Medical Care, Will you be able to get it?

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Healthcare is one of the main reasons I love living in Canada. Sometimes you gotta wait about an hour to see a doctor at a hospital, but clinics you can see a dr right away. Healthcare for all, poor, rich, white, black, purple, green blue whatever.



Wouldn't that be nice?
Yes, and despite the fact that you don't see yourself paying for it, because of the effort your government has gone through to make it appear that it is free, make no mistake, you are PAYING FOR IT.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, and shit rolls down hill, so just because you think the "rich" are paying for your healthcare in all actuality you or others like you are the ones that are stuck paying for it. Either due to slower economic growth, lower wages, or lesser opportunity to advance.
 
Yes, and despite the fact that you don't see yourself paying for it, because of the effort your government has gone through to make it appear that it is free, make no mistake, you are PAYING FOR IT.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, and shit rolls down hill, so just because you think the "rich" are paying for your healthcare in all actuality you or others like you are the ones that are stuck paying for it. Either due to slower economic growth, lower wages, or lesser opportunity to advance.
I would rather pay a higher tax knowing I'm covered, then pay no tax at all and give my money to some fatcat insurance company. At worst if you don't need or see a doctor your taxes go to other things ie social programs which I have no problem with.

Point is everyone has healthcare no matter what. Wouldn't the USA be a better country because of it?
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
I would rather pay a higher tax knowing I'm covered, then pay no tax at all and give my money to some fatcat insurance company. At worst if you don't need or see a doctor your taxes go to other things ie social programs which I have no problem with.

Point is everyone has healthcare no matter what. Wouldn't the USA be a better country because of it?
So you'd rather give your money to a fat cat bureaucrat.

There's no difference, except for the fact that the Insurance Companies aren't making you pay at the point of a gun.

Why don't you go and see what kind of compensation all your bureaucrats are receiving.

Or better yet,

How much does the Prime Minister of Canada make?

Or how much does the average Government (National, even though Canada isn't a Nation, just an Autonomous Territory of the UK) Employee make?

How much does the average Private Sector employee in Canada make?

Your vaunted National Insurance is probably 2 - 3x as expensive as it really should be because your government employees are making more than a private sector employee would be making, and are getting more in benefits.

National Healthcare is a stupid short-sighted idea.

Better would be just to get government completely out of the equation.
 
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So you'd rather give your money to a fat cat bureaucrat.

There's no difference, except for the fact that the Insurance Companies aren't making you pay at the point of a gun.

Why don't you go and see what kind of compensation all your bureaucrats are receiving.

Or better yet,

How much does the Prime Minister of Canada make?

Or how much does the average Government (National, even though Canada isn't a Nation, just an Autonomous Territory of the UK) Employee make?

How much does the average Private Sector employee in Canada make?

Your vaunted National Insurance is probably 2 - 3x as expensive as it really should be because your government employees are making more than a private sector employee would be making, and are getting more in benefits.

National Healthcare is a stupid short-sighted idea.

Better would be just to get government completely out of the equation.
ok when you have kids and a wife, you will change your mind.

better would be to get the government out of the equation? You mean anarchy, or just out of healthcare?
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Gee, I'd sure like to be able to have health care. I've had stomach problems for years now, but I can't afford to do the tests, the hospital stay, etc.I wait an hour to get into the doc's office anyway.He's chatty.
 
Gee, I'd sure like to be able to have health care. I've had stomach problems for years now, but I can't afford to do the tests, the hospital stay, etc.I wait an hour to get into the doc's office anyway.He's chatty.

I'm pretty sure most of us would like to be able to go to a doctor if we were sick or hurt. Better yet how about if your kid fell ill? I guess watching him/her die is much better then paying a higher tax.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Well, luckily the kids are insured, but we are not.I have to pay out of pocket for my stuff though, and I have prescriptions I renew every month.A lot of the time, I treat folks with natural remedies.If it ever comes to the point where there is no healthcare or doctors to be found, I can give intramuscular injections,clean wounds,and help with birthing, lol.
I'm pretty sure most of us would like to be able to go to a doctor if we were sick or hurt. Better yet how about if your kid fell ill? I guess watching him/her die is much better then paying a higher tax.
 

