Freedom, where are'th thou?

jrh72582 said:
You think you're losing freedoms in America? You're complaining about our situation? MOVE! Go to a country where there's NO freedom and see how you like it. Travel to Guatemala or El Salvador - 70% of the world lives in the conditions they do. I don't like losing freedoms, but there are a LOT of unsubstantiated statements in this thread...A LOT!

Be serious here people. Put the ganja down for a second and use your logic. Do some research. Then make a coherent argument rather than saying things like "9/11 was obviously an inside job". Don't complain about lack of education when your arguments reflect a lack of education themselves...

No offense, but come on man...
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(deep breathe) is that seriously you're argument?

the point is that we dont want to end up like those other countries. we have a constitution and we want to protect it.

"No offense, but come on man"
 
jfgordon1 said:
(deep breathe) is that seriously you're argument?

the point is that we dont want to end up like those other countries. we have a constitution and we want to protect it.

"No offense, but come on man"
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You're right - I submit to your superior intellect. 9/11 was clearly an inside job. In fact, I did it (with the help of the martians and Tom Cruise).

And yes, we are losing freedoms in America. Let me list the freedoms that I have lost since 9/11...

1. um...........it takes longer to board an airplane........nope, there's no freedom lost, merely inconvenience.

2. um..........I....um......can't think of any.

3. wait...I got one....oh wait, nevermind...

4. I give up.

I must be so ignorant that I cannot even think of any lost freedoms. And to think those years of education are all down the drain...

Oh well, maybe someday I will be as wise as you, my Yoda. Maybe... Just maybe...
 
jfgordon1 said:
http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

patriot act ^

http://www.kean.edu/~eslprog/accents/2006/page2006_13.html

^ there's a little article about it.

read up my friend. get out of the cave
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Like I said - don't rely on articles or Youtube to prove your point. Pretend this is a debate - you have no materials to rely upon as crutches for your conspiratorial drivel. What about the patriot act? Explain your point. In an argument paper, you cannot merely link to articles to prove your thesis - you must use your OWN WORDS!!!!

And I do read - WAY more than you! Take what you read and multiply it times 100 at the very least. In fact, my career revolves around reading. And I don't live in a cave. I live in a house. My office seems like a cave, but it's well lit.
 
jrh72582 said:
Like I said - don't rely on articles or Youtube to prove your point. Pretend this is a debate - you have no materials to rely upon as crutches for your conspiratorial drivel. What about the patriot act? Explain your point. In an argument paper, you cannot merely link to articles to prove your thesis - you must use your OWN WORDS!!!!

And I do read - WAY more than you! Take what you read and multiply it times 100 at the very least. In fact, my career revolves around reading. And I don't live in a cave. I live in a house. My office seems like a cave, but it's well lit.
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^ lol i bet

anyway... patriot act is probably the most famous for taking away freedoms right now. they can tap our phones, emails, etc. they can take suspected terrorist in with with no right to an attorney. the way the act describes a terrorist, anyone can be considered one. very vague. there's just a couple.

seat belt law is another one... hell... illegal to smoke weed in your own home is another right we've lost
 
the right to bear arms is another one. its getting more tough to get gun licenses. lets see... felons cant get guns/or vote....

EDIT: also..illegal for the gov. to collect income taxes...
 
jrh72582 said:
OH NO!!!! NOT WIKIPEDIA!!!! My mortal enemy. If a student of mine ever uses wikipedia as a source, I throw the paper away. I still get seniors in college who rely upon wikipedia for everything - they can't even complete research or use primary and original sources.

