BIODYNAMICS: what's the big deal?

[s.c.mtn.hillbilly]

anyone reading my posts will notice how much I carry on about BD....here's WHY: even though(in spite of) official science considers it complete 'snake-oil', BD really works! it's not gonna' grow things super fast, but the quality cannot be beat...WHY?- because biodynamics is the culmination of agricultural knowledge from OLD europe...I mean really old! before 'organic'chemistry and man's arrogance took us out of symbiosis. it isn't necessary to get into the more spiritual aspects of BD in order to get fantastic results..as Ive said before:even improperly applied BD beats regular organics. the people at josephine porter institute put all the love into their products(very time consuming and effort intensive). mother nature adds the secret ingredient: mojo baby..yeahhh!...anyway, the inocculants go to work to bring everything into balace, which the more acreage is brought into, creates a 'vibe' that is NO JOKE- real deal...the only way to describe, would be 'the shire' from lord of the rings...if you know the difference between the vibe in petro-chemical farmland, and the warm organic cushiness(kushiness!)of the place that pepperridge farm remembers, you know what I'm talkin' about...if this all sound like some flaked out b.s. that's fine...some people are just not in touch, just because someone is blind, does not disprove the existence of light! I'm not here to change people's minds if they're set in concrete...what I am saying is: the products produced by JPI are worth more in real value than gold, yet are sooo cheap, it's a crime! and you have nothing to lose! it requires ZERO belief in anything other than quality! "listen to me now, and tank me lateah!"

 

[Titan4jah]

so do you just add the compost to your soil? or whats up..seems really spirtule

 

[pitchforksandtorches]

i've spent a few years in the Bio-Dynamic world, and whilst my role is not gardening, i take part in alot of that and talk in detail with BD farmers, gardeners etc.. besides this i work (as an open-minded and kinda prospected outsider) within "Anthroposophy", the spiritual movement that underpins/created BD.

Whilst BD was developed as a movement in the 1920's iirc by the self-proclaimed seer Rudolph Steiner and some others (i CBA to look it up on wiki..), a lot of it's practices are simply good old fashioned traditional common sense, driven by care and not greed etc. It does contain some quite unconventional practices that are basicly a form of magic, but a focus on composting (albeit with semi-mystical preparations), soil care, and gaining an understanding the rhythms of the farm, the farmer and of nature are the key i guess.

The produce tho (and i never tried BD MJ btw..) is second to none taste wise, is supposedly infused with cosmic life forces (according to Mr Steiner), and is about as good/pure/green/whatever food can get. BD farms will often let you grow there yourself!

BD farms have a quite different nature to most other farms too, a focus on natural and (perceived) artistic harmony and their often communal and healing purposes for example.

kinda lost track there lol, but it's a start for you... much wierdness is contained within, especially when you into anthroposophy and Steiner himself - i find it fascinating as i'm fairly deep inside the Anthroposophical community and much of it is wonderful, but some of it is questionable, some of it daft, and some of it is just the result of 19th century religious romantics gone mad imo, but that's another story

bottom line tho, you get tastier food, a harmonious, resource-waste balanced farm, a more beautiful environment, and a happier farm and farmer... with no damage to the earth - in fact it is easily argued that BD enriches the earth.

oh yeah, and one last thing - the Shire analogy is spot on

 

[s.c.mtn.hillbilly]

thanks for clarifying that!...people think I'm weird enough without trying to even begin to explain the deeper(and yes sometimes quite kooky!) aspects...all I know, is you get THE best tasting produce, and the most gushing, mojo glowing, ass kicking weed I've seen! my whole philosophy is basically 'sukiyaki weed'...like the kobe bulls in japan(the best beef in the world)- absolutely spoiled, pampered, living the champagne dream/caviar lifestyle...what I mean is- take the best organic ingredients, throw 'em in the compost pile, innocculate with the b.d.preps, let nature 'cook' the pile and infuse it with whatever earth mojo you chose to call it this week, and serve....the better the ingredients, the better the plant -period. I've knocked people out with weed from seeds out of their 'organic' master kush(south);the difference was the b.d.compost...."mojo baby!yeaahhh!"

