GoodyBaggins
Active Member
basically, if you know how to do LST or Training. would I get a bigger yield? I'm thinking of doing 1 LST and taking pictures of it vrs the others.
Whats the pros and cons of LST or training?
- Thread starter GoodyBaggins
- Start date
matth82003
New Member
I've had to do it once while growinjg indoors. My plant top stretched too far, and was too close to the light. I drilled a hole in the pot, and tied shoelace around the main stem. Then i bent it down almost at a 45 degree angle. Doing this also allowed the buds to ripen relatively evenly.
If your going to give it a try, make sure you bend the stems gradually, and use something that won't cut or damage the stems when you tie it.
If you bend too much, too soon, it will snap. Also if you used a metal wire, it will obviously cut through the stem.
Tying the main stem lower than the branches will force the auxins to the highest point of growth on the plant. Then they will grow as tops, instead of lower branches. IMO, this is a superior method to topping. It is also good for a mother plant, to allow more places to take clones from.
Give it a shot, let us know how it goes, and post some pics.
Good luck!
If your going to give it a try, make sure you bend the stems gradually, and use something that won't cut or damage the stems when you tie it.
If you bend too much, too soon, it will snap. Also if you used a metal wire, it will obviously cut through the stem.
Tying the main stem lower than the branches will force the auxins to the highest point of growth on the plant. Then they will grow as tops, instead of lower branches. IMO, this is a superior method to topping. It is also good for a mother plant, to allow more places to take clones from.
Give it a shot, let us know how it goes, and post some pics.
Good luck!
jordisgarden
Well-Known Member
i topped and chopped these and im never going back to the old way....to me there is no comparison. more colas, and less height..no question im chopping and tieing forever
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Steadmanclan
Well-Known Member
to answer your question... it is definitely a good idea. tie branches over and down, trim away leaves to allow more light to penetrate and create more growing tips. you can effectively double or even triple the yield your plants would have otherwise given you. just make sure you stop trimming away leaves once you start flowering.
check out the canopy management thread by subcool.
check out the canopy management thread by subcool.
jordisgarden
Well-Known Member
whats the deal with trimming away leafs. i just let mine be. and yeah the bottom ones take a beating but theres no comparison from when my first grow when i didnt chop or top and i was using floros. to this grow , i am chopping and topping and tying down, and giving nutes, and i bought good soil, and i bought 700 watts hps. a 400 and 3 100s. wow what a difference...i am completely blown away with the results. but im still scared to cut any leafs off. if i took off the bottom 4 leafs would it affect it in a bad bad way?
Steadmanclan
Well-Known Member
trimming leaves away during early veg will not bother your plant in any way. cutting off the leaves in the in side of the canopy will allow more light to penetrate and create more growing heads out of the middle if the plant which can also be stretched out later on to bush her out even more. cutting away lower leaves that aren't really getting good light will allow you plant more energy to focus on building the tops and branching out.
Greenisgold
Well-Known Member
The only downside is that it takes some time to achieve an even canopy. When trained, plants will need more nutes, but who cares on that one. Tuck leaves, do not cut them unless they are yellow and dieing off.
lehua96734
Well-Known Member
ricky nice grow. i am a newbie on my 2nd grow and trying the LST method also. thanks steadmanclan for some helpful advice. gonna take all the help i can get. thanks
woolypudding69
Active Member
Nice man, I just started lsting my plant, i look forward to a good yield!
Green Cross
Well-Known Member
It depends on your lights.
If you're using 1000w there's no need to LST, unless you have height restrictions
If you're using 250 or 400w there's every reason to LST, because a 4' plant will outgrow your lights penetration capabilities
If you're using 1000w there's no need to LST, unless you have height restrictions
If you're using 250 or 400w there's every reason to LST, because a 4' plant will outgrow your lights penetration capabilities
Green Cross
Well-Known Member
If you trim fan leaves in early veg you're reducing the amount of energy the plant can absorb, and you're limiting the plants natural respiration.
You're better off training the plant if branching is the desired effect
cbtwohundread
Well-Known Member
i havent encountered any cons in lst,.,or toping,.,i actualy combine both methods to get the best turnout,.,u get more ishen sites,more side sho0ts with less ro0m taken from each plant.,.,u can basicaly harvest more collie whe using these methods wisely
Hobbes
Well-Known Member
.
Pros: Short plants, larger yield, better average potency, quicker finish, smaller colas less chance of mold, easy and fun.
Con: No single gallon size cola.
.
.
