How important is ventilation?

[koolaidflavormix]

Whats up guys I've been hanging around the forum for a few days now and I think I've settled on setting up a SOG grow using a 315 watt CFL ballast with a red spectrum (17,000 lumens) soil/perlite mix, maybe some foxfarm later in flowering, etc.

I want to try and put 10-15 plants under the light and get them to grow as "budsicles"

My concern is that I've got a large oscillating fan and another stationary one thats's quite a bit smaller and that's about it for my air flow, I've got no choice but to keep the plants sealed in their closet where there's no fresh air flow.

Would it help to cuppliment their CO2 by spraying fizzy water or getting a tank?

Is there anything else I can do to help?

DOES IT EVEN MATTER?

Your imput is much appreciated guys.
Peace, Koolaid

 

[Nocturn3]

I wouldn't advise an unventilated setup, unless you go all out with CO2 monitoring and control gear etc, and even then, you will need to vent occasionally.

Ventilation is the second most important component of a grow, in my opinion. Why do you feel you have to seal the plants in, anyway? Surely there is a way around it?

 

[richjames]

Ya, open the door when noone's around or somethin. U probly wouldn't make it in that closet very long, I doubt the plants will either.

 

[Hayduke]

IMHO, you should only use the amount of lighting that you can keep cool. Adding more light that increases the heat is not a good trade off if the heat goes above 82-84f

Here is my unasked for $0.02 CFL's are NOT cool! (temp wise). they are not a "green" alternative in your garden. They are green to use around your home.

 

[koolaidflavormix]

I can leave the closet door open I just mean that I have no real way of venting in outside air. I'm also concerned about odor issues.

 

[koolaidflavormix]

IMHO, you should only use the amount of lighting that you can keep cool. Adding more light that increases the heat is not a good trade off if the heat goes above 82-84f

Here is my unasked for $0.02 CFL's are NOT cool! (temp wise). they are not a "green" alternative in your garden. They are green to use around your home.

They are a lot cooler than HPS or MH though.....

 

[desertrat]

this is imho the toughest part of growing indoors:

you MUST have (ventilation plus odor killer)
OR
(co2 plus AirConditioning)

no other options

 

[Nocturn3]

A hole in the bottom of the door, combined with a fan and carbon filter at the top, and your odour and ventilation issues will both be solved. You don't need to bring in fresh air from outside necessarily. Air from the room that the closet is in will do fine.

Just open a window for a small amount of time every day, to freshen the air in the room.

 

[Picasso345]

I can leave the closet door open I just mean that I have no real way of venting in outside air. I'm also concerned about odor issues.

Yes you are are going to have "odor issues". Especially if you don't vent. It doesn't have to be outside air, it can be air from your room. And you need a carbon filter to run the air through otherwise that closet is going to heat up and reek of marijuana if you plan on just leaving all that air in there to sit and stew in its own juices.

 

[OregonMeds]

Dude first thing I want is a link to this monster cfl ballast. 315w 17k lumen? That must be new please show us.

Also, it doesn't matter what kind of light it is, you're still putting out a ton of power as heat. With all types way more goes to heat than light and what I mean is you just bought a bulb that burns 315w but puts out less lumens than a 150w hps, so you do the math on how inneficient that is...

You will have to keep that door open with a fan blowing out all the time the light is on. If you must close the door during it's normal lights on cycle you will have to go all the way down to like two little 42w cfl's or something. Even 5 42w cfl's will cook the plant in a closet, they can't handle temps that high you want them in the 70's and 80's.

Use a thermometer and climb in there with the door closed and watch it for a while.

 

[OregonMeds]

They are a lot cooler than HPS or MH though.....

No this is a common myth. They aren't.

He is burning 315w of power and getting less lumens than a 150w hps throws. Think again. Which is turning more into heat than light? (that's how they all work, if it's not light, power used comes out as heat.)

 

[Smash]

why not just use a 400 watt hps?

 

[Nocturn3]

No this is a common myth. They aren't.

