Could someone please tell me what's wrong with my plant.

[StareCase]

... Chickity China, the Chinese chicken. You have a drumstick and your brain stops tickin' ...

This will now be stuck in my brain for one week ...

 

[Get Glass Distribution 77]

I'm growing 5 plants. And two of them are exhibiting problems. I'd greatly appreciate any guidance on the subject.

Here are some pictures of the first plant...

For some reason the images did not show up. Size limit? I'll try to figure it out and repost them in this thread.

Sound like you're experiencing some nutrient-related or environmentally triggered issues. Not having the picture, it's a bit tough to say for sure, but most common issues such as yellowing leaves, or burnt tips most likely end up being from overwatering, a nutrient deficiency, and inconsistent pH. First, check your pH levels and nutrient mix. Also, make sure the soil is draining okay. Looking forward to seeing the pics when you can post them!

 

[GeneralTso]

Sound like you're experiencing some nutrient-related or environmentally triggered issues. Not having the picture, it's a bit tough to say for sure, but most common issues such as yellowing leaves, or burnt tips most likely end up being from overwatering, a nutrient deficiency, and inconsistent pH. First, check your pH levels and nutrient mix. Also, make sure the soil is draining okay. Looking forward to seeing the pics when you can post them!

Thank you for the reply.

I was able to get the pictures to work...

Could someone please tell me what's wrong with my plant.

I'm growing 5 plants. And two of them are exhibiting problems. I'd greatly appreciate any guidance on the subject. Here are some pictures of the first plant... For some reason the images did not show up. Size limit? I'll try to figure it out and repost them in this thread.

www.rollitup.org

Could someone please tell me what's wrong with my plant.

I'm growing 5 plants. And two of them are exhibiting problems. I'd greatly appreciate any guidance on the subject. Here are some pictures of the first plant... For some reason the images did not show up. Size limit? I'll try to figure it out and repost them in this thread.

www.rollitup.org

 

[GeneralTso]

I found something I was doing wrong. But I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the problems shown in the pictures I posted. So I thought I'd ask about it.

I switched from 5 gallon flower pots to 10 gallon pots this year. But I kept water and nutrient levels the same as in the past. I just realized that the larger pots need more water. So even though the plants where only showing very minor signs of drooping leaves. I think I was actually underwatering the plants by quite a bit.

So I have two questions.

1. Could underwatering the plants cause the problems displayed in my pictures?

2. Should I increase the amount of nutrients because I increased the pot size from 5 to 10 gallons. (Everything else is the same including the size of the plants.)

 

[FmSwayze]

I found something I was doing wrong. But I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the problems shown in the pictures I posted. So I thought I'd ask about it.

I switched from 5 gallon flower pots to 10 gallon pots this year. But I kept water and nutrient levels the same as in the past. I just realized that the larger pots need more water. So even though the plants where only showing very minor signs of drooping leaves. I think I was actually underwatering the plants by quite a bit.

So I have two questions.

1. Could underwatering the plants cause the problems displayed in my pictures?

2. Should I increase the amount of nutrients because I increased the pot size from 5 to 10 gallons. (Everything else is the same including the size of the plants.)

Great observation!

 

[GeneralTso]

Judging from what people said in response to my questions. I think it might of been a combination of 3 things that where causing the problem.

1. Light burn. I'm still getting used to my "new" LED's. earlier in the grow. I had slowly increased the light level from 50% to 100% over a period of time. Once the problem showed up. I reduced to 80% in several different steps.

2. Do to having changed the flower pot size. I was unintentionally underwatering the plants. I have since increased the amount of water by a significant amount.

3. The plants are getting old. I guess I can't do a while lot about that.

I included two images. One of each plant that's having a problem. The rate that the problem was advancing seems to have slowed. So I guess one or both of the changes I did must have helped.

As a side note. I also had some good news. When I looked at the trichomes they appear to be maturing at a more even rate for some reason. By that I mean that of them are turning cloudy at the same time. Usually I have a problem where they age unevenly and I have to let the plants grow longer that they should just to get the trichomes looking right. I also included a images of the trichomes on the second plant. As you can see they are relatively even in "ripeness".

 

[Fatjoe]

Man I'm not seeing it. These plants look great.

I see normal fading with color moving in at mid to late flower. Looks like ya should be on cruise control instead of fretting over a few leaves.

Water needs increase normally during flower. Doesn't really matter what size pot it is. If your watering to run off your good to go.

Your tweaking as ya go and doing a great job. Try not to over think some of this stuff. Let nature do her thing. Your plants look great.