Crop Circle Of Bud (CCOB)
I don't train like a normal scrog, bending the plant through veg. I top when there is enough height above the third node to make a good clone ~ 2" of stem + 2 nodes on top. After the top I wait until the two stems are 22" each then transplant from a 6" pot to a 5 gallon bucket - at an angle so the stems are easier to bend. I had been putting the plant directly into flower after training because my veg room was in a secret room with a 4' ceiling at the end of a crawl space, nasty to be hauling 5 gallon buckets around that. I framed up a wall in my flower room (32' x 20') and used hay bailing plastic for the wall - very thick tough black plastic. Now I've got a real veg room and I'm vegging the plants for a week after transplanting to 5 gallon pots and training. I'm thinking it will dramatically increase yield and shorten flowering time.
I'm running a test with these two Pandora's Boxes, they're at 16" and 19". The pic is a few weeks old, I've got the taller PB's stem almost trained and the shorter is almost 20".
The topped plant will have stems that are bowed like a cowboys legs, cross the stems so they follow their natural curves when you bend them - right side stem circles the bucket rim counter clockwise, left clockwise.
This Bubblegum's stems weren't crossed and took over a week to train. If crossed I could have done it in a few hours.
This is a 1 stem Kali Mist at 35" and a 2 stem Flo (18" & 19"). The stem is much thicker and more difficult to bend and train. We need to get the stem around the 38" of the bucket rim to get as many branches as possible, so two thinner, shorter stems are much easier. The stems virtually stop growth and stretch when bent horizontal, many more branches than a vertical plant of the same stem length. The Flo trained in about 15 minutes and the Kali Mist took days.
Flo - Kali Mist
.
Flo
.
Kali Mist
The above Kali Mist at harvest
.
You need holes drilled in your bucket just below the rim, to anchor your stem tie downs. I drill a hole every 1", 38 around the bucket. Use 1' of twist tie and make a loose loop around a stiff part of the stem, probably 3"-6" from the end. Gently bend the stem in a semi circle - experience will tell you how far you can go each day, you are going to snap a few stems and will have to repair them. I use silicon tubing to protect the stem and duct tape around the tubing. When I started I snapped stems in two that were only held together with the skin and the stems healed. Tough plant. You'll find it easiest to use 3 or 4 training twist ties along the length of each stem, taking the slack off each after one is tightened.
This is a technique you should use out of desperation (my plants were too tall for my secret 4' room when I started growing) or on plants you can afford to throw away. If you don't have any extra clones around use your male plants for experimenting and learning, just put them back in veg so they don't mess up your females in flower. Great use for something you were going to chop and toss out, now you just toss them when you're done training and you know how far you can push your females.
It'll take a few days to train a mature plant, a skinny stemmed plant from a 20 oz cup can be trainned in about 15 minutes but the yield will be low. If you force the plant, or tighten more than once a day, you will crease or snap stems - tighten the twist ties once per day only even though they will feel loose hours after tightening. This is a procedure where you really need patience. Immediately after trainning your plants they'll look like these Jack The Ripper, Pandora's Box and Chemdog, it's normal.
After the stem is trained and held in place with twist ties you have to train the branches on long branched strains. On short branched strains you have an easier time, they almost train themselves, just need a little help. I start at the base of each stem and match branches from each node, connecting them in the middle by a short piece of twist tie. The idea now is to bring eveything towards the middle and to get the branches in order. After the branches of each node are connected with twist ties start from the bottom of the stems and line up each set of branches like a deck of cards that are fanned out - the branches will pull up towards the light. Give them a week or so for the branches to settle in that position and take the twist ties off. The branches have to be twisted slightly and arranged so the branch stems aren't crossed. In the end you should have the two sides of the nodes making a V with the branches that follows the stems like circular track. After a couple of weeks and some training you're plants will look like this Jilly Bean.
Super Strawberry Diesel indica phenos
Super Strawberry Diesel sativa pheno
This is a Super Strawberry Diesel after trimming the leaves during hang dry. The tomato care ring I tied it to is 18" in diameter, it yielded just over 2 liters (9 cups) of 4 week cured bud.
Pics of my garden: SSD, KM, BG, BL, T, Flo, RD
.
.
Pros: Short plants, larger yield, better average potency, quicker finish, smaller colas less chance of mold, easy and fun.
Con: No single gallon size cola.
.
.
