Is this ViparSpectra p4000 light an upgrade to my 2018 LED?

[twalte]

Hello fellow growers,
I have a 320 watt Timber 3vl cob grow light that I purchased in 2018. I use it in a 2x4 tent with the AC Infinity controller system. It works well and I have no complaints about the quality. It is only 40 watts per square foot which seems underpowered for flowering using the old guidelines with HID lighting. The old guideline was up to 60 watts per square foot. Timber was a high quality brand when it existed but it is probably old tech now.

I see a hot Black Friday price ($259) for an entry level ViparSpectra P4000. It’s ideally designed for a 3x5 but it will fit in a 2x4. It uses less expensive diodes (bridgelux?) and transformers, but it puts out 420 watts compared to the 320 watts. It also has a variety of different types of bulbs versus the cobs on my current unit. I consulted an artificial intelligence app to explain the differences and received this summary. However, I still do not know if my grow would benefit from this new lamp. (https://a.co/d/2iISIIX)

For the lighting experts here, Is this a worthwhile investment in my grow, or is there very little difference expected in flowering? Has LED technology advanced enough to make this a worthwhile purchase? Does an extra 80 watts make a difference? Is it worth an extra hundred dollars if I can upgrade to Meanwell drivers and LM301b Samsung diodes? Does this different light spectrum make any difference? I’m at a loss and would appreciate any help you can provide.

Thanks in advance for the guidance.

 

[Greengrouch]

It’ll do fine, not a great flowering spectrum though. Not enough red.

 

[Greengrouch]

Also we’re not using watts/sqft in 2024. It’s umol/m2. There are 240w lights that can flower a 2x4 nowadays

 

[twalte]

It’ll do fine, not a great flowering spectrum though. Not enough red.

Thank you Greengrouch……I was hoping for a good flowering spectrum. Back to researching lamps. Are there any flowering lamps that you like for a 2x4?

 

[twalte]

Also we’re not using watts/sqft in 2024. It’s umol/m2. There are 240w lights that can flower a 2x4 nowadays

Yes, I’m definitely uneducated on this topic which makes the decision even more difficult. Thanks for the education.

 

[Greengrouch]

Thank you Greengrouch……I was hoping for a good flowering spectrum. Back to researching lamps. Are there any flowering lamps that you like for a 2x4?

Any of the longer form factor 300w mars hydros will do fine, same with spider farmer. I’m using a kind x420 in mine but I have a mars hydro fce6500 in storage with my 5x5. It grew some pretty damn good weed. The kind does put out cmh quality bud though so I feel like it was worth the higher price

 

[twalte]

Thanks again for your help Greengrouch. I changed direction entirely and looked for good red representation in the spectrum. I went with the new Spider Farmer SE4500. My flowers thank you too.

Here’s the spectrum on the SE4500 vs the ViparSpectra p4000 and the AC Infinity Evo3. I’m glad you pointed this out!!

Spider Farmer - 320 watts - Samsung EVO diodes, far red and red spectrum



ViparSpectra P4000 - 420 watts! Bridgelux diodes


AC Infinity Ionframe Evo3

 

[tstick]

You COULD get three Viparspectra XS 1500Pro....That would give you max 450 watts and the ability to modulate each light to fit your space. I have two of them and they are great lights. I can't comment on the other models, but, so far, Viparspectra has been a good brand for me.

Another light to consider is the HLG 300 RS. I have one. It is a rectangular shaped fixture so it would be ideal for a 2 X 4.

 

[Delps8]

Thanks again for your help Greengrouch. I changed direction entirely and looked for good red representation in the spectrum. I went with the new Spider Farmer SE4500. My flowers thank you too.

Here’s the spectrum on the SE4500 vs the ViparSpectra p4000 and the AC Infinity Evo3. I’m glad you pointed this out!!

