here we go again~old weed vs Super weed

Syriuslydelyrius

Well-Known Member
I cant wait for marijuana prohibition to end so then we can have the Mythbusters do a special on marijuana-myths!! :clap:

I have a lot of comments to make on a multitude of things here however, lets start by taking the debate over "the more thc the better the weed" totally out of context by talking about of all things a banana split icecream.

Lets say we are all banana split adicts and conasoirs of the perfect banana split. Is the best banana split the one with the biggest amount of one topping or is it the perfect combination of all ingredients that makes the best banana split? So if I were to then go discribe all the differantly made banana splits I have eaten by only giving the % of peanuts this doesnt really tell you much about the total quality or expierence, or taste of the banana split then does it? Useing only the percentile quanity of just one indigrient in a substance that has many indigrients as judge to its quality is a common a misconception for some of us potheads for some reason.

Does everyone that drinks alcohol think that the higher the proof the better the drink? No of course not they pick there favorite booze for many differant reasons like, taste, cost, and other factors up to and including potency but not nessesarly useing potency as the major deciding factor.

It all pretty much comes down to YOUR personal preference and taking a toke or a good honest opinion or discription of the taste, length of buzz, type of buzz, etc from someone who has taken a toke provides you far more valid information to formulate an opinion with than just the THC content as a % calculated without any kind of national standardization or even an explination of what this percentage reading of.

Thanks. I started to watch the link but was at work and the computer was sans speakers.
I just did watch this and he got some of the science wrong. He said that "the THC represents such a small percentage of the contents of the resin head, that mostly filled with the sticky goo that comes from the terpenes."
Wrong. He needs to go back and listen to himself. The terpenes are within the plastids. The sticky goo he referred to is the very cannibinoids that his science quote accurately said this ooze continues to be forced into the resin head and globs emerge as vessicles are covered with bits of this mat..."
These glandular trichomes swell with this THC laden material. His last few photomicrographs where too high of magnification. It was like looking at the skin of a balloon but not looking at the volume of air within the balloon. Here's picture showing everything under the subcuticular layer he was for some reason showing us.


The gray secretory cavity is filled with cannibinoids and THC! That's what's making them swell up. When he kept saying THC was such a small percentage of the trichome, I knew he was confused. It looks like MM was too high to understand the science in his own presentation :bigjoint:
Once he understands what a huge percentage, at least by volume of the capitate head of the stalked trichome, is made up of THC and the other cannabinoids, it will be easier for him to understand why percentage of THC goes up with concentration techniques like hash and budder. :smile:
Mindphuk, Just what and how its being mesured is the golden question. From reading what I quoted you on I am thinking that I have interpreted what Marijauna Man said in those videos differantly than you did. He stated that he wondered what this was a % of just like you asked above. He then went on to say that "it cant be a % of THC to plant material because just the resin heads alone are only 1 to 3% of the plant material. He continued explain "it could be % of THC compaired to other cannabinoides it would make more sence but...." and "If this is not A weight raito test then why does this percentage go up with hash/butter". So if we even asume that a trichome is 100% THC which it isnt these trichomes are only still only 1 to 3% of the plant material so how can we have plants testing at 20-30% which sort of leads you to belive that it cant be a weight ratio test and if its not a weight ratio test then purified samples wouldnt test higher if were a THC/other cannabinoide percentage unless your purification process is also removeing those other cannabinoides.

I have also heard of growers "calculating" there own THC percentages by eyeballing the amount of trichome coverage. Reguardless of what the process is and what % it is of Its still all pretty much an illrelivient number that does not give you a fraction of the information about the quality as taking a big bong hit would or even talking to someone about there "big bong hit".


I honestly could careless what some dude in a lab tells me about how strong my weed is reguardless of how accurate the scientific tests were. Now if he tested it with his own lungs I would be glad to listen ROFL....
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Great thread. Love the breakdown on the trichome -- +rep for Mindphuk. I think the %THC thing is pure marketing and blather. If someone had an accepted, clear-cut method for how it's done, it'd be in full-blown circulation you can be sure.

I had the privelege and frustration of coming up when the Colombian/Mexican sativas were all you could get most of the time, with a really rare Thai coming thru. There was some fantastic weed those days and it was just like a lot of today's beautiful indica-doms and hybrids -- there was a lot of variation depending on how well it was grown, how well timed the harvest was, and how it was handled. The custom of that day, and still is somewhere I guess, was to bale up weed just like hay for transport. While packed in those bales, a lot of time mold would get in or salt water or all kinds of things to make for shitty weed... could've been awesome if you got to it earlier, or had cured it another week. Today's stuff doesn't seem to get that commercial treatment anymore so, purely evaluating it as "smoke", today's dope is way more consistently pleasant, esp the indica-doms. But, I do occasionally run into indica-dom stuff that was picked early -- looks and smokes beautiful, but lacks any real punch.