 

[tehdansauce]

I agree that they look fairly health. Under-watering will cause a spike in EC resulting in nutrient burn. Check your ph and ppm/ec of your runoff. They might only have 2 or 3 weeks left. I’ve read and noticed LED lights especially too close will tend to have a magnesium deficiency. Might be the cause of the purple/red stems. Low runoff PH will also lock it out or too much Calcium or Potassium.

 

[GeneralTso]

Thank you everybody for the replies!

Part of the reason I kind of panicked was because I've had a few problems over the last couple of years getting used to LEDs after using T5s for a long time. (They are the exact opposites as far as light burn is concerned.)

The other reason I was worried was because during that same time. I have also been having problems with the trichomes on my plants not maturing quickly enough. (They where also maturing more unevenly then normal with amber trichomes and a lot of clear trichomes on the same plant.). And I had to keep my plants growing well past the point where they are normally harvested. So I thought I'd have to keep this years plants alive for a much longer time. But looking at this year's trichomes they seems to be doing better with "ripening" on time. The two things I did different this year was doubling the flower pot size and reducing the light level on the LEDs from 100% to 80%.

I wonder if reducing the light level helped with the trichome problem?

 

[FmSwayze]

Thank you everybody for the replies!

Part of the reason I kind of panicked was because I've had a few problems over the last couple of years getting used to LEDs after using T5s for a long time. (They are the exact opposites as far as light burn is concerned.)

The other reason I was worried was because during that same time. I have also been having problems with the trichomes on my plants not maturing quickly enough. (They where also maturing more unevenly then normal with amber trichomes and a lot of clear trichomes on the same plant.). And I had to keep my plants growing well past the point where they are normally harvested. So I thought I'd have to keep this years plants alive for a much longer time. But looking at this year's trichomes they seems to be doing better with "ripening" on time. The two things I did different this year was doubling the flower pot size and reducing the light level on the LEDs from 100% to 80%.

I wonder if reducing the light level helped with the trichome problem?

I think the reduction on intensity did help. I've noticed my trichome heads are more intact after backing down my lights. Great observations! Beautiful too!

 

[Jimski]

I think the reduction on intensity did help. I've noticed my trichome heads are more intact after backing down my lights. Great observations! Beautiful too!

A lot of times lower light is lower temp.
So many camnabis university programes have found out that hi temps in late flower lower tricome and resin production for yield increases. Some Indica pnenos were knocked down 7% total thc above 80 degrees. The use of CO 2 did not change the outcome.
And with all the data and all the money spent to verify the data we still see people posting 82 degree tent temps.

 

[FmSwayze]

A lot of times lower light is lower temp.
So many camnabis university programes have found out that hi temps in late flower lower tricome and resin production for yield increases. Some Indica pnenos were knocked down 7% total thc above 80 degrees. The use of CO 2 did not change the outcome.
And with all the data and all the money spent to verify the data we still see people posting 82 degree tent temps.

I think it's cool that they are studying and collecting data. However, 99% of home/hobby growers are going to be limited by resources, knowledge and equipment. Some things will be applicable, but most of it will be forum rhetoric.

 

[GeneralTso]

Thank you everybody for the replies concerning lights/temps/trichomes etc. I expect to keep the lights at 80% for the rest of this grow. And do something similar next year. I was making a mistake by turning them up to high.

I loved the t5's back when I used them. But they gave me the habit of trying to get as much light power as possible. The LED's are much more flexible it that regard. I just have to use that flexibility properly.

 

[Delps8]

The two things I did different this year was doubling the flower pot size and reducing the light level on the LEDs from 100% to 80%.

I wonder if reducing the light level helped with the trichome problem?

In a roundabout way, yes.

Light is an input into photosynthesis which generates glucose which is required for growth. Thus, reducing PPFD will tend to reduce metabolism which will result in a reduced level of primary and secondary metabolites. Cannabanoids are a secondary metabolite so a reduction in light will tend to reduce the production of cannabanoids.

Grow lights put out photons and they also generate heat. While increased light levels result an increase of metabolites, increased heat leads to a reduction in the level of cannabanoids.

Mitch Westmoreland reported this in 2020 in the video below. As you can see, it's only had 430 views so it didn't get widespread play.

My notes from his 2020 - "CBD and THC were 'cut in half basically'. We don't have a good explanation for this right now. We're going to see if we can reproduce this and see if we can come up with an explanation for what's going on."

Late last year, he dropped a pair of videos about some of the research he's done for this PhD and he presents his arguments very clearly.

The graphic below is a screenshot from the more recent video.



All research I've read demonstrates an almost linear relationship between between yield and DLI with no decrease in cannabanoids or terpenes. In contrast, Westmoreland has presented research that shows that a change in temperature in flower wreaks havoc (my words) on cannabanoids.