Spider Farmer - 320 watts - Samsung EVO diodes, far red and red spectrum
View attachment 5441196
View attachment 5441199

ViparSpectra P4000 - 420 watts! Bridgelux diodes
View attachment 5441197

AC Infinity Ionframe Evo3
View attachment 5441198
View attachment 5441200

The SE and G4500 have a great spectrum and their driver size is pretty good. If you want to change them into "outstanding", add a pair of Spider GlowR80's.

You'll get a lot more PPFD at lower power input with lower heat being generated and you'll get a huge boost in deep red which is where the action is in terms of increased yield.

The gory details:

My grow is in a 2' x 4' and I did an extensive search for a replacement for my Growcraft flower light. The Growcraft is from 2020 and the PPFD map isn't what I wanted so I looked at the SE/G4500 and even bought and tested the Mars SP3000R, which is a dedicated flower light.

Lots of hours spent analyzing PPFD maps and decided to stick with what I've got.

This summer, Vipar gelded the SE/G4500—they changed the driver from 430 watts to 320 so max PPFD dropped to what you see in their charts now. The older light was 1500± at 12" which means I could run it at 1kµmol at 18" but the sumbitches pulled those models off the market before I could buy one. Why they did that is a separate discussion but the deed is done.

The Mars SP 3000R has an HPS-like spectrum but a lousy PPFD map and it run very, very hot.

The net net is that I did a lot of research and some testing but ended up with my dick thumb in my ear and went back to my 2020 Growcraft.

My goal was to be able to deliver 1kµmol across the canopy with a hang height of 18". These criteria were in line with the research that Mitch Westmoreland shared in his YT video that dropped about a year ago. He's a PhD student under Bugbee and his advice is to give plants as much light as possible at up to 85° until the second week in flower and then keep temps of the flower tops <78, at most. That's not an easy task and I wasn't able to find a light to do that once the SE/G 4500's got knackered.



Until…

(there is a point to all this)

I've looked askance at add on lights. My (incorrect) thinking that they were on the market because grow lights are now a commodity product and vendors are doing any and everything they can to turn a profit in a "race to the bottom" market. When they came out, PPFD data was nowhere to be found and, at only 40 (or 80) watts, I assumed that they weren't generating a lot of light so I skipped them.

Well, an assumption is the mother of all f'ups, right?

A couple of weeks ago, I revisited Mars and Vipar and others and they're publishing PPFD maps. So, fire up the credit card and a set of Vipar Glowr80's are now nestled between the light bars of my Growcraft.

How much light, you ask?

Remember, it's just not the size of the light; it's the frequency of the photons, as well.

With a hang height of about 12", the R80's are putting about 290µmol on the canopy. (I use an Apogee). The canopy is at 950±µmol so 290 is a nice addition but the key point is that it's 290µmol of 660nm photons. That 290µmol goes right into 660nm peak of the Growcraft and helps move the spectrum from the one shown below very much in the direction of the HPS-like spectrum of the SP3000R shown below.



Mars SP3000R a dedicated "greenhouse" flower light. Lots of light at 660, just enough blue to avoid misshaped plants but lots of heat and an anorexic PPFD map




The other issue with the R80's is that red diodes are electrically efficient and I've been able to turn my Growcraft down from 300-330 watts to 170 watts. The R80's consume 80 watts and am getting pretty much the same PPFD but I'm also seeing a decrease in tent temperature of about 2°.

Adding the R80's to pretty much any grow light is, to me, a "high light" grower, a total no-brainer*. Vendors sell 40 watt lights and Spider recommends the R80's only for their larger (4' and 5') lights but they offer no rationale for their advice. The R80's are about 39" long so they won't fit in a 2' tent (duh) but, other than the physical size of the R80, I can't think of a reason not to run them. The only issue that I'm aware of with adding a lot of 660 is has to do with the other end of the spectrum, the blue photon percentage. In one of the Bugbee research papers there's a reference to needing at least 4% blue to avoid abnormal growth in plants. But adding in the R80's should be an issue.




*HLG has R spec lights with a lot of red. I suspect that adding the R80 would not push the blue % below 4% and they would do a lot to even out the PPFD map.