Crop Circle Of Bud (CCOB)
I don't train like a normal scrog, bending the plant through veg. I top when there is enough height above the third node to make a good clone ~ 2" of stem + 2 nodes on top. After the top I wait until the two stems are 22" each then transplant from a 6" pot to a 5 gallon bucket - at an angle so the stems are easier to bend. I had been putting the plant directly into flower after training because my veg room was in a secret room with a 4' ceiling at the end of a crawl space, nasty to be hauling 5 gallon buckets around that. I framed up a wall in my flower room (32' x 20') and used hay bailing plastic for the wall - very thick tough black plastic. Now I've got a real veg room and I'm vegging the plants for a week after transplanting to 5 gallon pots and training. I'm thinking it will dramatically increase yield and shorten flowering time.
I'm running a test with these two Pandora's Boxes, they're at 16" and 19". The pic is a few weeks old, I've got the taller PB's stem almost trained and the shorter is almost 20".
The topped plant will have stems that are bowed like a cowboys legs, cross the stems so they follow their natural curves when you bend them - right side stem circles the bucket rim counter clockwise, left clockwise.
This Bubblegum's stems weren't crossed and took over a week to train. If crossed I could have done it in a few hours.
This is a 1 stem Kali Mist at 35" and a 2 stem Flo (18" & 19"). The stem is much thicker and more difficult to bend and train. We need to get the stem around the 38" of the bucket rim to get as many branches as possible, so two thinner, shorter stems are much easier. The stems virtually stop growth and stretch when bent horizontal, many more branches than a vertical plant of the same stem length. The Flo trained in about 15 minutes and the Kali Mist took days.
Flo - Kali Mist
.
Flo
.
Kali Mist
The above Kali Mist at harvest
.
You need holes drilled in your bucket just below the rim, to anchor your stem tie downs. I drill a hole every 1", 38 around the bucket. Use 1' of twist tie and make a loose loop around a stiff part of the stem, probably 3"-6" from the end. Gently bend the stem in a semi circle - experience will tell you how far you can go each day, you are going to snap a few stems and will have to repair them. I use silicon tubing to protect the stem and duct tape around the tubing. When I started I snapped stems in two that were only held together with the skin and the stems healed. Tough plant. You'll find it easiest to use 3 or 4 training twist ties along the length of each stem, taking the slack off each after one is tightened.
This is a technique you should use out of desperation (my plants were too tall for my secret 4' room when I started growing) or on plants you can afford to throw away. If you don't have any extra clones around use your male plants for experimenting and learning, just put them back in veg so they don't mess up your females in flower. Great use for something you were going to chop and toss out, now you just toss them when you're done training and you know how far you can push your females.
It'll take a few days to train a mature plant, a skinny stemmed plant from a 20 oz cup can be trainned in about 15 minutes but the yield will be low. If you force the plant, or tighten more than once a day, you will crease or snap stems - tighten the twist ties once per day only even though they will feel loose hours after tightening. This is a procedure where you really need patience. Immediately after trainning your plants they'll look like these Jack The Ripper, Pandora's Box and Chemdog, it's normal.
After the stem is trained and held in place with twist ties you have to train the branches on long branched strains. On short branched strains you have an easier time, they almost train themselves, just need a little help. I start at the base of each stem and match branches from each node, connecting them in the middle by a short piece of twist tie. The idea now is to bring eveything towards the middle and to get the branches in order. After the branches of each node are connected with twist ties start from the bottom of the stems and line up each set of branches like a deck of cards that are fanned out - the branches will pull up towards the light. Give them a week or so for the branches to settle in that position and take the twist ties off. The branches have to be twisted slightly and arranged so the branch stems aren't crossed. In the end you should have the two sides of the nodes making a V with the branches that follows the stems like circular track. After a couple of weeks and some training you're plants will look like this Jilly Bean.
Super Strawberry Diesel indica phenos
Super Strawberry Diesel sativa pheno
This is a Super Strawberry Diesel after trimming the leaves during hang dry. The tomato care ring I tied it to is 18" in diameter, it yielded just over 2 liters (9 cups) of 4 week cured bud.
Pics of my garden: SSD, KM, BG, BL, T, Flo, RD
.
.
SAYCHEESE!
Member
My first grow 4 strains LST
The Church 2 days of LST
Big bang,Dutch Cheese just Bent
The Church 2 days of LST
Big bang,Dutch Cheese just Bent
Total Head
Well-Known Member
to me the only con of lst is that you need to keep on top of it to do it right. the second you have branches rising above the canopy those bitches need to be tied down or you ruin the effect. i have had plants that had to be tied more than once in a single day, and others that just ran out of room to tie branches. i end up doing a combo of lst and supercropping. if i can't tie a branch down, i pinch that fucker till it tips on its own. and to the above post, i start training mine at about 2.5 weeks from seed. if you wait till flower most of the branches will harden off before you can achieve what you want. as long as a branch can handle a tiny bit of roughness it can be tied.