 

[s.c.mtn.hillbilly]

people have thousands of different ways of explaining nature and our connection to the rest of nature-(the basis for many weirdass religions)...there really is an energetic connection between living things on the individual as well as group levels...the 'flavors' of the resulting vibration(i.e. community, anger, hatred, love)...apparently our subconscious mind is highly keyed to this spetrum. how well your subconscious communicates this info is dependent on how well your conscious mind LISTENS...easier said than done for most! those who are more sensitive(empathic)have a much better connection between the conscious/subconscious...this was actually common knowledge to the kahunas of hawaii for centuries(or longer!). some people can be TOO sensitive, and appear quite flaky,bleeding hearted, probably have personal friendships with angels and garden faeries, and far too thin skinned for this world! I'm sure you know someone who fits this description...yet they're the first to detect the coming tornado/earhquake/(insert disaster here), even before the dog!..it's just that-instead of saying"oh! I subconsciously felt tremmors or whatever.".they say (and believe) 'the great god hubajuba' told them!

 

[pitchforksandtorches]

To BD and anthroposophy this connection of all life is fundamental, and the farm is treated as an entity or being in it's own right, consisting of all that is within.. land, plants (wild, scattered and cultivated), stock, workers, soil, air, wildlife and so on.

The task of the farmer is to engage with this as a whole, understanding and aligning oneself with the natural patterns and rhythms therein.. for me it has a quite Toaist element in that at first "it" (the "life" forches, rhythms whatever) is invisible, but once you spend time within it, it becomes ever more evident.

The BD farm i work at is very young at about 5 active years.. the soil still needs a lot of work (done the old fashioned way by letting different stock "soil" it), the orchard won't produce for another couple of years, and we are gradually breeding enough of our own stock, but already it is a place of gentle natural beauty - it would be news to most folk that BD gardeners recieve artistic/sculptural instruction besides the farming gumph, but if you visit a garden you will see this at work

Seeing as i'm gushing about this i may as well make a final point lol, and that is "observation", a key practice and skill from the Anthrop/BD world. Just watching whatever you are involved in, practicing observation and reflecting on those observations and drawing conclusions and forming questions. The process sounds simple, but it's hard to do well, and very effective if done properly. Again, the more you engage in this, the more you get out of it untill at times it is almost innate, and when one is "in the zone" it's like divine inspiration. you just know

heh

/sermonover

 

[s.c.mtn.hillbilly]

yeah...taoism is EXACTLY it! and as we'd discussed before; the shire from lord of the rings is a great example that absolutely symbiotic relationship, and mojo glow...it just keeps getting deeper and deeper once you can discern the 'water' you've spent your whole life in...then you can swim instead of being swept with the current like floatsam!...and the more in tune you become with the land, the more conventional scientific 'knowledge'(lack of)- is shown to be a deficient description to say the least! it gets deep quick! and it takes a while to seperate the wheat from the chaff(applies to people as well as knowledge!). the REAL reality(absolute objective reality) is far more mystifying than some gods,faeries,spirits,dead alien rockstars in conspicuous black spaceships, you get the idea(I hope).

 

[Rix]

So much to learn from the anceints.
By the way Australian beef knocks that Jap shoe leather to the wayside.

 

[zombie1334]

the REAL reality(absolute objective reality) is far more mystifying than some gods,faeries,spirits,dead alien rockstars in conspicuous black spaceships, you get the idea(I hope).

But whose to say what is "absolute objective reality"? Does this exist? Everyones reality tunnels are programmed differently, no two peoples reality tunnels are the same, therefore their reality isn't the same. Atleast according to Robert Anton Wilson and Timothy Leary... and even they weren't sure about that!

In the words of Hassan I Sabbah "Nothing is real. Everything is permitted."

 

[laserbrn]

But whose to say what is "absolute objective reality"? Does this exist? Everyones reality tunnels are programmed differently, no two peoples reality tunnels are the same, therefore their reality isn't the same. Atleast according to Robert Anton Wilson and Timothy Leary... and even they weren't sure about that!

In the words of Hassan I Sabbah "Nothing is real. Everything is permitted."

I would like to say first that I did not read this whole thread...I'm not ashamed, but from the one post I read it appears we are discussing philosophy and the fact that people will fill in any void of knowledge with riculous delusions (or religion, depends on how many other people have the same delusions).

But to quote Timothy Leary? The great philospher??

 

[s.c.mtn.hillbilly]

But whose to say what is "absolute objective reality"? Does this exist? Everyones reality tunnels are programmed differently, no two peoples reality tunnels are the same, therefore their reality isn't the same. Atleast according to Robert Anton Wilson and Timothy Leary... and even they weren't sure about that!

In the words of Hassan I Sabbah "Nothing is real. Everything is permitted."

you are describing 'subjective reality'- personal translations which are inherently flawed....there is however, an 'objective reality' which is not subject to interpretation other than what it REALLY is...the tao that is spoken is not the true tao.

 

[dieKennydie!]

