runoff analysis to solve my problems "nutrient stength" and "spray times". There is just no other way as every aero system and strain is different. There will be no one coming to tell me my spray times and EC.
So, i made the DTW permanent and put one set of sensors in the waste bucket. I see the runoff values in realtime now and can make decisions. The volume of the runoff allows me to prevent underwatering.
Regarding the plants, since they were dry i let the sprayer running for a long time what flushed the root zone.
Current values:
PH-IN: 6.04
PH-OUT: 6.05
EC-IN: 1.195
EC-OUT: 1.339
Plants right now look a little bit better.
So yeah, welcome to DTW i guess, i am kind of happy with it
To measure the runoff i had detached the backflow. When i attached it back it was leaking a bit unnoticed. The water accumulated on the ground, only a little, but enough to trigger my leak detection, which then shutdown the whole system. Luckily before going to sleep i wanted to look at the dashboard again and noticed the system is offline. I had to go in during lights out, fixed it, however the night irrigation job (lower spray times at night) somehow didnt started as expected. I then disabled the night job, enabling the day job to also run at night. When i left the irrigation was running however this morning i noticed the irrigation had not ran over night. That must have been 7 hours or so without watering. That is even worse due to the active ventilation i have into my root chamber.
I thought about why the night job was not starting and then realized, it could be that the night job didnt worked correctly since i set it up like a month ago, resulting in a heavy dryback every night. Not sure, however it is possible at this point. Timely it would fit when my bigger problems began.
The plants looked a bit hurt, also root tips a bit dryed back. If it would happend during light time im sure they would be dead. Ill take that as a warning.
However, as i progressed i came to the conclusion i need DTW and runoff analysis to solve my problems "nutrient stength" and "spray times". There is just no other way as every aero system and strain is different. There will be no one coming to tell me my spray times and EC.
So, i made the DTW permanent and put one set of sensors in the waste bucket. I see the runoff values in realtime now and can make decisions. The volume of the runoff allows me to prevent underwatering.
Regarding the plants, since they were dry i let the sprayer running for a long time what flushed the root zone.
Current values:
PH-IN: 6.04
PH-OUT: 6.05
EC-IN: 1.195
EC-OUT: 1.339
Plants right now look a little bit better.
So yeah, welcome to DTW i guess, i am kind of happy with it
endorflight
Member
Despite all the problems, the buds seem to be growing a little. Iam wondering how frosty the plants are already. They are in week 4 of flowering. The strain has 8-10 weeks.
Iam tempted to cut some more leaves that are damaged, but i do not want to over defoliate. Should i?
Iam tempted to cut some more leaves that are damaged, but i do not want to over defoliate. Should i?
Attachments
Go easy with the cutting.
Just remove the ones that are most damaged.
Your canopy looks pretty good already, maybe trim some of the lower stuff that isn't getting light?
endorflight
Member
Thanks, that upped my motivation
Seems iam not fully off-track and might acutally harvest something.I cut some leaves, lower buds and branches. I tend to say the symptons on the leaves are not progressing furhter.
Runoff data this morning:
PH-IN: 6.2
PH-OUT: 5.8
EC-IN: 1.2
EC-OUT: 1.4
The runoff volume seems to be too much, so iam dailing back a bit on the spraying.
Also i upped the pressure to 160 PSI. I will try to gradually increase until i see fuzzy roots.
endorflight
Member
Still looks more like potassium deficiency symptoms.
She is probably at the stage that she is starting to munch on the PK nutes more.
View attachment 5423497
View attachment 5423495
She is probably at the stage that she is starting to munch on the PK nutes more.
View attachment 5423497
View attachment 5423495
endorflight
Member
After your comment about P def, i started to give half PK dose again.
I continued to monitor the runoff. It kept exceeding +0.3 EC so i gathered more confidence that iam overfeeding and reduced EC from 1.2 to 1.0 and later to 0.85. Also i tried to dail down the spray intervals, but it seems that made things worse again. I think i learned with very little runoff the risk of overfeeding increases. Also it seems whenever the humidity went low or i tried to increase the PPFD or tried longer drybacks the symptoms increased.
Meanwhile i see a clawing on a lot of leaves. This is a clear sign of N excess right? As iam feeding in the ratios according to the schema with bloom nutes, it is even more evident that iam overfeeding?
I continued to monitor the runoff. It kept exceeding +0.3 EC so i gathered more confidence that iam overfeeding and reduced EC from 1.2 to 1.0 and later to 0.85. Also i tried to dail down the spray intervals, but it seems that made things worse again. I think i learned with very little runoff the risk of overfeeding increases. Also it seems whenever the humidity went low or i tried to increase the PPFD or tried longer drybacks the symptoms increased.