The advent of Hawaiian and Cali sinse was the biggest thing on earth, back then. Before that, 50% weight by seed was standard and accepted.

I just got some nice pure Thai recently and that brought back all those old memories. Love it to death. I love today's new strains, too.. It really boils down to what mood I'm in; that's why I strive to make sure I have several things to choose from at any time. The greatest time in history to be a head is RIGHT NOW, I think.
 

grassified

Well-Known Member
Then you haven't tried Bezerk...it's a new creation from my uncle that is a 4 way cross of WW, Afghani, AK-47, and Blueberry Half a joint between 2 people is MORE then enough to blast you to Mars.

well all ive got to say is that your uncle is a no-good-dirty-ballsack-lickin-liar.

thats BULLSHIT MAN, A BIG SMELLY PILE OF FRESH, RELATIVELY WARM DANK SHIT FROM A BULLS INTESTINES.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
I cant wait for marijuana prohibition to end so then we can have the Mythbusters do a special on marijuana-myths!! :clap:

I have a lot of comments to make on a multitude of things here however, lets start by taking the debate over "the more thc the better the weed" totally out of context by talking about of all things a banana split icecream.

Lets say we are all banana split adicts and conasoirs of the perfect banana split. Is the best banana split the one with the biggest amount of one topping or is it the perfect combination of all ingredients that makes the best banana split? So if I were to then go discribe all the differantly made banana splits I have eaten by only giving the % of peanuts this doesnt really tell you much about the total quality or expierence, or taste of the banana split then does it? Useing only the percentile quanity of just one indigrient in a substance that has many indigrients as judge to its quality is a common a misconception for some of us potheads for some reason.

Does everyone that drinks alcohol think that the higher the proof the better the drink? No of course not they pick there favorite booze for many differant reasons like, taste, cost, and other factors up to and including potency but not nessesarly useing potency as the major deciding factor.

It all pretty much comes down to YOUR personal preference and taking a toke or a good honest opinion or discription of the taste, length of buzz, type of buzz, etc from someone who has taken a toke provides you far more valid information to formulate an opinion with than just the THC content as a % calculated without any kind of national standardization or even an explination of what this percentage reading of.
So very true. I made a comment in the home testing kit thread about getting more complete cannabinoid profiles, rather than just THC levels will probably give us a more accurate idea of what the drug will be like (once we see how various cannibinoids affect the buzz)
Using a vaporizer, almost all of the vapor is cannibinoids and not much else. So the only difference between high THC weed and low THC weed when vaped is how much you have to use and of course the ratios of the various products, which, as you point out, is probably much more important than THC%.

BTW, Ed Rosenthal believes that the non-cannabinoid terpenes also may play a role in modifying the effects of THC. I don't know if he has anything to back up this assumption.
I like your comment about doing a Mythbusters special on it. There is so much we still don't know that most of these claims are still the status of myths.

Mindphuk, Just what and how its being mesured is the golden question. From reading what I quoted you on I am thinking that I have interpreted what Marijauna Man said in those videos differantly than you did. He stated that he wondered what this was a % of just like you asked above. He then went on to say that "it cant be a % of THC to plant material because just the resin heads alone are only 1 to 3% of the plant material. He continued explain "it could be % of THC compaired to other cannabinoides it would make more sence but...." and "If this is not A weight raito test then why does this percentage go up with hash/butter". So if we even asume that a trichome is 100% THC which it isnt these trichomes are only still only 1 to 3% of the plant material so how can we have plants testing at 20-30% which sort of leads you to belive that it cant be a weight ratio test and if its not a weight ratio test then purified samples wouldnt test higher if were a THC/other cannabinoide percentage unless your purification process is also removeing those other cannabinoides.

I have also heard of growers "calculating" there own THC percentages by eyeballing the amount of trichome coverage. Reguardless of what the process is and what % it is of Its still all pretty much an illrelivient number that does not give you a fraction of the information about the quality as taking a big bong hit would or even talking to someone about there "big bong hit".


