another EPIC FAILURE

[Parker]

Screw Obama and Bush, pretty much every President in our history ever. Think this thread started though cause of the immigration bill. Someone then mentioned Illegals cost the government billions in medical expense. Bogus statement. In fact the amount they cost us in medical and all the other public services they utilize is nothing compared to the amount they DONATE to our government in paid taxes. The real enemy is the mother fuckers taking all our money right now and nationalizing private debt. Don't be steered into another scapegoat or distraction. Be smarter fuck, its not that hard.

I agree with most of this post but you have to realize "the amount they DONATE to our government in paid taxes" would also be paid by legals since they would be doing the same job. AND those legals would now be working and not drawing unemployment. Of course I'm refering to the illegals who have the fake id not the ones getting paid cash which puts zero tax money in the bank.

 

[livesoul]

I agree with most of this post but you have to realize "the amount they DONATE to our government in paid taxes" would also be paid by legals since they would be doing the same job. AND those legals would now be working and not drawing unemployment. Of course I'm refering to the illegals who have the fake id not the ones getting paid cash which puts zero tax money in the bank.

The part about other people doing those jobs is a common argument. HOWEVER, thats just some random statement that kinda makes sense but really DOES NOT. Whats preventing "legal" citizens from going to get those jobs? You think the employers would prefer to hire illegals and risk their organizations when they could just as easily hire "legal" citizens? No. Especially in todays economic environment. Getting after illegals is a scape goat tactic. How about we bring up the overseas outsourcing of jobs. Or is that ok because those are the jobs we don't mind giving away. Our jobs are being "legally" stolen. Illegals are essential to our country. But don't worry about it. The LEGAL citizens, leaders of our country, are driving us into a third world country anyways.

 

[Goldy]

i believe the way its works is that you vote to keep the worst guy out..not the best in.

 

[livesoul]

I agree with most of this post but you have to realize "the amount they DONATE to our government in paid taxes" would also be paid by legals since they would be doing the same job. AND those legals would now be working and not drawing unemployment. Of course I'm refering to the illegals who have the fake id not the ones getting paid cash which puts zero tax money in the bank.

Also, no it wouldn't because the amount they donate is as large as it is because they aren't refunded any of it. Legal citizens would pay little to no taxes and be refunded the amount they paid.

 

[Parker]

Also, no it wouldn't because the amount they donate is as large as it is because they aren't refunded any of it. Legal citizens would pay little to no taxes and be refunded the amount they paid.

It depends on what is claimed. Not everyone gets a refund. You also have to keep in mind the other problems that comes with illegals. Crime goes up and schools get overcrowed, causing education to suffer.

 

[Parker]

The part about other people doing those jobs is a common argument. HOWEVER, thats just some random statement that kinda makes sense but really DOES NOT. Whats preventing "legal" citizens from going to get those jobs? .

The pay scale, compared to 4 years ago, is lower in jobs illegals are hired to do. Landscaping, Hospitality (restaurants and hotels) and unskilled construction are examples.

You think the employers would prefer to hire illegals and risk their organizations when they could just as easily hire "legal" citizens? No. .

The employers are the ones profiting the most from having to pay lower wages.

Especially in todays economic environment. Getting after illegals is a scape goat tactic. How about we bring up the overseas outsourcing of jobs. Or is that ok because those are the jobs we don't mind giving away. Our jobs are being "legally" stolen. Illegals are essential to our country. But don't worry about it. The LEGAL citizens, leaders of our country, are driving us into a third world country anyways.

I agree that not enough is being done to keep our jobs from going overseas but I have not seen proof that illegals are essential to our economy. How did we get along before the influx?

 

[hom36rown]

There isn't data for that, but they don't actually cost more than they give us. Even if they aren't paying state or federal tax they're still hit by every other tax etc like sales taxes and such and without them many industries like farming which needs pickers would go tits up. They keep things working in that respect and they spend most of what they earn right here so the money's not all just being shipped to their families in mexico. Most of the jobs they get are jobs you'd never want to do and that couldn't earn people enough to pay their morgages anyway. Shit do you want to go pick strawberries?

the unemployment rate is only getting worse. I think many americans would pick strawberries if they were low on options, and that may be the case for many soon enough. We already have plenty of immigrants to fill those jobs as it is though, we do not need to put another 12 million on the fast track to citizenship. And immigrants do not just take the jobs we do not like. Where I live, every single fast food position, every single one of them is filled by someone who can barely speak english. Granted, working at McDonalds is not the best job in the world, but it definitely is not that bad that it not good enough for americans. Ive wroked at mcdonalds as a teenager. And thats how it should be, McDonalds should be filled with teenagers, not immigrants. Besides, Its not as if obama is doing this so the farming industry does not go tits up, like I said we have no shortage of migrant workers, he is just doing this so Acorn can have a new onslaught of recruits.

 

[livesoul]

The pay scale, compared to 4 years ago, is lower in jobs illegals are hired to do. Landscaping, Hospitality (restaurants and hotels) and unskilled construction are examples.

Right...and so it seems like we are in agreement? I mean cause the work still needs to get done.

The employers are the ones profiting the most from having to pay lower wages.

