Leaf to bud ratio

[GreenThumbSucker]

Hi, I am in budding now using GH nutes at a ratio of 1-2-3, 1 grow, 2 micro, 3 bloom. I do not want the finished product to have a high leaf to bud ratio. They are ten days into flowering and have tripled in amount of plant material since I turned them.

What is a good nute ratio to achieve a relatively low leaf to bud ratio and slow them from getting vegetating further? They have stretched beyond my wildest dreams but they seem to be vegetating still, unabated. I have had to remove two plants already to give them room to grow.

How to deal with this 'problem?'

GTS

 

[freddythekruger]

what do you mean by "leaf to bud ratio"?

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

The ratio of the amount of leaf at harvest to amount of bud at harvest

 

[rolln1up]

more leaves provide the plant with more energy and more bud what u are asking won't work

 

[Sure Shot]

Its not a problem it's genetics. Each strain has specific characteristics that define it as a strain. The main differences are the short, bushy "Indicas". Or tall, skinny "Sativas".
Different strain produce different unique leaves and flowers.

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

more leaves provide the plant with more energy and more bud what u are asking won't work

I have grown a 'dirt' crop in a closet that produced 29 oz bud and 6 oz shade leaves and trimmings, a very high bud to leaf ratio. I achieved this by decreasing N to almost nothing once the closet was filled to capacity. When Shaders were threatening to die from lack on N, I would foliar feed them to stop them from dropping. Obviously you didnt understand what I was asking.

Im talking about dialing back a little on the ratio of N to P as the buds mature, thus producing less leaf on the buds as they mature. Im not talking about stopping leaf production. Ive seen threads on doing so with hydroponics in the past, just cant remember where I saw it.

 

[Slab]

I don't think what you're asking can be done by altering nutrients.
More focus on flowering production with the help of nutrients yes, like rolln up said you really can't have one without the other.
Less leaf will mean less bud.

Letting the plant FULLY mature will elliminate alot of leaf. not to mention the ones that fall off

I use GH also, no need for Grow. are you aware of the lucas formula?

 

[freddythekruger]

why does the amount of leaf material bother you? its not like its one or the other... i think you are mistaken in your logic good sir...

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

why does the amount of leaf material bother you? its not like its one or the other... i think you are mistaken in your logic good sir...

Apparently you dont understand what I am asking. It is rather simple and I have done it with dirt grows with good results. I have read bout it being done with hydroponics.

And besides, who wants leafy bud? Not me.

 

[Bullethead21]

Apparently you dont understand the answer that has been given to you!

Indicas grow short fat and bushy...Sativa grows tall and skinny. Amount of light can reduce strecthing!

There is very little you can do to control the plants growth.....its genetic and that wll decide how tall....ect...

YOu can do some things like "training" or "super cropping" to control growth but thats about it...(LST, lollipop)....

depriving them of N is only doing just that..depriving the plant of needed Nitrogen.....not wise!

ITS GENETICS!!!

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

I don't think what you're asking can be done by altering nutrients.
More focus on flowering production with the help of nutrients yes, like rolln up said you really can't have one without the other.
Less leaf will mean less bud.

Letting the plant FULLY mature will elliminate alot of leaf. not to mention the ones that fall off

I use GH also, no need for Grow. are you aware of the lucas formula?

I just looked up Lucas formula. This formula does what I am asking.

the 1-2-3 formula (using GH) gives a 3 to 4 - N to P ratio, which is a lot of N for flowering, IMHO.

the Lucas is essentially a 1 micro to 2 bloom ratio, which is what Im looking for. I will probabally taper the micro down slightly as they mature and see how they react.

Awesome, thank you!

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

Apparently you dont understand the answer that has been given to you!

Indicas grow short fat and bushy...Sativa grows tall and skinny. Amount of light can reduce strecthing!

There is very little you can do to control the plants growth.....its genetic and that wll decide how tall....ect...

YOu can do some things like "training" or "super cropping" to control growth but thats about it...(LST, lollipop)....

depriving them of N is only doing just that..depriving the plant of needed Nitrogen.....not wise!

ITS GENETICS!!!

Actually I understand completely, I know all about indica and sativa. That is not what I was talking about. High nitrogen during flowering increases stretching, which I seek to lessen. I found the answer to what I was asking in this thread, which gave me the Lucas formula, which led me to another board, that address EXACTLY what I was asking about.