BirdTooth

Well-Known Member
If it ever comes to the point where there is no healthcare or doctors to be found, I can give intramuscular injections,clean wounds,and help with birthing, lol.
More people should have those skills. People are just being complacent by ignoring their value, particularly first aid. If more people would rely on themselves first and resort to professional care only after they determine that nobody in their community can help with what they need maybe the medical system wouldn't be so strained.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I agree.I don't believe you have to go to the doc for every sniffle, nor get every vaccine.It's called an immune system.:bigjoint:
More people should have those skills. People are just being complacent by ignoring their value, particularly first aid. If more people would rely on themselves first and resort to professional care only after they determine that nobody in their community can help with what they need maybe the medical system wouldn't be so strained.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Government is a poor choice for health care. Private companys do it better, For less. Its hard to be a principled Libritarian when faced with the "do you just let them die" question. Liberals have points its just that government is almost always the worst solution to the problems liberals want solved.

Liberals do not believe that private companies can be principled and do not think people will take care of eachother. Conservatives don't care if companys are principled only that they make money, at all costs. And want people to Give to make up the diffrence. Libritarians think That companys can be made to be principled if held accountable for their actions and are made to compete. Libritarians feel that charitable giving is the best way to have health care.

Our current system, economicly speaking, has granted special privledge to select company and unfairly balenced the field agienst any competition. This is why Libritarians will say we do not have Lazy fair or whatever that French shit is, economics. We have economic fascism, literally a marrage of Buisness and Government. Liberals and Libritarians can both see the problem here. However we come to diffrent solutions on how to fix it. Liberals want to expand Government Power. Not illogical given the current system of fiat currency. That is why Libritarians argue for a commodities backed currency, and bank competition.

The problem with Liberalism is it is imposed on people who don't want it at gun point. I do not want to be forced into your system. Libritarians would never point a gun at you to take by force what is yours. Liberals will, that is the sticking point for me.
 

GrowTech

stays relevant.
I know people who work in the health insurance industry, and Sicko was full of lies and distortions. The reason you don't often hear much rebuttal over claims is because of HIPAA laws.
 

GrowTech

stays relevant.
Healthcare is one of the main reasons I love living in Canada. Sometimes you gotta wait about an hour to see a doctor at a hospital, but clinics you can see a dr right away. Healthcare for all, poor, rich, white, black, purple, green blue whatever.



Wouldn't that be nice?
Yeah but most doctors come to the USA where they make a lot of money and get much more vacation time. :)
 

BirdTooth

Well-Known Member
Government is a poor choice for health care. Private companys do it better, For less. Its hard to be a principled Libritarian when faced with the "do you just let them die" question. Liberals have points its just that government is almost always the worst solution to the problems liberals want solved.

Liberals do not believe that private companies can be principled and do not think people will take care of eachother. Conservatives don't care if companys are principled only that they make money, at all costs. And want people to Give to make up the diffrence. Libritarians think That companys can be made to be principled if held accountable for their actions and are made to compete. Libritarians feel that charitable giving is the best way to have health care.

Our current system, economicly speaking, has granted special privledge to select company and unfairly balenced the field agienst any competition. This is why Libritarians will say we do not have Lazy fair or whatever that French shit is, economics. We have economic fascism, literally a marrage of Buisness and Government. Liberals and Libritarians can both see the problem here. However we come to diffrent solutions on how to fix it. Liberals want to expand Government Power. Not illogical given the current system of fiat currency. That is why Libritarians argue for a commodities backed currency, and bank competition.

The problem with Liberalism is it is imposed on people who don't want it at gun point. I do not want to be forced into your system. Libritarians would never point a gun at you to take by force what is yours. Liberals will, that is the sticking point for me.
Where are these libertarians that perfectly embody the core of that philosophy with their every decision?
Where are their realistic plans for dealing with our economy?

Communism looks pretty damn good on paper too.

"Companies made to be princpled"
This is an empty statement. You are saying that libertarians are somehow so great for wanting this?
It's a fantasy. Companies are already principled: they run off the principle that if they don't make money they fail. What "incentive" do you think is going to fall into place to change that?
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
I would rather pay a higher tax knowing I'm covered, then pay no tax at all and give my money to some fatcat insurance company. At worst if you don't need or see a doctor your taxes go to other things ie social programs which I have no problem with.

Point is everyone has healthcare no matter what. Wouldn't the USA be a better country because of it?
Some Canadians with money come to the US instead of waiting.

If the USA wanted the best Health Care System possible they should look at the Dutch Health Care system for starters imo.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Some Canadians with money come to the US instead of waiting.

