Potassium Nitrates, Sulphates, and Phosphates... OH MY!

[smoote1987]

I have a question and i don't know where to start. I am using DWCS.

Here's what i have:

• Tap Water, ph adjusted to 5.8 from 6.8

Powder Nutrients

• Potassium Nitrate (KNO3, 250g)
• Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4, 250g)
• Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4, 250g)
• Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4, 250g)
• Plantex CSM+B (1.5% Magnesium (MG), 1.5% Magnesium (cheleted),0.10% Copper (Cu),7.0% Iron (Fe - cheleted), 2.0% Maganese (Mn - Cheleted), 0.06% Molybedenum (MO), 0.40% Zinc (Zn - cheleted), +B is an extra addition of Boron. Don't know how much.

The reason that i have these nutrients is because i also grow aquatic plants in my aquarium. It works great for them, they grow fast and lush. Also in the aquarium world potassium is the key to limiting algae growth. The fine details are a little fuzzy but it works by algae not using it and the plants using it very efficiently, thus the plants out compete the algae for nutrients. I follow PPS PRO a tried and true formula and dosing regimen with the nutrients.

So that brings me to my question, I got to thinking one day before i set up my hydro while researching nutrients and thought why not just use the nutrients i have for the aquarium? I mean they dissolve very readily in water, I probably have enough powder nutrients to fertilize a small pond, and they're made to limit algae growth, major perks right?

So, this is where i'm at, i don't know where to go from here. How much of each should i use? Are there any of the nutrients that i don't have to or need to use? How would you use these nutrients? I read somewhere that having more potassium in your nutrients will produce more males from seed than females, is that true? that Any help will be greatly appreciated

As a side note: I also have the water quality report for my area and would like to adjust the nutrient solution to work with the contents of the tap water but have no idea what to look for on it, like what the hell are chloramines... SUPER CHLORINE. Eventually after a few grows i am hoping to have the nutrients tailored to each strain i have trough testing but right now i'm mainly looking for a general hydroponic nutrient formula for veg and flower.

 

[smoote1987]

I asked my questions directly to another grower already, he pointed me in the right direction, but i still haven't been able to answer my questions. no one wants to give it a shot and offer some help?

 

[smoote1987]

Well i wish i would have gotten a response, but thats ok i finally typed the right search into google and found what i wanted. So for those who might want to try buying their own dry hydroponic nutrients in bulk and mix their own fertilizer on the cheap Here is what i found:

Here is a recipe to create your own hydroponic plant nutrients mix. In the table below the following apply: '1 teaspoon = 1 t', '1 tablespoon = 1 T' and I calculate '1 t' to be equal to 10 grams. I have not personally tried this recipe so I can make no guarantees as to whether it will work or not. Make it and use it at your own risk - or should I say at the risk of your plants... In any event here it is:


Chemical, Dry Ounces, Grams, Nutrient Added
Sodium Nitrate, 12.5, 355, Nitrogen
Potassium Sulphate, 4, 113, Potassium, Sulphur
Super Phosphate, 5, 142, Phosphate, Calcium
Magnesium Sulphate,3.5, 100, Magnesium, Sulphur
Iron Sulphate, 2, Iron,

Mix all ingredients very well and store in an air-tight container. When needed use '1 t' for each gallon of water. Be careful with your measurements or you could very well create a mixture toxic to your plants. As for trace elements, these are usually accidental by-products of commercial fertilizers so here is another recipe solely for trace elements:


Chemical, Amount
Manganese Sulphate,1 t
Boric Acid powder, 1 t
Zinc Sulphate, .5 t
Copper Sulphate, .5 t

Mix together well and store in another air-tight container. When needed add '.5 t' to 1 quart water and mix well. Add 1 liquid oz of this solution to 3 gallons of your plant nutrients solution from above.


All of this info and more can be found here: http://www.hydroponics-at-home.com/plant-nutrients.html

I also found this recipe as well:

Plant nutrient is available from the hydro shop (hydroponics supplier). These concentrated nutrient solutions are diluted in water to make the hydro juice to feed the plants. Simple nutrient concentrates are easier and cheaper (from $8 for 750 ml.). But some of the nutrient chemicals precipitate out as flakes before use and are lost. Two part nutrient concentrates (from $20 for 2L.) don't have this problem. By separating nutrient chemicals they allow more nutrients to be added same amount of water.
Mixing the two part hydro juice. Half fill the nutrient tank, mix the required amount of concentrate Part A in the water. Fill the tank and mix required amount of concentrate Part B. Check the instructions on the containers before buying or using either type of nutrient concentrate.

List of the 16 elements all plants need to grow and concentrations in solution.

NAME ELEMENT PPM
Nitrogen, N, 96
Phosphorous, P, 48
Potassium, K, 246
Calcium, Ca, 123
Magnesium, Mg, 48
Sulfate, SO, 412
Iron, Fe, 3
Manganese, Mn, 0.5
Zinc, Zn, 0.08
Copper, Cu, 0.06
Boron, B, 0.5
Molybdenum, Mo, 0.1

I have only used per mixed nutrient solution and am yet to try the formulation below, so if you have any info could you please let me know about it, thanx.