I honestly could careless what some dude in a lab tells me about how strong my weed is reguardless of how accurate the scientific tests were. Now if he tested it with his own lungs I would be glad to listen ROFL....
1-3% of plant material? No way, it is much heavier than that. This resinous material is like an oil, denser than the dried plant material, and remember what born2killspam said, that before testing, they dry the material even further. Like us, a significant, if not most of the plant weight is water. Even after we dry and cure, there is still water in the buds. If I make hash, I can recover probably 10-15% by weight of material, that is mostly the trichomes, and with certain mesh sizes, even the stalks are removed, leaving just the heads which are mostly resin. If I can get 10-15% from bud that has, IDK, 20% water, then the true dry weight percent of the trichs is 12-18%, and I'm only guessing at the moisture content I start with.
Maybe an experiment is in order. We can do what born2killspam says they do prior to testing and dry a bud at 40°C (104°F) for 24 hours and weigh the bud again to calcluate moisture content.

I do agree that percent THC as a guide is overrated but it is important to some people and it does give us at least a crude way to compare potency which is important to people spending good money on a product they would like it to have the desired effect for the weight they got.

Did you see what I was saying about Marijuana Man's confusion about what the trich heads are made up of? He made it sound like the THC in the heads themselves was a low percent, then add on the plant material and it's even less. He showed that last photomicrograph and came to the incorrect conclusion about what it was showing.
 

Syriuslydelyrius

Well-Known Member
I am just so tired and my mind is lets just say "Rather Twisted" right now. I will reread this all tomorrow when I have more cognitive skills. I do want to make one comment

1-3% of plant material? No way, it is much heavier than that. This resinous material is like an oil, denser than the dried plant material.
This and the fact i am beyond stoned just got my mind reviewing what M.M said in this video or one of his others about hash. OK so hey lets make some hash with just best buds and the purest possible extraction method getting it as close to 100% thc as possible what is the best ratio yielded hash as a percentage of plant material used?

He quoted 2 differant hash makers and one said 3 to 10% and closer to 3% The other guy claimed 9%.
 

fat sam

Well-Known Member
i think this whole argument is bull shit on the side of cops, they use this super weed to try and scare people, they whole point is that pot is not dangerous even if the claims are true, i mean shit isnt hash 70-80 % thc and people are not dropping dead from that, its just a bullshit scare tactic that has no meaning in the real would
 

Syriuslydelyrius

Well-Known Member
Well its all speculation at best as to exactly what procedure to mesure THC content is used and how valid of a mesurement it is.


So very true. I made a comment in the home testing kit thread about getting more complete cannabinoid profiles, rather than just THC levels will probably give us a more accurate idea
Yes ecactly its not the amount of content for one "ingredient" its the final "recipe" that counts.


Mindpunks picture above shows a capitate-stalked trichome and these contain the overwhelming majority of the psychoactive cannabinoids (THC, THCV, CBN). Different cannabinoids affect the high in a multifaceted manner.

THC:
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol & delta-8-tetrahydrocannabinol - THC mimics the action of anandamide, a neurotransmitter produced naturally in the body, which binds with the cannabinoid receptors in the brain to produce the ?high? associated with marijuana. THC possesses high UV-B (280-315 nm) absorption properties.

THCV:
tetrahydrocannabivarin - prevalent in certain South African and Southeast Asian strains of cannabis. It is said to produce a ?clearer high? & seems to possess many of the therapeutic properties of THC.

CBD:
cannabidiol - previously believed to be psychoactive, or to contribute to the high by interacting with other cannabinoids, conversely the most recent research indicates that CBD has negligible effect on the high, it is however a strong anti-inflammatory, and may take the edge off some THC effects, such as anxiety. CBD as a non-psychoactive cannabinoid appears to be helpful for many medical conditions. CBD biosynthesizes into cannabinol (CBN) & tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

CBN:
cannabinol - a degradation product of THC, produces a depressant effect, ?fuzzy? forehead.

CBC:
cannabichromene - non-psychoactive , a precursor to THC.

CBG:
cannabigerol - non-psychoactive, hemp strains often posses elevated levels of CBG while possessing only trace amounts of THC. (Side note: CBG is actually an anti-psycotic)

Heavy trichome production is not necessarily an indication of a potent plant. Some hemp strains have moderate layers of trichomes yet pack only a strong headache. In a drug strain, a thick layer of trichomes is a symbol that it may well posses an elevated potency level, but it is certainly not a guarantee.



As for the agrument of if this is a percentage of thc over mass. The real question would be if you could filter everything but THC out of your hash and you process the same amount of one strain that is said to be 10% followed by the same amount of strain thats said to be 25% will you get 15% more hash?
 
C

chitownsmoking

Guest
i think threw generation and generations of carefull breeding weed has gotten better
 
Top