See it here:
http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/52768-lucas-formula.html

"Gluteous, the lucas formula is General Hydroponics (GH) fertilizers for hydroponics. If you use the formula on the bottle, you will be giving the plants too much nitrogen and they will stretch alot. Most hydro growers have limited space and don't want really tall growth, besides the plant will develop a weak stem and need support. You will only need to buy the micro and bloom bottles without the grow. They work really well, they're cheap (relatively) and alot of experienced growers use it. Does that anwser your question?"

That is what I was talking about, sorry if I confused you.

-GTS

 

[StinkBud]

Your plants will always stretch for the first 2-3 weeks in flower. It's not uncommon to see plants stretch to 5x their starting height in just 10 days.

Your buds will fill in just fine bro. It's way too early to tell anything anyway.

One option is CO2. It helps keep the stretch down. It also makes the stems thicker. But the plants grow so fast using CO2 that they end up the same height anyway.

Remember, your buds won't thicken up for at least 6-8 weeks depending on the strain. Sativa strains can take over 10 weeks to bulk up. On the other hand a pure Indica can be rock hard in a matter of 6 weeks.

I use the Botanicare line of organic nutrients. It makes my buds taste like candy. If you follow the directions you will see that they phase into more P and less N as you go into flower.

Here is my veg formula:
Botanicare Nutrients:
126ML Cal-Mag Plus
180ML Liquid Karma
540ML Pure Bend Pro Vegetative Formula

Here is my flower formula:
Botanicare Nutrients:
126ml Cal-Mag Plus
150ml Sweet
180ml Liquid Karma
540mlL Pure Bend Pro Bloom

I always leach with clearex and then flush for 2 weeks before harvest.

Instructions: https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/116859-harvest-pound-every-three-weeks-75.html

 

[Slab]

I just looked up Lucas formula. This formula does what I am asking.

the 1-2-3 formula (using GH) gives a 3 to 4 - N to P ratio, which is a lot of N for flowering, IMHO.

the Lucas is essentially a 1 micro to 2 bloom ratio, which is what Im looking for. I will probabally taper the micro down slightly as they mature and see how they react.

Awesome, thank you!

You are welcome GTS. i found the formula in a post on another board by it's creator. a women which I found to be interesting. searching for that article is a good idea, goes in depth on how to calculate add backs with nutrients and never need to change the res. some need for epsom salt also if my three brain cells serve me correctly.

I having been looking around on sativa and sativa dom techniques to shorten the flowering transition time. Greenhouse gives their haze 72 hrs of darkness before 12/12 to contend with the stretch. lucky fecks, get to "experiment".

Found this neat lil gem also, but with your mention of ratios you might already have came across it. the 40/60 rule. the darn thing was dead on my last cycle. Number of days spent stretching will give you est.finish time. http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/index.html

 

[Sif1]

I have grown a 'dirt' crop in a closet that produced 29 oz bud and 6 oz shade leaves and trimmings, a very high bud to leaf ratio. I achieved this by decreasing N to almost nothing once the closet was filled to capacity. When Shaders were threatening to die from lack on N, I would foliar feed them to stop them from dropping. Obviously you didnt understand what I was asking.

Im talking about dialing back a little on the ratio of N to P as the buds mature, thus producing less leaf on the buds as they mature. Im not talking about stopping leaf production. Ive seen threads on doing so with hydroponics in the past, just cant remember where I saw it.

Great advice. I've been using GH 1 parts. Maxi Grow, Maxi Bloom , f all N in Maxi Bloom, the finishing with the Ripening formula. When going into flower I spray with a diluted seaweed mix every day for two weeks, Creates a great buds set. Add some Fulvic acid and have also upped the Guano. And flush the week on change over. 3 x 600 w hps = 5.3lb.

 

[Mirrors]

Google Caylx To Leaf Ratio. Its the genetics, im pretty sure. I have a huge Runtz Muffin (70% Indica / 30% Sativa) and its looking like what im guessing your talking about.

Also, if your EC is too high and you experience nutrient lockout that'll also affect the Bud to Leaf ratio.

 

[Cheesemond]

It's not entirely genetics, as I had 2 clones, one of which I threw out to flower young and the other I kept vegging.

The one I threw out to flower early had great bud to leaf ratio. It was my first grow and I used the lucus formula without many additives.

The second clone that was much larger had a ton of leaves in the buds, but I was playing around with additives. I didn't add any nitrogen, but I did reduce the bloom formula a little to fit in additives. So maybe it is the nitrogen to phosphorus ratio that matters.