The 16 elements in the table above are derived by plants from the atmosphere or from minerals in the soil, Dr. Alan Cooper proposed this formulation for his NFT hydroponic system, a typical nutrient solution.

The table below contains the ingredients to be added to 1000 liters of water, in practice the solution is concentrated in to 2 parts, preventing loses from chemical reactions. Fill two 10 liter plastic bottles with water mark that part "A" and part "B". Dissolve calcium nitrate and EDTA iron in part "A" and the rest of the ingredients in part "B".
Concentrates are used by adding 100mls.(cc's.) of each part per 10 liters of water. The concentration of the final solution can be measured with a EC meter (electrical conductivity meter),
this reads the conductivity of the nutrient solution.

Nutrient Chemicals, Weight in grams
Potassium dihydrogen phosphate, 263.00
Potassium nitrate, 583.00
Calcium nitrate, 1003.00
Magnesium sulphate, 513.00
EDTA iron, 79.00
Manganous sulphate, 6.10
Boric acid, 1.70
Copper sulphate, 0.39
Ammonium molybdate, 0.37
Zinc sulphate, 0.44

This recipe was found here: http://members.tripod.com/~busiweb/hydro/juice.htm

I also found this website:http://www.usu.edu/cpl/research_hydroponics3.htm

It contains several different and very very very informative hydroponics experiments conducted on wheat. The studies that i found the most interesting were the ones involving nutrient precipitation and nutrient solution ph. There were several others that gave me a lot of useful information but those are the two that stuck with me. Oh also the description of their hydroponics set-up was very detailed and sound pretty damn amazing.

I hope this helps some one on here but if not at least its posted here in case anyone other than my crazy self decides to mix their own ferts.

 

[aqua]

Thank for all of these formulas, and links.
Also i wonder to know Are there any experiences with aquatic plants nutrients in hydro, in this site.

 

[smoote1987]

Thank for all of these formulas, and links.
Also i wonder to know Are there any experiences with aquatic plants nutrients in hydro, in this site.

No problem i figured they could be useful here. I'm currently testing the first formula.

well i haven't been able to come across any. But when i really got into the research of it all i found that they're all pretty much the same nutrients between both mediums, hydroponics and aquatic plant nutrients.

 

[jigfresh]

No problem i figured they could be useful here. I'm currently testing the first formula.

well i haven't been able to come across any. But when i really got into the research of it all i found that they're all pretty much the same nutrients between both mediums, hydroponics and aquatic plant nutrients.

Mad scientist..

dude, your pretty hard core just for looking all that stuff up. That would be pretty nice if you could mix up your own stuff and have it work out good. Over time I would run two setups to compare your mix to some of the more affordable hydro nutrients... that would be fun.

you might want to keep your findings secret, I bet you can make some money selling "Smoote's Own Nutrients"

 

[smoote1987]

Mad scientist..

dude, your pretty hard core just for looking all that stuff up. That would be pretty nice if you could mix up your own stuff and have it work out good. Over time I would run two setups to compare your mix to some of the more affordable hydro nutrients... that would be fun.

you might want to keep your findings secret, I bet you can make some money selling "Smoote's Own Nutrients"

haha whoa talk about hard core you dredged up this thread huh?

I love to learn man. Thats a good idea with the comparison.

HmmMMMmmm... Smoote Inc. i like the sound of that. I did have a pretty lucrative ebay store back in the day.

Little update on that last post in this thread. First formula is working great all deficiencies stopped, all new leaves are perfect. Found that i was a little short on Manganese so i attributed and Mn deficiency on leaves disappeared. Just switched plant to flowering chamber. dumped and refilled dwc rez with the same nutrient formula. I will be watching for nutrient deficiencies and will adjust the formula as needed. I will post the results that i have recorded at the end of this plants flowering. I think i might start a grow journal to officially document the process.

 

[smoote1987]

Oh Jig,

Since youre dwc as well you might want to take a look at that website that has the hydroponic cultures on wheat that i linked in the third post. You might find it interesting, it definitely gave me a greater perspective on hydroponics. OH and their set up is sooooo nice!

 

[smoote1987]

I would like to edit the post i made in which the two recipes were stated. In the first recipe in which the author of said recipe states that he estimates 1 teaspoon to be 10 grams is wrong. One tea spoon is much closer to being 5 grams.

Consequently i have been using the first recipe for a while now and thought that i had a few different deficiencies, however upon doing the necessary research to figure out how to calculate the ppm of a solution i found that my ppm was way above normal in the 2600 - 3000 ppm range and have actually been experiencing what i have now decided to be nutrient burn.

here is a picture of said burn, it is on all of the older leaves. All of the new leaves look fine but some are deformed. Does anyone think that it is not nutrient burn? Also should i flush or could i just wait it out, what would be the side effects or consequences of not flushing?

Also i read that an excess of nutrients can cause deformed growth, which would explain why my clones have started to show deformed growth. Is this true?

Here's the link the ppm calculator i used:

http://www.unitconversion.org/concentration-solution/grams-per-liter-to-parts-per-million-ppm-conversion.html

I use a total of 15 grams of nutrients to 1.5 gallons of water as per the instructions of the recipe.

If any one sees anything amiss please let me know and thanks for any help, it is greatly appreciated.