I would like to say first that I did not read this whole thread...I'm not ashamed, but from the one post I read it appears we are discussing philosophy and the fact that people will fill in any void of knowledge with riculous delusions (or religion, depends on how many other people have the same delusions).

But to quote Timothy Leary? The great philospher??

ok i dont mind the whole rediculous delusouns part but c'mon man u dont seriously have to piss all over religeon?? everyone may not believe it and to some it may seem silly but at least it unites humans and teaches us to care, be kind, and look after one another.

Now that that is said: u guys have convinced me ill throw on some BD to my mix

 

[zombie1334]

ok i dont mind the whole rediculous delusouns part but c'mon man u dont seriously have to piss all over religeon?? everyone may not believe it and to some it may seem silly but at least it unites humans and teaches us to care, be kind, and look after one another.

Religion, to me, is a way to control peoples thoughts and behaviors. It does not teach us to care, be kind, and look after one another. What you are speaking of is religious 'figures' or 'philosophers' within religion. Jesus taught his whole life to be kind to one another, give food to the hungry, and generally be a 'good' human. Religion has taken those great traits about this human (and others) and twisted it to say that if you don't follow us, you are going to HELL! "Our way is the only right way! All others are heretical!" This is NOT the same message that Jesus taught. In the bible there is no place where Jesus goes around condemning people to hell. This is something that the Religion created. No Gods, No Masters.

And to say that Religion unites humans is a gross mistake! If anything it is one of the main causes of separation of the masses (the other being Government). Think of all the wars that have been fought in the name of Religion and Government. EVERY SINGLE ONE! The Abolition of Religion AND State would make a truly free world. Anything else is just petty reform.

 

[pitchforksandtorches]

yeah, ok
it's really just about loving the earth and stuff, the rest is just gravy

 

[Rix]

I like your christ.
I don't like christians.
Why can't christians be more like christ?
Gandhi.

 

[zombie1334]

Like I said, I like the IDEA of Jesus. Not the Religion that follows him.

No Gods, No Masters. No war but the class war!

 

[VerdantGreen]

im more organic than boidynamic but the part of biodynasmic practice i believe in is planting by the moon phases - this has been proven to work and if the moon can control the tides then whu shouldnt it have an influence on the water cycles of a plant?

but the dung in a goats horn buried for a month stuff is a bit mumbo for me. - jmo

the main thing is to use a method that you truly believe in and that works for you

 

[s.c.mtn.hillbilly]

im more organic than boidynamic but the part of biodynasmic practice i believe in is planting by the moon phases - this has been proven to work and if the moon can control the tides then whu shouldnt it have an influence on the water cycles of a plant?

but the dung in a goats horn buried for a month stuff is a bit mumbo for me. - jmo

the main thing is to use a method that you truly believe in and that works for you

biodynamics IS organic!!!! to the 10th.power!...the cow shit in the horns is wierd, but the results speak for themselves....if I was dying of some disease that only a witch doctor could cure, I'm not gonna' question his methods!

 

[CommieChase]

biodynamics is VERY iffy stuff. But to each his own. If you think that burying a bull horn in the ground is going to give you a better crop, then go ahead and do it!

I just hope that isn't the ONLY reason the bull got his horn chopped off...

I also agree with the lunar cycle part. That pre-dates biodynamics though.

 

[pitchforksandtorches]

to be fair, most of the practices contained in BD pre-date BD itself considerably - it doesn't claim to be exclusive in regard to it's practices. in simple terms it's the start of organics, as a modern movement. with added weirdness at first glance..

the preps sound weird ofc, but for example: one of the cow-horn preps adds silica to the soil in an entirely organic way (some peeps pay good cash to get chems to do this..), as well as having superior micro-herdage.. all the preps have similar properties that undoubtably make a difference to a plant/garden etc in many ways(and many MJ growers do after all pay for additives that add just a few percent to yields etc). now, what most folk see as mysticism does have another layer..
the horns for example, which are surprisingly easy to find in the world of farming (had a chat with a BD farmer about this recently, a very intelligent guy whom i know well and trust).. as a cow ruminates, it's horns are heated by the friction in the skull and constant cycling of warm air, this produces a reaction to the sillica within the cavity of the horn, turning some of it gaseous, and meaning it wil be more readily available as a nutrient in compost later.. this is the short non-scary version, but i've heard many similar examples through my work.. now, many things are buried/planted/etc on given days, which can seem weird, but i think it's well established that planting by moon cycles does actually work, and yet people question the involvement of the moon, or other bodies, in other parts of gardening such as composting and use of preparations.... hmmm
a lot of BD is really quite logical when you look at your activity holistically and tune in a bit