He is burning 315w of power and getting less lumens than 150w hps. Think again which is turning more into heat than light?

Yep, this is correct. HPS/MH feel hotter since they produce more radiated heat in the area around the bulb, but the equivalent wattage of CFL will produce more heat overall in the room. The heat from CFL is spread over a larger surface area, and is convected rather than radiated, which is why they feel cooler when you put your hand near them. This doesn't mean that they produce less overall heat though. Quite the opposite is true.

All lighting turns electricity to two things: light and heat. Since HPS/MH produce more light than CFLs, there is less energy left over that is turned to heat.

 

[Hayduke]

They are a lot cooler than HPS or MH though.....

I disagree! And I do so from personal experience.

If you consider the "equivalent" watts ex. 1 42w cfl=150w incandescent then yes 3 42w cfls are much cooler. However 10-42w cfl's are hot as hell! and need to be placed so close to plants that keeping them cool is a major chore.
And 420w of cfls do not even compare to 400w MH/HPS if lumens could be considered it would be about half as many lumens...So where is all that energy going if it is not going to produce foot candles of light?...That's right it is going to HEAT!

My 2x3 box would be over 100f in minutes of lights on. With my aircooled 400w hps I can run it with the door on for 30-40 min without going over 84f and 9166 lumens as opposed to 4500.

Don't get me wrong they work well if kept close to plants and kept cool, but are absolutely not a cheap or cool alternative to hid, just another alternative for attempting to create indoor sun.

 

[Hayduke]

Sorry I was slow to type and others said the same thing!

Finally others agree with me, I always get shot down when I say this, and I really wish I had found this info before all the money wasted on CFL's. I have so far given away 8 bulbs and 3 fixtures and the clones to go with them to friends to start out (they work kick-ass for free!)

Right on OregonMeds Nocturnal dude and smash dude! Good advice!

 

[koolaidflavormix]

Here's the light I'm planning on using.

http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=120&xSec=3&jssCart=6b2e9101e7e273f85acfe73892a7e977

I wasn't really aware of all the heat issues with CFL but I'm def gonna have to reconsider my ventilation situation. What do you think the easiest way to regulate heat and deal with odor issues for the least amount of $$$ is? The only significant thing I was planning to spend on was the light so no price is too low and I still need to keep this on the down low.

How much danger of shocking the plants am I in if I leave the door open and risk light pollution?

 

[Hayduke]

That CFL rig is WAY too much

try this or since you have more to spend a 400W
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=53025

The door open thing is only for lights on, so no worries about light "pollution"

Just no light leaks when lights are off.

 

[OregonMeds]

Yea but he'd need real ventilation to use a 400hps too... Though it would throw well over twice the light for less money. If those $20 or the $25 econolight 150w hps's come back you could get one of them and be much better off, not counting the $170 savings.

Can you cut a hole in the ceiling of the closet or take out the built in light to vent into the attic? IF you can there are cheap fans that move a lot of air relatively quietly.

you can't flower at all with light getting in there when it's not supposed to. It just won't work.

 

[OregonMeds]

You could even get a 320w pulse start halide that equals a 400 hps and flowers and veges as well as or better than anything else for $90...
Those kick ass efficiency and light spectrum wise and work for both veg and flower like cfl's would.

Really don't get that crappy thing you were looking at.

 

[koolaidflavormix]

I definitely cant be doing any construction since the place I'm setting this up in is rented, which is the main reason ventilation is such a problem. At this point I'm thinking of leaving the door open and fixing come kind of movable piece of plywood or something in its place where I can cut holes and install an in fan and an out fan with a carbon scrubber. It seems like the only way I'm going to get decent airflow (any easier solutions guys?). In addition to using the carbon scrubber do y'all recommend using some kind of air cleaner for the rest of the room as well?

Also, if I did decide to go with HPS instead of the CFL ballast is that gonna require me to put in a ventilated hood or some other hassle as well?

Keep in mind this is my first REAL indoor grow, I'm not expecting huge results I'm just trying to set up something that is simple and cheap as long as it works.