If the USA wanted the best Health Care System possible they should look at the Dutch Health Care system for starters imo.
Best is an arbitrary term. Your best is most assuredly not my best, just as my best is not your best.

So, that being said, what do you mean by "Best"?
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
ok when you have kids and a wife, you will change your mind.

better would be to get the government out of the equation? You mean anarchy, or just out of healthcare?
No, I don't think I'll change my mind, because just as I see it being MY RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF, I will see it as being my responsibility to take care of my wife and children.

Now, if on the other hand the government screws up the economy so badly that I have no choice but to give up my principles and morals.... well I don't know what I'll do. I can't actually place myself in a position (honestly) where I'd be confronted between having to stand fast with my morals and watch some one I care about suffer because of those morals.

I'd like to be able to say that I'd find a way to stand fast with my morals, but (despite the accusations to the contrary) I don't see myself being to stand idly by while some one I care about suffers, if all it takes is me surrendering to help them.

Tough question...

:: prays that he'll never have to face it ::
 

medicineman

New Member
Government is a poor choice for health care. Private companys do it better, For less. Its hard to be a principled Libritarian when faced with the "do you just let them die" question. Liberals have points its just that government is almost always the worst solution to the problems liberals want solved.

Private companies, such as HMOs make decisions affecting the patirnts health. (like denying life saving treatments). Shouldnt the patients care be left up to a Dr? Private companies are all about the Benjamins.

Liberals do not believe that private companies can be principled and do not think people will take care of eachother. Conservatives don't care if companys are principled only that they make money, at all costs. And want people to Give to make up the diffrence. Libritarians think That companys can be made to be principled if held accountable for their actions and are made to compete. Libritarians feel that charitable giving is the best way to have health care.

How do you hold a private company accountable for their actions? do you mean with regulations and rules? those are the exact things libertarians are against. Private enterprize has only one principle, the bottom line.

Our current system, economicly speaking, has granted special privledge to select company and unfairly balenced the field agienst any competition. This is why Libritarians will say we do not have Lazy fair or whatever that French shit is, economics. We have economic fascism, literally a marrage of Buisness and Government. Liberals and Libritarians can both see the problem here. However we come to diffrent solutions on how to fix it. Liberals want to expand Government Power. Not illogical given the current system of fiat currency. That is why Libritarians argue for a commodities backed currency, and bank competition.

I agree with you on the conflagration of government and business, we are currently living in an oligarchic plutocracy. I doubt there are enough commodities to back the money, even if we tried going to that. Also, I think we've all seen how the banks compete under the lasse-faire venue of capitalism. I believe it was their greed that put us in this fix. Lasse fair capitalism has got us to this brink of destruction. As long as greed exists, we the people need regulations and rules on government and capitalists.

The problem with Liberalism is it is imposed on people who don't want it at gun point. I do not want to be forced into your system. Libritarians would never point a gun at you to take by force what is yours. Liberals will, that is the sticking point for me.
Why are all the bad things in government alluded to liberals. "W" sure as hell wasn't a liberal, and he did the most agregious things against our freedoms and others around the world. I personally wouldn't stick a gun into someones face and demand their money, OK, maybe VI, ~LOL~. But really, we've not had a liberal government for a long time, yet taxation still exists, and rightly so. Without taxation, this country would be strictly owners and slaves, even more than it is today. The real crux of the problem is this. Do you weant an owners and slaves country? This is the libertarian mantra. You'll find very few intelligent poor people that are libertarians. the ones that are, surely don't understand the game is rigged.
 

medicineman

New Member
No, I don't think I'll change my mind, because just as I see it being MY RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF, I will see it as being my responsibility to take care of my wife and children.

Now, if on the other hand the government screws up the economy so badly that I have no choice but to give up my principles and morals.... well I don't know what I'll do. I can't actually place myself in a position (honestly) where I'd be confronted between having to stand fast with my morals and watch some one I care about suffer because of those morals.

I'd like to be able to say that I'd find a way to stand fast with my morals, but (despite the accusations to the contrary) I don't see myself being to stand idly by while some one I care about suffers, if all it takes is me surrendering to help them.

Tough question...

:: prays that he'll never have to face it ::
You must be one ignorant young guy, one with no medical needs. Wait untill you get older, thats when the "need" part of medical kicks in. Just like one saves when they are younger for retirement (If possible and they make enough to have a savings plan) The young must pay a portion just like the rest of us so when they get old and sick, they'll have coverage. Universal health care is the only answer. Profit and Healthcare are oxymorons.
 
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