The skinny on LED's please

[luckybleu]

Many of the old companies with terrible reputation had to change their game up and follow what was happening in the growing market to stay alive.

Though they are producing vastly superior lighting to what they used to, some, like mars, still like to use nonsense to sell their lights and still have poor customer service after the purchase, as well as untrustworthy figures and par maps.

But there are many who don't and many who have come from nowhere .

You'll also see that every old school hps manufacturer/brand also now do LEDs and most are offering them using the original ballasts to power them and are very cheap considering.
Though they typically are less efficient than the best.

You want to be looking at the umol/joule to see the efficiency of the fixture.

The issue is for as many as there are that are trustworthy, there's many more that are not.

In a 4x8 you want minimum 2x 480w lights up to 2x 600w lights.
Granted you could use a light mover on a bigger light, but your dli on either end of the tent would be average and centrally your dli would be far higher.

Because every man and his dog make 600s it probably would be more cost effective to get two of those over a bigger more powerful light.


Just make sure you do your research . There are environmental adjustments need making when switching from HPS to LED, but it hasn't stopped the majority who have swapped over.
But there are some who just couldn't get on with them.
For example the grower with a particularly cold climate might not appreciate having to heat the space with LED, as they don't put out the radiant heat HPS does

Umol/joule is this lumens? What should I be looking for when researching this.
Thanks.

 

[BullPower]

I'm in the same boat,building a new room also and was going to get a 1000 watt hps cool tube.My neighbor keeps telling me to get an led.If it wasn't for the heat issue I'd just go with the hps in a heartbeat.So after researching a little I'm even more confused,prices range from like 200. To 1000 for the same wattage LED.So I'll be following this thread and hopefully some people who have experience growing with LEDs can suggest and explain the differences in these prices and tell us what's the best bang for the buck.

We've decided to run a test of sorts. Going with a 10x12 room. Going to try spider farm 1000 bar led on a mover on one side, and 2 or 3 either hps or bar led on the other side and compare. Not that my half is narrowed down exactly, but it'll be one or the other. Got a feeling we be putting another something on the mover side. Gonna do a bunch of beans to find some keepers and be reveg'n some clones from our outdoor.

Probably be getting a light measurement gadget right off the bat to add where it's needed.

The multi tent option with the big bar lights seemed very limiting in my mind. But I do think a lot. Lol

 

[MtRainDog]

all the brands mentioned here, from the amazon brands (mars, spider, vipar) to hlg (diablo boards are goated imo). all can grow great dope. The technology is now the standard over HID because for most growers, the efficiency of LED vs HID makes it a no brainer.

I say that with the caveat that some people can really dial in a 1000 watt hps or these boutique CMH grows, they do incredible work, and certainly there's still a place for HID and I hope you can still buy that sort of equipment long into the future, because it's still cool as hell.

But pragmatically, there's no reason not to buy one of these LED lights.

 

[BullPower]

all the brands mentioned here, from the amazon brands (mars, spider, vipar) to hlg (diablo boards are goated imo). all can grow great dope. The technology is now the standard over HID because for most growers, the efficiency of LED vs HID makes it a no brainer.

I say that with the caveat that some people can really dial in a 1000 watt hps or these boutique CMH grows, they do incredible work, and certainly there's still a place for HID and I hope you can still buy that sort of equipment long into the future, because it's still cool as hell.

But pragmatically, there's no reason not to buy one of these LED lights.

The heat thing is my only logic and would be the only reasy why. Stand alone building.

Probably bite the bullet though and get some leds. Buddy is talking underlight and everything. Sounds like we might try a bit if everything here. Lol. I'm trying to be as inexpensive as possible myself. Let the first run pay for better stuff. Is there a light that's good for a solid 6x6 foot print? A big legit bar light that'd provide plenty?

Got one in mind. Just curious if anyone has a better idea.