I'm still waiting on an argument and not a LINK...
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ok whatever....just look up extraordinary rendition plenty of other sources. I shouldnt have to explain it to you in the first place.
 
jrh72582 said:
And I know what rendition is - I was alluding to your incorrect spelling of the word. So you have lost freedoms because of rendition? Were you taken to Uzbekistan and beaten? Do you know someone who was?
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its called habeas corpus...
 
puffpuffPASSEDOUT said:
So lately ive been reading up on what Obama has been doing, and how other people feel about his actions. ..Im starting to really wonder wtf is going on in this country. I grew up in the 80's and 90's and even though in the early 90's we were at war, things in America felt good. Basically no one cared what was going on becuase things werent all that bad. Hell pre-2000 life was really good. Businesses were starting left and right and everyone was making money. Then once Bush came to be president, and the war on terrorism began, and America was struck in the heart right at ground zero (9/11), it seems people have really began to become selfish and all about themselves, while the American government begins to control our lives MORE and MORE everyday.

Is this just a reaction to modern societies quest for individuality, and TRUE FREEDOM? ...Is that why the government is enforcing more and more laws to keep us in our place? ..Is it our lack of loyalty to the government that offends them? Have we truely fell for The governments rope-a-dope? ...DO WE EVEN HAVE FREEDOM ANYMORE?


The United States of America: The land of the FREE, and the home of the BRAVE. Does this still hold true?
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EVER HEARD THE TERM "SHEEPL":cry:
 
jrh72582 said:
Provide evidence for this loss of freedom. I don't mean some stupid Youtube video - show me evidence. What can you no longer do that you could previous to 9/11? I honestly don't even know what you're talking about.

When you say freedom, I think of existential notions of freedom, which NO ONE can take away. You always have the ability and the freedom to do most anything...so do it! So again, what do you want to do that you can no longer do since 9/11? Give an actual argument.

I always entertain conspiracy theories - hell, I'm a philosophy professor - but I haven't heard anything with meat on this thread.
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Heres the best answer i can give you...


The constant hire of new police and "private" security. Sure the population is growing but everytime i see a cop pull someone over what happens? 3-5 MORE cops show up. Hell i was pulled over once for my taillight fuse being blown and 4 cops showed up. I would esitmate that there is 3 times (maybe more) police on the streets since 9/11. Also to add the constant additions to the streets, like many many more toll roads, and speed cameras/red light cameras. Are these not an invasion of our privacy?

More police=More crime=more people in jail for non-violent crimes...

...i could go on and on about how the govt is more about control than freedom. Only the idea of freedom still exsists in this country, thing is alot of people still believe in it, so the govt sugar coats the truth OR LIES to get what they want.
 
puffpuffPASSEDOUT said:
Heres the best answer i can give you...


The constant hire of new police and "private" security. Sure the population is growing but everytime i see a cop pull someone over what happens? 3-5 MORE cops show up. Hell i was pulled over once for my taillight fuse being blown and 4 cops showed up. I would esitmate that there is 3 times (maybe more) police on the streets since 9/11. Also to add the constant additions to the streets, like many many more toll roads, and speed cameras/red light cameras. Are these not an invasion of our privacy?

More police=More crime=more people in jail for non-violent crimes...

...i could go on and on about how the govt is more about control than freedom. Only the idea of freedom still exsists in this country, thing is alot of people still believe in it, so the govt sugar coats the truth OR LIES to get what they want.
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So it was your freedom to run red lights before 9/11 and now "the man" has magically taken that away from you? Not saying i like those cameras, but the point had to be made.

And I'm not sure you can use a personal estimate as evidence for an argument...
 
dude get off your high horse. The fact that there is the patriot act, which keeps growing everyday, and the fact that there are atleast 3 times as many police patroling the streets of america. That should be evidence enough, what more do you need? ..personal evidence? ..ok my name is Rodney King. there is your evidence.
 
puffpuffPASSEDOUT said:
dude get off your high horse. The fact that there is the patriot act, which keeps growing everyday, and the fact that there are atleast 3 times as many police patroling the streets of america. That should be evidence enough, what more do you need? ..personal evidence? ..ok my name is Rodney King. there is your evidence.
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http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

In 2000 there were 654,601 officers employed in the United States

In 2001 that number was 659,104

In 2002 that number was 665,555

In 2003 that number was 663,796

..... In 2007 that number was 699,850

Doesn't seem to me that the number of cops "has at least tripled" since 9/11
 
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