Meanwhile i see a clawing on a lot of leaves. This is a clear sign of N excess right? As iam feeding in the ratios according to the schema with bloom nutes, it is even more evident that iam overfeeding?
Attachments
......the roots are not sitting in the nutrient solution resevoir affecting the ph and e.c......the roots are misted and that water is gone
5.6 ph to roots in air is 5.6 ph....it's not dwc.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
I am sitting over here scratching my headThanks, that upped my motivation
I cut some leaves, lower buds and branches. I tend to say the symptons on the leaves are not progressing furhter.
Runoff data this morning:
PH-IN: 6.2
PH-OUT: 5.8
EC-IN: 1.2
EC-OUT: 1.4
The runoff volume seems to be too much, so iam dailing back a bit on the spraying.
Also i upped the pressure to 160 PSI. I will try to gradually increase until i see fuzzy roots.
The idea of measuring feed input and runoff output has some validity in standard nutrient solutions but you are not using a standard nutrient solution.
The Advanced Liquid base products are intended to be run within a range of nutrient strength so there is enough of the ph buffering substances in the mix to adjust as intended.
When you were letting the system recirculate back to the reservoir what was the trend in ph?
I had a long conversation with one of the "tech's" at advanced and when pressed on which nutrient he would recommend in a water culture setting - he stated he would only recommend the Cultivator Powder Line. It is the only one that is relatively clean.
He was also telling me that connoisseur is intended only for High PPFD Co2 enhanced environments.
Could be a couple factors to take into consideration. Your probably not doing anything "wrong". The products currently being used are working against you
endorflight
Member
@OneHitDone Thanks for your input. Hello to you @Observise, iam still growing HPA and always happy to discuss.
In my second run i was back to recirculating. My third (currently running) is recirculating as well as i find it more advantageous. The main for factors for me are:
- Ability for increased airflow in the root zone with defogging of the air into the rez. This is also handling excess humidity in the root zone. HPA fog is nice until it turns into high humidity air.
- More stable/easier conclusions by reading EC/PH change in the rez instead of runoff.
- Less complexity, bascially only one EC/PH/water volume sensor needed. One tank less.
- Safetey regarding overflow/running dry in case of pump not turning of.
- Better water/nutrient usage.
- Allowance for more excess watering without penalty.
I feel most other guys favor DTW, but thats were my way has led me. Id like very much to discuss system designs.
The PH trend is: Slowly rising during veg and early flower. And then dropping stronger but managable in late flower (With two plants, ill expect it to hit harder with more on same rez size). Iam using no air stone but a circulation pump to keep the PH more stable.
With the connoisseur line, lesson learned. It contains a lot of stuff that is problematic in hydro, especially recirculating, also its not needed at all as HPA alone is giving some extra performance. In case of the GMB line i stocked up for some grows, so unlikely ill change soon. But i will consider the powder line after.
The PH buffers work quite good even at half strength or less, i think it also depends on how much pressure there is for a PH drift. As advised by their schemas for early veg there is also 1ml/L, 2ml/L instead of the full dose 4ml/L later on, so its not fully offtrack. Most of veg time i didnt had to adjust the PH at all.
In my second run i was back to recirculating. My third (currently running) is recirculating as well as i find it more advantageous. The main for factors for me are:
- Ability for increased airflow in the root zone with defogging of the air into the rez. This is also handling excess humidity in the root zone. HPA fog is nice until it turns into high humidity air.
- More stable/easier conclusions by reading EC/PH change in the rez instead of runoff.
- Less complexity, bascially only one EC/PH/water volume sensor needed. One tank less.
- Safetey regarding overflow/running dry in case of pump not turning of.
- Better water/nutrient usage.
- Allowance for more excess watering without penalty.
I feel most other guys favor DTW, but thats were my way has led me. Id like very much to discuss system designs.
The PH trend is: Slowly rising during veg and early flower. And then dropping stronger but managable in late flower (With two plants, ill expect it to hit harder with more on same rez size). Iam using no air stone but a circulation pump to keep the PH more stable.
With the connoisseur line, lesson learned. It contains a lot of stuff that is problematic in hydro, especially recirculating, also its not needed at all as HPA alone is giving some extra performance. In case of the GMB line i stocked up for some grows, so unlikely ill change soon. But i will consider the powder line after.
The PH buffers work quite good even at half strength or less, i think it also depends on how much pressure there is for a PH drift. As advised by their schemas for early veg there is also 1ml/L, 2ml/L instead of the full dose 4ml/L later on, so its not fully offtrack. Most of veg time i didnt had to adjust the PH at all.
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