We've already got oil radiator type heaters. Fans. Fan controllers. So might ad well gi the led route.

 

[coreywebster]

Umol/joule is this lumens? What should I be looking for when researching this.
Thanks.

Lumens are a measure of visible light , to our eyes. So not a great metric for grow lights.

umol/j meaning – Micromoles per Joule is a measure of how efficient a light is. It is a measure of how many micromoles of photons you get out of a grow light fixture per Joule of energy.

Generally speaking your generic LED grow light has now reached around 2.5 umol/j and your top end led lights are claiming 3.0 umols/j
( I believe a 600w hps is around 1.6umol/j)

I say claiming because on paper is not always as good as in real life.

But the higher the number the more photos per unit of energy used.

 

[BullPower]

Lumens are a measure of visible light , to our eyes. So not a great metric for grow lights.

umol/j meaning – Micromoles per Joule is a measure of how efficient a light is. It is a measure of how many micromoles of photons you get out of a grow light fixture per Joule of energy.

Generally speaking your generic LED grow light has now reached around 2.5 umol/j and your top end led lights are claiming 3.0 umols/j
( I believe a 600w hps is around 1.6umol/j)

I say claiming because on paper is not always as good as in real life.

But the higher the number the more photos per unit of energy used.

I needed that explanation. U the man!!

 

[Mumbeltypeg]

The heat thing is my only logic and would be the only reasy why. Stand alone building.

Probably bite the bullet though and get some leds. Buddy is talking underlight and everything. Sounds like we might try a bit if everything here. Lol. I'm trying to be as inexpensive as possible myself. Let the first run pay for better stuff. Is there a light that's good for a solid 6x6 foot print? A big legit bar light that'd provide plenty?

Got one in mind. Just curious if anyone has a better idea.

We've already got oil radiator type heaters. Fans. Fan controllers. So might ad well gi the led route.

I’m not really recommending them, but I have mars hydro lights.. from the sp3000- fc6500- fc8000-fc1000.. they grow awesome bud but I had wires melting on both of my FC6500 and I had to pull apart and rewire all connections myself to be safe.
Also.. I bought a second hand split system AC cheap ($100) and set it up myself..works great with the LEDs.. that constant temp is worth every penny

 

[Rocket Soul]

The heat thing is my only logic and would be the only reasy why. Stand alone building.

Probably bite the bullet though and get some leds. Buddy is talking underlight and everything. Sounds like we might try a bit if everything here. Lol. I'm trying to be as inexpensive as possible myself. Let the first run pay for better stuff. Is there a light that's good for a solid 6x6 foot print? A big legit bar light that'd provide plenty?

Got one in mind. Just curious if anyone has a better idea.

We've already got oil radiator type heaters. Fans. Fan controllers. So might ad well gi the led route.

Youre better off trying to find 4x 3x3 lights instead of one 6x6 light. A 6x6 light would need around 1200w plus good light spread; its just easier all around growing with more but smaller lights.

 

[BullPower]

I’m not really recommending them, but I have mars hydro lights.. from the sp3000- fc6500- fc8000-fc1000.. they grow awesome bud but I had wires melting on both of my FC6500 and I had to pull apart and rewire all connections myself to be safe.
Also.. I bought a second hand split system AC cheap ($100) and set it up myself..works great with the LEDs.. that constant temp is worth every penny

You make a good point there!

 

[BullPower]

Youre better off trying to find 4x 3x3 lights instead of one 6x6 light. A 6x6 light would need around 1200w plus good light spread; its just easier all around growing with more but smaller lights.

I can see what you mean. Being that there's roughly a 10x12, that breaks down to x4 5x6 quadrants to fill in. Isn't going to be filled to the max right off the jump, but should be loaded before long.

My partner is 100% getting a 1000w Spider Farm and a mover for a section. Lol. Which I'm looking forward to seeing how it do.