Actually minimum wage is still paid. I believe the real benefit to employers comes from...employees not complaining about benefits, asking for increase in wages, asking for improved workplace environment, safety and condition, etc...

I agree that not enough is being done to keep our jobs from going overseas but I have not seen proof that illegals are essential to our economy. How did we get along before the influx?

There is no sudden influx, its just in the news a lot more and so it seems like a big sudden issue. In fact immigration has decreased significantly in the past year, due to the reduced opportunities here obviously.

 

[Parker]

Actually minimum wage is still paid. I believe the real benefit to employers comes from...employees not complaining about benefits, asking for increase in wages, asking for improved workplace environment, safety and condition, etc...

Chicken Plants love to hire illegals. The conditions are unsafer than most places to work so when an illegal gets hurt the higherups know there is a minimal risk of a claim.

There is no sudden influx, its just in the news a lot more and so it seems like a big sudden issue. In fact immigration has decreased significantly in the past year, due to the reduced opportunities here obviously.

Agreed also I think it depends on which state, the southwest gets hit harder by the problem imo.

 

[stringtheory]

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
Thomas Jefferson "


Wonderful words. Thanks for the inspiring quotes. Unfortunately what we call a democracy is voting for a two party system. This is why nothing will ever change until this is stopped.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

There isn't data for that, but they don't actually cost more than they give us. Even if they aren't paying state or federal tax they're still hit by every other tax etc like sales taxes and such and without them many industries like farming which needs pickers would go tits up. They keep things working in that respect and they spend most of what they earn right here so the money's not all just being shipped to their families in mexico. Most of the jobs they get are jobs you'd never want to do and that couldn't earn people enough to pay their morgages anyway. Shit do you want to go pick strawberries?

Just for the record I only bitched about the silly bush vs obama talk because of how pointless it is and how horrible it affects your life if your hobby is something like that which always just focuses you on shit that bugs you or pisses you off or drives you nuts.

I completely understand why political threads are worthwhile in general, just not this kind of under the magnifying glass scrutiny day after day after day after day.

Talking about immigration or foreign policy or how our entire country is corrupted by lobyists and our failed two party system, how we need a complete political reboot? That's one thing but to scrutinize the news every single day looking for the slightest things you don't like... Not a healthy way to live in my opinion.

I'm as mad as anyone about all this other shit, but I rarely think about it and decided I will continue to enjoy my life as much as possible given my chronic pain and not worry about it until the riots start and then I'll get back in the game.

Actually the cost more than they give us. In case you forgot a good portion of them send their wages back to their home countries, depriving the local economies of that money.

In effect they are a bunch of thieving barbarians.

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes, they send a PORTION of what they make back home. However, you are discounting the service provided for the salaries. Once you EARN your money, it is yours to do with what you please....no?


out.

 

[ViRedd]

Can't we all just agree? Different president, same fist up The President's ass.

Good statement, except you have it wrong. They both have their fists up OUR asses, our grandchildren's asses and our great grandchildren's asses.

Vi

 

[hydrohombre]

I think I have the perfect way of explaining what this is similar to.

Giving illegal immigrants citizenship, or making it absurdly easy for them to get citizenship (same diff), is like telling a house robber that while it's horribly wrong for them to rob houses they are still going to be able to keep the stolen loot.

Or it's like giving a rapist a slap on the wrist, and then telling them that they are going to be able to enslave the person that they were raping.

Totally, and completely absurd.

Ok robbing and raping are way diffrent then crossing a border illegally. Growing marijuana is illegal too but we dont seem to think thats bad at all, do we (well I dont) I agree that not all should get a free pass but the people that made the U.S their home and have been here for years and pay taxes you dont have to have a social to get a tax ID # ,which really doesn't help because you get 0 dollars back because your not legal you get no work insurance work crazy hours (but i guess they like it) Well not all is good but not all is that bad

 

[ViRedd]

I am actually starting to think we may have been duped by Obama.

Well I'll be damned Med! Even though you're WAY late ... welcome to the party.

Vi

 

[TeaTreeOil]

Good statement, except you have it wrong. They both have their fists up OUR asses, our grandchildren's asses and our great grandchildren's asses.

Vi

I don't see how one excludes the other.

More so complimentary... by proxy.

 

[max420thc]

I don't want to kick him out... i want him to be prepared!!! Hillary Clinton was very very right...the Presidency doesn't leave room for "on the job training". So far, that is all I see.

No, leave him there but get rid of that horrid horrid Congress. Obama needs to work a bit harder, and read a few books on economics.


out.

marc faber was explaining the differnt thought and schools of economics on TV just the other day. such as the austrian school of economics.

he said obama is of the zimbabwean school of economics . he said he studied under mugabe

 

[CrackerJax]

I don't think he has EVER studied economics.

out.

 

[bicycle racer]

give some time. by the standard of job judgement based on time im seeing. i would assume most people have a rare 8 year memory loss disorder maybe new to u.s. citizens lol.

 

[TeaTreeOil]

I don't think he has EVER studied economics.

out.

Obama Or Marc? I think Obama has a firm grasp on the subject.

What do you think about Obama and the economy, in one word?