If you watch the newer videos, he states that different strains responds to the 78° threshold differently but he stresses that 78 is the upper limit (at the flower tops) after the second week, or so, in flower.

With this research in mind, I would suggest that lowering the light intensity had a slightly, perhaps immeasurable, negative effect on yield but had a positive impact on cannabanoids because the lower PPFD levels were a result of reducing hang height or input power which resulted in lower flower temps which resulted in the preservation of existing cannabanoids.

 

[Delps8]

A lot of times lower light is lower temp.
So many camnabis university programes have found out that hi temps in late flower lower tricome and resin production for yield increases. Some Indica pnenos were knocked down 7% total thc above 80 degrees. The use of CO 2 did not change the outcome.
And with all the data and all the money spent to verify the data we still see people posting 82 degree tent temps.

Westmoreland advises up to 85° until the second week in flower. Then drop to 78-80. Those are the temps when using CO2. For ambient, those temps should drop 5°± (F). The temperature in question is the temperature of the flower tops.

 

[GeneralTso]

In a roundabout way, yes.

Light is an input into photosynthesis which generates glucose which is required for growth. Thus, reducing PPFD will tend to reduce metabolism which will result in a reduced level of primary and secondary metabolites. Cannabanoids are a secondary metabolite so a reduction in light will tend to reduce the production of cannabanoids.

Grow lights put out photons and they also generate heat. While increased light levels result an increase of metabolites, increased heat leads to a reduction in the level of cannabanoids.

Mitch Westmoreland reported this in 2020 in the video below. As you can see, it's only had 430 views so it didn't get widespread play.

My notes from his 2020 - "CBD and THC were 'cut in half basically'. We don't have a good explanation for this right now. We're going to see if we can reproduce this and see if we can come up with an explanation for what's going on."

Late last year, he dropped a pair of videos about some of the research he's done for this PhD and he presents his arguments very clearly.

The graphic below is a screenshot from the more recent video.

View attachment 5435539

All research I've read demonstrates an almost linear relationship between between yield and DLI with no decrease in cannabanoids or terpenes. In contrast, Westmoreland has presented research that shows that a change in temperature in flower wreaks havoc (my words) on cannabanoids.

If you watch the newer videos, he states that different strains responds to the 78° threshold differently but he stresses that 78 is the upper limit (at the flower tops) after the second week, or so, in flower.

With this research in mind, I would suggest that lowering the light intensity had a slightly, perhaps immeasurable, negative effect on yield but had a positive impact on cannabanoids because the lower PPFD levels were a result of reducing hang height or input power which resulted in lower flower temps which resulted in the preservation of existing cannabanoids.

Thank You! That tells me a lot and matches what I experienced so far. I really like that graph. I'm going to keep that around.

I now realize that last year I had the lights set to high. And it messed up the results. Even though the buds where covered in trichomes. The pot seemed to be weaker than it should have been. And the trichome took forever to turn cloudy at the end of flowering.

This year I turned the lights up again. But changed my mind and turned them back down again about a week later. Do to a combination of the outside temperature dropping in my area. And me reducing the the light level. My temperature just below the lights dropped from 82 degrees to 76 degrees. It looks like things are working a lot better since I did that. Next year I'll plan on doing it like this from the start.

 

[Delps8]

Thank You! That tells me a lot and matches what I experienced so far. I really like that graph. I'm going to keep that around.

Glad that you found it helpful. I took a few screenshots when I watched that video.

The video that Westmoreland released a year ago is a superb. I've spent a lot of time learning about grow lighting but, if someone wants just to know "do this", the 49 minute video is a gold mine.

I now realize that last year I had the lights set to high. And it messed up the results. Even though the buds where covered in trichomes. The pot seemed to be weaker than it should have been. And the trichome took forever to turn cloudy at the end of flowering.

Same here. This was from one grow. Lots of flower but temps were in the 80's so it didn't have the kick the store bought has. I've changed tactics for my current grow so we'll see how things work out. And it's ironic because I don't use cannabis anymore.

This year I turned the lights up again. But changed my mind and turned them back down again about a week later. Do to a combination of the outside temperature dropping in my area. And me reducing the the light level. My temperature just below the lights dropped from 82 degrees to 76 degrees. It looks like things are working a lot better since I did that. Next year I'll plan on doing it like this from the start.

Glad things are looking better. If you keep a journal, it'll be easier to do things in the next grow. I use Excel, per below.

"level" is water level, "start" and "end" are start and end run times for my pH doser. "4.6" is week number and day number.

The text sometimes helps me figure things out now and may come in handy in future grows.