I'm leaning towards 600-750w bar lights. Good quality lights but I don't care about brand names. I'm looking at bang for buck. I welcome light suggestions 100%.

Am I right in thinking the bar style are much better than the panel style?

 

[MtRainDog]

I can see what you mean. Being that there's roughly a 10x12, that breaks down to x4 5x6 quadrants to fill in. Isn't going to be filled to the max right off the jump, but should be loaded before long.

My partner is 100% getting a 1000w Spider Farm and a mover for a section. Lol. Which I'm looking forward to seeing how it do.

I'm leaning towards 600-750w bar lights. Good quality lights but I don't care about brand names. I'm looking at bang for buck. I welcome light suggestions 100%.

Am I right in thinking the bar style are much better than the panel style?

I wouldn't say much better. They will give you a better spread I think, but light is complicated and raising a board to a certain height could offer equal spread, depends on the situation, but either are good. I personally love my hlg boards and have no reason to switch to bars.

You can always go the DIY route too. I have a couple DIY boards and they are great.

But if you're going to buy a brand name, then I agree with buying multiple smaller lights. If something goes wrong, you only need to send one out. If you only have one big one and something goes wrong...

 

[graying.geek]

<snip>

Am I right in thinking the bar style are much better than the panel style?

If I needed a new light, I'd be looking at a DIY build with Bridgelux gen3 strips, >40 watt/sqft, spread out to cover the entire canopy.

Strips + drivers <= $0.50/watt

IMHO, unless you want to grow xmas tree plants, stay away from the quantum boards unless they're adequately dispersed. Strips are the way to go.

 

[Rocket Soul]

+1 on diy!

Both bars/strip and boards work but id recommend running the boards around 60-80w rather than 120: more boards on less power makes for better spread and lower hanging height.
If i open space its worth considering hanging height as +12" means a lot of light wasted on your walls.

Bridgelux eb strips comes in many different spectrums and ccts if youre keen on experimenting but youd have to add reds yourself.

Also when sizing out cannopies and lights: remember you need to move around your grow and access plants, you cant have your whole space completely full.

 

[FmSwayze]

My 2 cents...on HLG

2 QB 3000k 260 KITS in a 2x4

I'll use this light start to finish. Dimmed to 100 watts the entire seedling/veg period. Didn't turn on my 2nd light until the last week of veg. Just ended week 3 of flower and still, only have each light engine 138 watts +/-

 

[BullPower]

If something goes wrong, you only need to send one out. If you only have one big one and something goes wrong...

That's something I hadn't thought about. Big thanks to you.

 

[Jimski]

I am a small tent grower but I did a lot of experimenting with my lights. My tent came with a 150 watt light with the fan in the middle and when I used the 338bt tool to map grid I found a map that was very similar to the map online. It had a hot spot of +22% and the edges were over 40% reduced. Look I dont care how you level that canopy with lights like that you are not getting even lighting and not getting even growth.
So I bought another of the same light. The idea came to me when I superimposed 2 maps on the table and pointed them slightly left and right from centerline by sliding one left a grid and one right a grid.
The use of 2 of the same lights with this configuration showed a canopy grid as level as any long multi tube setup just a much smaller footprint. I have not seen a single panel for a 3x3 with a footprint much better than what I get. Hope it works as designed.
And yes I used popsickle sticks on the top of the light to nudge it back and forth. Much data was had by all......

 

[luckybleu]

Lumens are a measure of visible light , to our eyes. So not a great metric for grow lights.

umol/j meaning – Micromoles per Joule is a measure of how efficient a light is. It is a measure of how many micromoles of photons you get out of a grow light fixture per Joule of energy.

Generally speaking your generic LED grow light has now reached around 2.5 umol/j and your top end led lights are claiming 3.0 umols/j
( I believe a 600w hps is around 1.6umol/j)

I say claiming because on paper is not always as good as in real life.

But the higher the number the more photos per unit of energy used.

Great answer,thanks